Ma Jie 马杰大师 ?

Wudang108

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Can anyone provide evidence for this claim: "Finally, in 2005, at the age of 80, Grandmaster Ma came out of retirement to compete in an international fighting tournament. He won first place and beat his competitor, the president of the Ukrainian Fighting Association, who, at 30 years old, was fifty years younger than Grandmaster Ma."

I personally have trouble believing this claim because I've watched the scant video that does exist for Ma Jie and I have trouble believing it. Compared to other descendants of Li Jinglin, Ma Jie seems to lack the footwork, balance and real internal technique that would presumably be a requirement for anyone beating anyone competent, much less an 80 year-old vs. a competent 30 year old.

I've also never heard of anyone engaging in a fighting competition at that age. Mayweather and Pacquiao were considered old for boxing in their late 30's. Even greatest-of-all-timers like Kimura, where everything is documented, had his last fight at 42 against the 27 year old Santana who outweighted him by 40 lbs.

Real masters stop fighting when it's no longer safe or viable because any legit martial master is a realist. I'm a recognized Wudang master from a lineage that is actually documented I'll go toe-to-toe with anyone in my 50's and tire them out because I train more, but that still doesn't mean I could take Tyson in a fair or unfair fight. And pretty much every 30 year-old who is not a weakling is Tyson to pretty much any 80 year old.

I do not believe this claim. I've spoken to a few actual Taoist wudang masters with legit internal technique and was advised that most of the taoist teachers are opportunists if not outright frauds.

That's one of the main drivers for the secular art that comes down from Li Jinglin, which influences all modern Wudang. The secular art is the more widely practiced, by several orders of magnitude, than the old fashioned taoist arts, and therefore, just by basic evolutionary mechanisms, has to be stronger in its modern development, just by sheer weight of numbers. Secret societies were not a good thing for the arts, when we compare to the success of modern arts with full transparency like Judo.

The secular art comes through the military apparatus and had to be practical for real use in the Republican Era. Taoists specifically lived in the wilderness to avoid involvement in politics and with the government.


 
Can anyone provide evidence for this claim: "Finally, in 2005, at the age of 80, Grandmaster Ma came out of retirement to compete in an international fighting tournament. He won first place and beat his competitor, the president of the Ukrainian Fighting Association, who, at 30 years old, was fifty years younger than Grandmaster Ma."

I personally have trouble believing this claim because I've watched the scant video that does exist for Ma Jie and I have trouble believing it. Compared to other descendants of Li Jinglin, Ma Jie seems to lack the footwork, balance and real internal technique that would presumably be a requirement for anyone beating anyone competent, much less an 80 year-old vs. a competent 30 year old.

I've also never heard of anyone engaging in a fighting competition at that age. Mayweather and Pacquiao were considered old for boxing in their late 30's. Even greatest-of-all-timers like Kimura, where everything is documented, had his last fight at 42 against the 27 year old Santana who outweighted him by 40 lbs.

Real masters stop fighting when it's no longer safe or viable because any legit martial master is a realist. I'm a recognized Wudang master from a lineage that is actually documented I'll go toe-to-toe with anyone in my 50's and tire them out because I train more, but that still doesn't mean I could take Tyson in a fair or unfair fight. And pretty much every 30 year-old who is not a weakling is Tyson to pretty much any 80 year old.

I do not believe this claim.


I agree. I competed in my last tournament at age 70 in the 60+ category and was the oldest in the field of 14 or so well-seasoned and advanced fighters. I fought well, though I was quite winded at the end. The competition was tougher than I expected from a bunch of old guys (kudos to them). I've sparred 35 yr. old and under black belts and more than held my own. By the way, my MA is karate.

That said, despite my high opinion of myself, I have no delusions about beating a technically competent and experienced 30-year-old 3rd or 4th degree in a tournament without a good bit of luck and craftiness. I'd probably do better in a street fight where my "dirty" close quarters combat skills could end the fight quickly. Even then, it would be a risky thing. For a 70-year-old, much less 80, to sustain the high level of endurance to fuel the high speed, power, and physical resistance required against a much younger in-shape opponent is probably beyond a reasonable expectation.

While us dedicated senior citizen martial artists can push back the aging process thru continued exercise and practice to a great degree, no one can stop it.
 
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