3 levels of Hapkido techniques

[American HKD]

Greetings,

I was reading something and this came up and I think it's been tossed around a bit on this site but not clearly.

3 levels of Aikijujutsu or Diato Ryu 1. jujutsu, 2. aikijujutsu, 3. aiki no jutsu.

I'm thinking we do 1 & 2 in Hapkido and I think I can pick out most of these techniques.

The 3rd Aiki no jutsu is more like Uyesba'a Aikido?

In HKD is anyone taught like this and shown the distinct diiferance between all of these techniques and theories?

If I'm on track here anybody with a real knowledge about this subject
please comment.

 

[Disco]

Stuart, how would you categorize the differences between 1. jujutsu, 2. aikijujutsu, 3. aiki no jutsu ?

 

[Paul B]

I know you didn't ask me,but I'll give it a shot.....


I would first say that the obvious difference is in application.

Off the same attack....say...a same side grab..


The first..Jujutsu...is comprised of no,or very little "blending". I would say a more hands on approach. Striking is a major part of application. In Hapkido the "jujutsu" aspect would be all of our strikes.

Second...Aikijujutsu...Comprised of striking then locking. A "disruption'strike is delivered,than on to your choice of lock.

Thirdly...Aiki no jutsu or "Art of Aiki". You nailed it when comparing more to Aikido. Very dependant on "blending". I would say it is more reliant on your attackers intent. If one were to use pure blending/evasion to use the technique,with no strike...this would be Aiki no Jutsu. Definitely IMO the highest aspiration.

Some very good examples of this are in Mas Oyima's "The Hidden Roots of Aikido"...I think I have that right,but I'll have to look it up,so don't kill me,please.

 

[American HKD]

Stuart, how would you categorize the differences between 1. jujutsu, 2. aikijujutsu, 3. aiki no jutsu ?

We'll I would say

Jujutsu basically would be the straight form of jujutsu not using circular principles. ( look at book from George Kirby ) you'll see what I mean.

Aiki-Jutsu combines the locks, throws, etc. with circular principles as Hapkido is normally known for.

Lastly would be Aiki no Jutsu moves very much like Aikido using timing and Tai sabaki (body movements) and circling movements creating off balances from little to no contact with a opponent.

A cop was watching me do a small demo last week to get some students he comes up to me and says that looks like Aikido so I explained Aikido come more from what we do etc, etc. but it was interesting to hear what peoples perceptions are when they see the Art.

 

[Paul B]

I get you,Stuart.

Insert my "blending" in place of your "circular principles" to your last post and we're talking about the same thing.

I was never shown these "levels" in my Hapkido studies,though. Did you learn them from yours? Or just kinda figured it out for your self? Just Curious.

 

[American HKD]

I get you,Stuart.

Insert my "blending" in place of your "circular principles" to your last post and we're talking about the same thing.

I was never shown these "levels" in my Hapkido studies,though. Did you learn them from yours? Or just kinda figured it out for your self? Just Curious.

Figured it out!

 

[Paul B]

Thanks,Stuart!

How would you compare the resulting effect on your technique,as to when you first learned it? Thanks in advance.

 

[American HKD]

Paul

Can you re-phase your question I'm not sure what your looking for?

 

[Paul B]

Ok,that WAS kinda vague.

Sorry about that. I was wondering,since you figured this aspect out.....Do you tend to teach this aspect to your students? Or...say when you go over a technique you haven't practiced in a while,do you apply these principles to "alter" the technique a bit,and then teach it that way?

Basically what I am trying to babble out is ...Did figuring out these aspects make you re-evalueate your curriculum and how you go about teaching said curriculum? I think I just said the same thing twice...it's been a long week.lol

 

[American HKD]

Ok,that WAS kinda vague.

Sorry about that. I was wondering,since you figured this aspect out.....Do you tend to teach this aspect to your students? Or...say when you go over a technique you haven't practiced in a while,do you apply these principles to "alter" the technique a bit,and then teach it that way?

Basically what I am trying to babble out is ...Did figuring out these aspects make you re-evalueate your curriculum and how you go about teaching said curriculum? I think I just said the same thing twice...it's been a long week.lol

Just figure it out by reading about aikijutsu and knowing how my own techniques work.

I teach them the standard Hapkido way which is probably not the best way
because it leaves out most of this.

Probably because some of it got lost between Japan and Korea and Koreans trying to make a Korean Art.

 

[Paul B]

Interesting Stuart.

I agree,definitely something was lost in translation, it seems(to me at least) the inclusion of the more subtle aspects of "circular principles". *blending* :wink:

Do you ever introduce students to this concept,or just let them figure it out,like you did? I find it extremely interesting that you think the standard might not be the "best" way. Care to elaborate?

How about this...do you feel your somehow "deviating" from Hapkido,as you where taught,if you do this?

 

[American HKD]

Interesting Stuart.

I agree,definitely something was lost in translation, it seems(to me at least) the inclusion of the more subtle aspects of "circular principles". *blending* :wink:

Do you ever introduce students to this concept,or just let them figure it out,like you did? I find it extremely interesting that you think the standard might not be the "best" way. Care to elaborate?

How about this...do you feel your somehow "deviating" from Hapkido,as you where taught,if you do this?

I teach a show all these ideas and no I'm not deviating at all just a different approach to teaching the same material I try to make sure my students are more informed than I was at a lower ranks.