12 Year Old Boy Begins Sex Change Treatment in the U.K.

[jks9199]

Not knowing more of the medical/psychiatric details of this case, I cannot - and therefore will not - speak to that aspect of it. Looking at what details were published, however, I note that one indication of Tim/Kim's transexual orientation is that s/he played with Barbies.... now, I didn't like Barbies, and was much more interested in playing with Legos, Lincoln logs, and toy cars - that did not, however, indicate that I was male instead of female, nor have I ever doubted that. Nor did William, in "William Wants a Doll", a song by Marlo Thomas, want a doll because of gender identity problems - he wanted to learn to be a daddy.

I had an issue with that, too.

I'm old enough that when I was a boy, GI Joe wasn't a comic book character and dozens of little action figures. He was a 12-inch "action figure" (doll by any real definition) with "KungFu Grip" and various vehicles and playsets (jeeps, submarines, forts, science labs, and more) available. He had a crew cut (the hair would likely fall off if you got it wet), beard and scar. (I saw pictures in catalogs of black GI Joes and GI Joes with hair other than a non-descript blackish/brownish -- but all I saw in the stores was the ordinary white male with blackish/brownish hair.) And... I even had stuffed critters that I was rather fond of.

GI Joe was pretty darn near the size of Barbie, in other words. With lots of more masculine but similar accessories.

I don't think playing with GI Joe was feminine, any more than playing house, school, or any other games we played with neighborhood kids, boys & girls, were. Or that my 1-year old niece liking to play with tools and "fix" her toys indicates that she really wants to be a boy. (Hell -- my wife has more tools than I do!)

I don't think that simply playing with dolls suggests some gender-identity issue. I doubt that this was the sole criteria and I hope it wasn't a primary criteria in this case... But this whole case disturbs and frightens me. As I said -- I have problems with treating gender identity issues with hormones & surgery to begin with; among other things, it's against my religion. (Anybody know if gender identity disorder is actually part of the DSM yet?) But I have even greater worries when we start messing around with biology and maturation... We never seem to have really good results when we try to stop or change those biological processes.

 

[Kacey]

(Anybody know if gender identity disorder is actually part of the DSM yet?)

Yes, it is. See here for complete details, but here is the first paragraph, which contains a synopsis:

There are two components of Gender Identity Disorder, both of which must be present to make the diagnosis. Thee must be evidence of a strong and persistent gross-gender identification, which is the desire to be, or the insistence that one is of the other sex (Criteria A). This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex. there must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one’s assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex (Criteria B). The diagnosis is not made if the individual has a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia) (Criteria C). To make the diagnosis, there must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (Criteria D).

A google search using the terms "dsm-iv gender identity" generated a large list - and I also checked my copy of the DSM-IV, but it was easier to paste from a link than retype it.

But I have even greater worries when we start messing around with biology and maturation... We never seem to have really good results when we try to stop or change those biological processes.

A very valid point.

 

[MA-Caver]

Ok, folks, I personally am against this - but I ddn't want to prejudice the discussions by either setting forth my viewpoints OR putting it in "Horror Stories". I think 12 is far too young to make this sort of decision, as is 18.

As I've said it myself, and have said that I'm against this for the same reasons... but seems that I was accused of gay-bashing (and anyonomously neg repped) for my own reply. Some folks need to re-read what is written instead of seeing one or two words and go crying to their mommas.
GIS may be a for-real problem and that's okay. Gotta look at WHY this kid has GIS. What was their life like? Who/what influenced the kid's mind to start being confused about who/what HE is. Did his mom dress him up as a girl when he was younger? What??
Is anyone over there getting to the heart of the boy's problem? Why is surgery, pills, and other non-personal treatments got to be the only answer?
I'd imagine that the kid is going through therapy... isn't he? What is the therapist telling him? This is really sad sad situation.

 

[Flatlander]

I just don't know how I feel about this. There are strong arguments on both sides of the coin here. Kim feels he's always been a girl, never wavering in that ... so is that a mental illness, or is that a sexual identity crisis?

The difficulty here is that if society deems it appropriate to classify transexualism an illness, then why not homosexuality? To carry this one step further, if transexualism is not an illness, then why the imperative to "treat" the condition?

No, I think that these parents, and the medical practitioners involved are, at the very least, complicit in allowing a minor to endanger himself. If some type of illness or complications arise from the hormone usage, I would expect that all the involved adults should be guilty of reckless endangerment, or something of that nature.

You need to be 18 to get a tatoo......

 

[Kacey]

You need to be 18 to get a tatoo......

Unless your parent/guardian signs for it - same for piercings of all types and all locations; lots of pierced kids at the middle school - eyebrow, lip, tongue, etc.; don't know about clothing covered places and don't want to, either! Besides, your statement assumes that all tattoos are being done by licensed professionals...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Often times children are born with an ambiguity. The surgen and the parents will them choose which sex they want their child to be and live with the consequences. In such cases I think a correction can be made before adulthood, but to simply opt a sex change for your average kid would be wrong.
Sean

 

[Flatlander]

Besides, your statement assumes that all tattoos are being done by licensed professionals...

Yeah, I'm assuming that hormone therapies are being prescribed by licensed professionals as well. It's pretty tough to regulate what the unlicensed ones do.

Further to the comment regarding parental waivering, you are merely supporting my position that it is in fact the parent who bears responsibility for the consent granted. Thus, should the tattooist accidentally infect their child with HIV, the parents are culpable, as the child is not able to take responsibility for the circumstance.

 

[Tames D]

Wow. This makes me feel that my problems are insignificant. Actually, it makes me feel that I have no problems...

 

[Kacey]

Yeah, I'm assuming that hormone therapies are being prescribed by licensed professionals as well. It's pretty tough to regulate what the unlicensed ones do.

Further to the comment regarding parental waivering, you are merely supporting my position that it is in fact the parent who bears responsibility for the consent granted. Thus, should the tattooist accidentally infect their child with HIV, the parents are culpable, as the child is not able to take responsibility for the circumstance.

I don't agree with this - certainly, the parent would be culpable for allowing the child to get the tattoo, and, one assumes, for choosing the tattoo artist - but the tattoo artist would be culpable for not maintaining the standards required for a clean, safe work environment. In addition, lots of the kids I know who are tattooed, pierced, etc., had it done by friends - especially the piercings, and, in the case of the gang members, by other gang members. Are the parents, then, still culpable? There are too many factors to consider.

To return to the situation at hand: there are too many unknowns here. How much of the parents' decision is due to what the doctors told them about their child, and how much is really their own choice? What other options were attempted before this? As with the severely disabled child whose parents chose surgery and hormone therapy to keep her small discussed in another thread, there is too much we don't know. For myself, I consider this situation to be less nebulous - the child is too young to make such a decision for him/herself, there are too many unknown factors about long-term health effects from the hormones, there are too many questions about possible change of opinion later... and unlike the disabled girl, there is nothing physically wrong with this child, and plenty of other transgendered people have made it through puberty with - and until very recently - without any help at all. I see this case as more about the records it will make for the doctors than about the child, and I question the information given the parents that they allowed this course of action to be taken. The hair and clothes - not a problem. It is the hormone therapy I disagree with - but as I say, there is no doubt quite a bit of information that was not in this article, and to which we are not - and will not - be privy, to be able to understand how this decision was reached.

 

[Cryozombie]

Nor did William, in "William Wants a Doll", a song by Marlo Thomas, want a doll because of gender identity problems - he wanted to learn to be a daddy.

Off topic, but no one I have spoken too even remembers "Free to be you and Me" so points to Kacey.

back on topic...

I dunno what to say to this... some parts of the world, the kid is an adult... some parts the kid is a kid... who makes that damn determination? You? Me?

I don't have an answer, and if it was my kid, I'd make him wait... but... yeah, I have to wonder who are we to decide for him? I dunno...

 

[Drac]

Wow. This makes me feel that my problems are insignificant. Actually, it makes me feel that I have no problems...

Ditto....