A friendly hello

[Matt Stone]

RyuShiKan,

Shuri is the name of a city in Okinawa and the name that was given to describe certain styles that supposedly came from that area.

Including Shuri Te. There are many Shuri Te organizations around the world. If you chose to ignore this simple fact by closing your eyes that is entirely up to you.

Please list some. When I researched the Shuri-te school I attended, in online fora as well as for websites, I was informed by quite a number of long term karateka that Shuri-te, as a style, simply did not make it out of Okinawa. It was absorbed into the styles that left Okinawa to become famous in the last century.

Sorry but I regard your friends credentials to be just as fabricated as yours.

…the chip on your shoulder must be heavy indeed if you pick a conflict with everyone who doesn't fit into your narrow definition of the world. I feel sorry for you.

While I can only speak for my own opinions, RyuShiKan is not the only one to find curious inconsistencies with the associations you are a member of or have received recognition through. Your background, though varied, is primarily Okinawan (based on your own statements). Why then are you a member of, and so active a proponent for, a Korean Hapkido and Yudo (Judo) association? Clarification would perhaps enlighten us all...

As many members here already know I absolutely can not stand frauds in the martial arts and expose them whenever and wherever I see them.

You have exposed nothing. You have merely run off at the mouth.

By stepping into a public forum, your activities, your associations, your existence has been exposed to the sight of many beyond your particular locale. By putting such information on the Internet for all to access, you further open yourself up to criticism. Your online behavior, the way you respond to comments (favorable and unfavorable), the method you use to post simple comments will all be judged one way or another.

You're just another "over ranked Yank" that just happend to stray into my sights.

Ahh, the truth comes out....racial profiling and prejudice. An American or Canadian or Brazilain or Russian or Israeli or anything non-Asian is not worthy to hold any type of title or high rank. God forbid we actually start a new system! That right is reserved ONLY for Asians....with a couple of years of training in a dojo but NOT for a 'Yank' with more than three decades of actual combat experience with real live enemies. Hate to burst your bubble sport but NOBODY has the market cornered . Again I consider you the typical traditionalist, elitist snob who looks down their nose at anything or anyone different than themselves. You have NO idea what the Martial Way is all about!

You attempted to level the accusation at RyuShiKan that he was making comments without the benefit of firsthand knowledge of you and your art, you too fall into the same accusation. Do you know of Taika Oyata? Are you informed about what kind of person RyuShiKan is? No on both counts. If you are going to attempt to take the moral highground, avoid falling victim to making the same comments you are accusing others of having made.

You and some of your friends got together and started a mutual dan rank giving society that wouldn't stand up under the scrutiny of a MA organization in China, Okinawa or Japan.

Again this is just you beating your chest and throwing sand in the air. And you are showing once again your ignorance and immaturity. Lets take a look at something substantial, which seems to be a foriegn concept for you. The Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association is one of the oldest in this country. It is also one of the most respected anywhere in the world. It's founder Jack 'Pappasan' Stern hosted Mas Oyama on different occasions. It is one of the elite organizations on this planet. They are more legitimate than you and stand up to scrutiny very well. Pappasan himself is flying in this month to teach at a seminar that I and my associaties are hosting. ALL of the profits are going to benefit under priviledged children who have been through critical surgeries. He is doing this free of charge and on his own dime so to speak because it is for such a cause. That is the type of Martial artist that I am used to dealing with. Someone who is humble and gives not the first thought as to himself before others. Not arrogant self-proclaimed know-it-alls such as yourself who pass judgement on those they don't even know.

As stated above, why do you persist in your vehement support of an organization that you do not advertise having had training in? You promote your rank in Pangai-noon and Shuri-te, but rather than being supportive of Okinawan karate organizations, you are a rabid supporter of a Korean Hapkido and judo-variant organization…

As stated before, the USADR was in existance long before I every came in contact with them. The do not promote, they recognize Dan ranks given proper credentials. AND they cut through the political, discriminatory BS that you have been spewing the last couple of days. If they chap your hide...get some vasaline. They don't charge hundred's of dollars for something someone has already earned...or was prevented from earning through predjudice people such as you seem to be (by your own words).

The USADR provides rank recognition to people who do not study the same system(s) as those evaluating them. I study Yiliquan, Modern Arnis, Ryu Te Karate and soon Shinto Muso-ryu Jojutsu. Can you evaluate my training in those arts and provide me with rank promotion when you do not know the promotion standards or requirements, nor do you have any training in those arts? If you do, even once, then you are selling the rankings you are trying to convince others you are just “recognizing.” Whether that is your intention or not, it is what you are doing essentially. If someone is a victim of so-called “political, discriminatory BS,” I would suspect there to be more to the situation than some overbearing Big Brother organization just trying to keep some poor student under their cruel heel. Organizations have standards for a reason, and sometimes individuals don’t get promoted as high or as quickly as they would like. Tough. They should be less concerned with rank and more concerned with training. Perhaps if they trained half as hard as they work to try to get promoted, the promotions would no longer be a concern…

The Agni Kickboxing Association of Iran is a national affiliated organization rich in traditional pride. They have produced some top notch Martial Artists...this can NOT be disputed. They have offered me membership and professional recognition as I am openly invited to their tournements. Same with the others mentioned on my site. Gee...that sure is sinister isn't it. Imagine that, other Martial Artists extending professional courtesy. Perhaps you need some education in this.

So by saying they have offered you “professional recognition,” what does that really mean? Did they grant you rank or honorary rank in their association? Did they give you rank in Agni Kickboxing because you are a Pangai-noon and Shuri-te yudansha and they felt you were good enough to merit an equivalent rank in their system? If this isn’t the case, please clarify what “professional recognition” means.

So no, my 'friends' didn't GIVE me anything except earned respect. The organizations I belong to are legitimate. NO 'dan' factories anywhere in sight despite your arrogant presumptions.

The respect you earn isn’t contained in certificates, titles, or organization positions. It is shown by they way they treat you, talk to you, or discuss you with others.

Well one thing is for sure I don't promote people over the internet like this Zhao Dai Wei and his pals do.

I have never promoted anyone over the internet. Neither has GM Dunn. They have the opportunity to test with us in person or via video tape if they are unable financially to travel to us. In such a case we have a vast resourse of Martial Arts instructors to draw on who will gladly step in-AT NO CHARGE-to test the individual or draw up test requirements as needed for a particualar style. As of this writting we have not had anyone test with us, therefore we remain a recognition-oriented organization for those with proper credentials and references. But we WILL provide a testing opportunity to those that need it. People have circumstances come up such as school closings, instructor moves away or passes on etc. There is absolutely no reason to force someone to fly over to the 'home' country to test or to charge them hundreds or thousands of dollars for the 'priviledge' to test. NOt when we have fine instructors who will stand up and assist the little guy who is being jerked around by greed or racial predjudice. Another case of you running your gator about that which you know nothing about or have a closed mind to.

How can you promote someone not of your style? How can you recognize someone at a grade higher than the one they were issued by competent members of their previous art, especially if you have no training in that art? It isn’t a question of having a closed mind, it is a question of legitimacy. I do not study Brazilian Jujutsu, so therefore I have no right nor ability to judge someone’s competency in that art. I do not study Krav Maga, Capoeira nor Hung Gar, so I have absolutely no business whatsoever “recognizing” someone’s training in those arts, regardless of whatever situation they find themselves in.

To the rest here I thank you for your warmth and welcome. I humbly apologize that this nonsense had to go on and take up so much space. But where I come from, if a man runs his mouth becuase he has some personal issue, for whatever reason then the man he runs his mouth about is obliged to step up and make him accountable.

And where I come from, if a man makes public announcements of skills, credentials, titles and other such things, he is willing and able to make a full accounting of the same. If he doesn’t, or is simply reluctant to do so, then there are other issues at hand.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Yawn

No true. But I do know pure BS when I see it.

Sadly, it is true. And the only BS is what you've been shoveling. I came here for good hearted fellowship, you came here with hand waving and a chip on your shoulder.



I think others might disagree.

So? Perhaps you need a thumbs up from the audience, I do not. Those that may disagree with me are welcome to do so, provided they can be polite. You have hardly tried this. That is why I know you know nothing of the Martial Way.

Having overly high rank with only a few years train, as in your case

This is simply overt lying on your part, to which I am not suprised. Perhaps it is you that only has a few years, but I honestly doubt you even have that.

is a very American thing and not that common in Europe or in many other countries. It seems to be a phenomenon mostly prevalent in the US…..hence the term “Over Ranked Yank”.

Again your inexperience shows clearly. It is the Orient where buying a Dan began...namely Japan. It has happened in America as well as other countries...but it began in the East were one can buy a 6th Dan for $5000. Or is it common to be a Blue belt and six months later be sitting at the Master's table at a tournement with a 6th Dan? Or is it common to charge an Oriental from outside the school with less time in grade $100 for a 3rd Dan but $600 to the American who has actually assisted in teaching the classes for the Master? No, it is not an 'American' thing. It started long before from your neck of the woods. It is nothing more than racial predjudice on your part. And unprofessional.

The fact that you sell dan ranks over the Internet is proof enough.

Show us all here the Dan ranks I have 'sold' over the internet please. I would very much like to see them. If you make an accusation be prepared to back it up.

I already proved that you are connected to it.

Hmmm, I'm connected to the USADR in an honorary post. I don't receive any money. I've never promoted anyone through that organization as I have stated before. I have recognized people for that which they have already achieved. Your inuendos are not evidence. You seek merely to smear someone you don't know.

The dreaded and most feared “Internet Challenge”

Funny how you have quoted my reply only in part so as to make it appear out-of-context. You are a very weak man. Here lets take a look at the WHOLE quote,not just the selected bit for your smear campaign;

I have nothing I need to prove to you nor do I seek your approval in anything. I am quite sure I have much more real world experience and knowledge than you. If you feel you need to prove something to me, if you feel you need to take me to task you are always welcome to ask me out on the deck to see what I know or do not know. I will be most happy to provide you with where I teach if you every want to drop by. I will either meet you with open arms of friendship and fellowship or provide you with whatever opportunity you think you need to prove me false.

Lets take a real good look at that last part...you know..the one you left out on purpose to further your smear campaign;

I will be most happy to provide you with where I teach if you every want to drop by. I will either meet you with open arms of friendship and fellowship or provide you with whatever opportunity you think you need to prove me false.

Yes indeed, I can see why you are so upset...how dare I offer to greet you in friendship and fellowship. The deck time is there should you feel YOU need it. I offer you the opportunity to meet face to face, to get to know me and talk first hand about things and you turn it around for your hate agenda. You are the one who feels I'm inexperienced. You are the one who feels I am unqualified for the honors bestowed on me. You are the one with the ego. So if you need to prove me to your concept of me...I will be happy to take you to school. My grandfather told me never to say anything I can't back up. Its a shame yours did not do likewise.

 

[Matt Stone]

Again your inexperience shows clearly. It is the Orient where buying a Dan began...namely Japan. It has happened in America as well as other countries...but it began in the East were one can buy a 6th Dan for $5000. Or is it common to be a Blue belt and six months later be sitting at the Master's table at a tournement with a 6th Dan? Or is it common to charge an Oriental from outside the school with less time in grade $100 for a 3rd Dan but $600 to the American who has actually assisted in teaching the classes for the Master? No, it is not an 'American' thing. It started long before from your neck of the woods. It is nothing more than racial predjudice on your part. And unprofessional.

You seem to be very bitter about something dealing with some past experience with an Asian teacher. What organization did you find selling rank for $5000? I think such information would benefit everyone reading these posts. I know that Hatsumi’s Bujinkan has handed out disparate rankings for odd reasons, resulting in individuals with inappropriate promotions publicly advertising themselves to be something everyone else knows they aren’t. Perhaps selling rank began in Japan, but in true American style, belt mills have gone far beyond what happens in Japan. Perhaps you would enjoy disputing this with RyuShiKan and myself, but I would only ask you to provide the basis for your rebuttal; he and I both live/lived there. Have you?

Hmmm, I'm connected to the USADR in an honorary post. I don't receive any money. I've never promoted anyone through that organization as I have stated before. I have recognized people for that which they have already achieved. Your inuendos are not evidence. You seek merely to smear someone you don't know.

If they have already achieved something, why do they need your recognition? They have been recognized by their association/organization/school/instructor for what they learned. As I stated in my other recent post, if you have no knowledge of their art, you have no business “recognizing” anyone.

Yes indeed, I can see why you are so upset...how dare I offer to greet you in friendship and fellowship. The deck time is there should you feel YOU need it. I offer you the opportunity to meet face to face, to get to know me and talk first hand about things and you turn it around for your hate agenda. You are the one who feels I'm inexperienced. You are the one who feels I am unqualified for the honors bestowed on me. You are the one with the ego. So if you need to prove me to your concept of me...I will be happy to take you to school. My grandfather told me never to say anything I can't back up. Its a shame yours did not do likewise.

And there you have it. In attempting to defend your morally superior position, you have resulted in hurling a valid internet challenge. As Kaith pointed out, I doubt you will be flying to Japan to engage RyuShiKan, and I doubt RyuShiKan is planning on flying to Florida.

If you insist on maintaining the moral high ground, throwing down the gauntlet is a sure way to knock yourself off the pedestal you set yourself and your position upon.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Please take further discussion of this matter to e-mail.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[RyuShiKan]

This crap just cracks me up!

You are a determined and dedicated practicioner of the Martial Arts. You continue on with your training, only to find that your instructor won't or can't advance you………….Is the Master or Instructor playing favorites because your not making any money for him……….You help instruct and months later you find that students you taught now out rank you. If you have answered YES to any of these questions, then welcome to the United States of America's Martial Arts Dan Registry. We are an Organization for Documentation of Dan level rankings and advancement's, established for the individual Martial Artist and ALL Styles are welcome. We have no affiliation to any particular style or discipline. Politics to us is a four letter word.

And here I thought “serious” practioners didn’t give a hoot about dan ranks.
I know I don’t……….I could be kicked down to 10 kyu and could care less as long as I still got to train.

Why sell dan rank to people you have never seen over the Internet?
To make money of course!

How can someone grant dan ranks to someone outside of their syle?

Easy……sell it to people that feel they have been “cheated” (and most likely don’t deserve it) over the Internet!

This all reminds me of those bozos that sell University degrees over the Internet.

It’s a sad day when people actually buy into the fallacy that getting rank from someone you have never met over the Internet is actually worth something.
What’s even more disturbing is the people that try and make themselves out to be legit that are selling them………..sorry THAT is not the “martial way” that I was taught.

 

[A.R.K.]

Kaith Rustaz,

Your request concerning email will be honored on my part. I am done with the 'dueling banjo' routine with RyuShiKan.

Yiliquan1,

Why then are you a member of, and so active a proponent for, a Korean Hapkido and Yudo (Judo) association? Clarification would perhaps enlighten us all...

Because they are open to any Martial Artist regardless of style or rank. Because it is a wonderful fraternal organization in which I have enjoyed fellowship. I have trained in Chinese, Okinawan, British, Canadian and Israeli systems. This does not limit me to only fellowshipping with those particular groups. I like their organization, I like their members, I was invited so I accepted. I like the fact that a man of Pappasan's level will travel to teach a seminar that we will host for the benefit of children in need and wants nothing in return for his time.

Both you and your friend act as though I came in here on post number 1 yelling 'I'm the best' 'you all suck' 'call me grandmaster mac daddy'. You both [him more than you] where knee deep in me before I could say 'nice to meet you'.

You want to converse? Fine. You want me to interview before you to see if I'm worthy of your company...I'll simply say 'have a nice day' and go play with the other kids



The USADR provides rank recognition to people who do not study the same system(s) as those evaluating them.

I have already addressed this. I will refer any further questions to the organizations founder. His email is on the site. Its only fair for him to answer for himself if he's being attacked by any individual. I will answer for myself as to the two organizations that I have founded. Do you have any questions about the GCMAG or ILMAM?



The respect you earn isn’t contained in certificates, titles, or organization positions. It is shown by they way they treat you, talk to you, or discuss you with others.

I couldn't agree with you more. I have been overwhelmed with the courtesy and humility of these individuals. Helping me with children's charities. Introducing me to associates from around the world. By promoting my organization's to other Masters/Grandmasters around the world.

The world of Martial Arts is vast. I have been truly blessed to meet, train with, fellowship with men of incredible integrity, conviction and regard for their fellow man. So you see if anyone here simply doesn't like me or who I am inside or what I stand for I consider it their loss. I offered my hand and they slapped it. It will not keep me up at nights.

And where I come from, if a man makes public announcements of skills, credentials, titles and other such things, he is willing and able to make a full accounting of the same. If he doesn’t, or is simply reluctant to do so, then there are other issues at hand.

I have answered to the best of my ability. But again, I'm not interviewing for anyone's approval. I am who I am. I have been trained by some of the best people in the world in my opinion. I continually seek improvement in every area of my life. I give unto the Lord as I am lead. I teach for practically nothing because it is a joy. I have seen the results of my instruction prevent a date rape, an escape, a violent assualt etc in the men and women I have trained. To me their is nothing more rewarding as an instructor than to get a phone call from a student saying 'I'm safe...here's what happened...'.

My titles are used manly in coorspondence. I instruct my students to call me by my first name. I don't need my ego feed by such things. If someone gets bend out of shape about titles or positions others with vastly more experience have honored me with...well, honestly thats just to bad. If they wish to try to slander me or insult me with inuendo then it will simply fall on deaf ears as their opinion no longer has credibility with me. Again, I'll go play with the other kids.


You seem to be very bitter about something dealing with some past experience with an Asian teacher.

Not at all. And it was not my intention to portray this. My apologies. Yes I do know of many down right vulgar incidences first hand. But I will also say it is the world over. I do know of one American organization that you can buy a Judan for $450. That sucks and cheapens a life long accomplishment for the rest of us. But as you have said, its not the belt its the man and I agree. Probably why I very rarely wear a belt. But I also know of an Asian organization that descriminates against non-Asians. Thats life. You can be bitter or you can simply move on and associate with better people who aren't looking to rip you off.

If you insist on maintaining the moral high ground, throwing down the gauntlet is a sure way to knock yourself off the pedestal you set yourself and your position upon.

I am on the morale high ground. If you took greeting him with open arms in friendship or fellowship as anything other than that you are mistaken. I meant that from my heart. Same for you or any other member here. He had a chip on his shoulder from the git go. He was antagonistic from the git go. He was the self appointed Master of all. His claim is I don't know squat. So I made it known that I will not be hiding under a rock. But as I said, meet face-to-face, discuss differences openly is my first and best solution. I don't think he would accept a face to face invitation for a cup of coffee if he lived in the next town because of his rude behavior. Its one thing to slander someone you don't know from afar, quite another to have to look him in the eye while you cut him to pieces.

I'm here to make friendships and fellowship. If someone doesn't like me.....someone else will I bid you peace, I'm done with the 3rd degree.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
You seem to be very bitter about something dealing with some past experience with an Asian teacher.

Not at all. And it was not my intention to portray this. My apologies. Yes I do know of many down right vulgar incidences first hand. But I will also say it is the world over. I do know of one American organization that you can buy a Judan for $450. That sucks and cheapens a life long accomplishment for the rest of us.

Funny thing, there are more Soke’s and 10th dans in America than Japan.

 

[A.R.K.]

Funny thing, there are more Martial Artists in America than in Japan

 

[Matt Stone]

Really? How do you know?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Funny thing, there are more Martial Artists in America than in Japan

Odd how many of those same western bozos claim higher ranks than people that have trained longer in the Honbu dojo on a daily basis not to mention some of the the head instructors at the same honbu dojo in Japan/Okinawa too.

By the way, you never answered my question on where you got your ranks in Pangainoon.........since you claim it is 8th dan that would mean you have to get it from a higher rank than 8th dan........

 

[A.R.K.]

Same could be said the other way as well. Every country has its leaders and every country has its folks looking for the easy ride. One is not better than the other. Good is good and bad is bad.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Same could be said the other way as well. Every country has its leaders and every country has its folks looking for the easy ride. One is not better than the other. Good is good and bad is bad.

I see. So your "Internet dan factory" is catering to those that want the easy ride instead of putting in the sweat and determination it takes in a real dojo.

 

[A.R.K.]

Ric Martin won the gold IN Okinawa against an Okinawan. Matt Furey won a world championship in China against a Chinese. There are good folks from all countries. No one has a monopoly on the Martial Arts. That is one of the reasons it is so wonderful.

 

[A.R.K.]

RyuShiKan

I believe you were instructed to take posts of this type to email were you not?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Ric Martin won the gold IN Okinawa against an Okinawan. Matt Furey won a world championship in China against a Chinese. There are good folks from all countries. No one has a monopoly on the Martial Arts. That is one of the reasons it is so wonderful.

and??????? I fail to see how that answers my question.
I have won and lost tournaments before.........I have had Japanese, Okinawans, French, Germans, Spaniards, American, and Canadians all as my students………so what.

What I am saying is folks like you that claim higher ranks in styles than people that have trained at the “source” longer are not the ranks you claim.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

People, Enough!

Take it to email or PM, but in any event, take it off-board.

Everyone has made their points, repeatedly, and I don't see the sence in another dozen posts going around and around without a resolution in sight.

Take it off board.

Thank you.

 

[arnisador]

This thread is now locked.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-