DF: EBMAS or EWTO?

[Clark Kent]

EBMAS or EWTO?
By reddwarf - 03-26-2009 11:32 PM
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

Hello, everyone! I'm new here, so a little background first... I am learning what is essentially Leung Ting Wing Tsun. My school - the only WT school in my vicinity - was formerly affiliated with the now defunct AEWTO (American Escrima Wing Tsun Organization ), headed by Sifu Emin Boztepe before "the big fallout" with Kieth Kernspecht and the EWTO (European Wing Tsun Organization).
My instructor is now independent ( could no longer afford the licensing fees because of only so many students and starting a family ). My instructor is generally very highly skilled, but - with all due respect - never had the chance to learn things such as Blitz Defense. Thus, I would like to someday further my Wing Tsun education through other instructors.
I have been trying to research EWTO and EBMAS. Both of them seem to me to have equal pros and cons, so I can't make head or tail. Before I go any further, I have already read the various accusations and such that each party makes towards the other
( ie " Boztepe did not truly earn the 6th Practician title" , " Kernspecht expelled me because I was becoming too powerful", etc., etc.) Therefore, what I am seeking are more objective viewpoints (Okay, maybe a little dissing is unavoidable ). Are any of you with EBMAS? EWTO? Why did you stay with/join your present organization? Better yet, did any of you initially stay with EWTO but later change your mind and go over to EBMAS, or vice versa? How do both sets of experiences compare? Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all very much in advance!


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[AceHBK]

Sounds like this would be a good discussion.

 

[geezer]

From my perspective, the three different branches of Leung Ting's WT system are virtually the same from a technical perspective, so go with the school or instructor who suits you. EBMAS is very combat oriented The NWTO guys are really into quality technique, and the guys who stuck with Leung Ting's AWTO have the approval of the head man himself. Of course that last part can be a mixed blessing. I went with the NWTO rather than the EBMAS or Leung Ting's group because I've reached a level where I can't afford Leung Ting anymore (he charges a fortune for upper level training!!!!), and I'm old enough that I'm more into the "art" than training for fighting. On the other hand, if the WT system wasn't so split by politics, I'd gladly train with all three. I have friends in each group and respect what they do.

 

[qwksilver61]

Man you are right about that! Back when I was with my then Dei sihing Steve Brandon he emphasized spot on technique,where as the EBMAS system places a great deal of emphasis on streetable combat right from day one.
Like Geezer said,you can't go wrong either way,it just depends on what you want.I am pleased to say that I am happy with the EBMAS school,like I said hands on combat,very streetable,and it doesn't matter one bit to me if Sifu Emin were 5th or 6th level he was GM kernspechts top fighter,personally I may or may not ever reach master level,and at my age I don't care,get in my way I want to be able to shut you down.This is where the quality of instruction comes in, not pissing contests.Take no offense,just shootin' from the hip!Besides,most people couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag,this is why drilling is so important...over and over ond over and over an.....ov..a..o........

 

[AceHBK]

I can say that seeing both sides that I agree with you guys. I am at the moment under Moy Yat and it is very slow and is more on technique which is great.

I had the chance to visit an EBMAS school and it does technique as well but it is more about street situations and all.

I can say it seems like the EBMAS will be more useful right away as opposed to the heavy technique style which will take longer.

 

[qwksilver61]

Yeah you know....I used to think about this often, a while back while training
quality is better,and sometimes it takes longer to achieve.I just never understood why the self defense portion came later,now I do.It does take time to develop proper technique and sensitivity.There is nothing wrong with learning a real art the real way,but I do have a little trouble with not being able to apply what I have learned on the street.I used to find myself reverting back to my Tae Kwon Do roots quite a bit at first,but then at some point I gave up the ghost (hard to do) like Geezer and probably most of you,
I have respect for the other Sifu's and their arts.Point....you should be able to apply what you've been taught.Back in the mid 80's I knew this cat who trained at the Wah Lum Temple,he used to get flack about his long hair and the fact that he had this smoking hot girlfriend.He used to get into fights quite often....he could fight,and win using what he had been taught,whirlwind punches,reverse arching punch,sweeps...etc.etc.Point.....can you or have you taken this art to the street?

 

[Jimmythebull]

never had the chance to learn things such as Blitz Defens

Don't waste your time or money on this. Well I hope you didn't as it's an old thread. Kernsprecht is seen at the start of the video with his Blitz defence...absolutely hilarious. Nothing to do with, WT, VC,WC...etc

 

[Jimmythebull]

Beyond pathetic

 

[Cynik75]

These "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" stories alway remind me Lonestar vs Dark Helmet scene:

 

[Jimmythebull]

Back to the topic..definitely go for EBMAS. He teaches the "original " WT from the 80s & 90s more or less. Not the watered down ( being polite) Version from kernsprecht & the EWTO

 

[geezer]

Back to the topic..definitely go for EBMAS. He teaches the "original " WT from the 80s & 90s more or less. Not the watered down ( being polite) Version from kernsprecht & the EWTO

I have no direct personal experience with the EWTO. I studied with Leung Ting in the 80s and met Emin on his first trip to the US right after the fight with William Cheung. Frankly, he was a cocky jerk. He was also very good and scary strong at that time.

After a long lay-off from martial arts, around 2007 I returned to training with my old Escrima Instructor Rene Latosa, who was at that time associated with Emin's EBMAS and through that connection got reacquainted with Emin.

Whatever his personality traits, he was a gifted martial artist and teacher, and personally I also liked his take on Wing Tsun much better than what I see coming out of the EWTO. I have spent some time training under an old "kung-fu brother" of mine who had a lot of training with the EWTO and has incorporated their stuff into his curriculum and, uh ...well let's just say I'm moving off in my own direction these days.

My question is ...What happened to Emin? His EBMAS website is down and I don't see any current information on him. On another forum, a poster mentioned him being very sick? I do not know if he's even teaching anymore. He's only about 60. Is he retired? Anybody know?

 

[Jimmythebull]

I have no direct personal experience with the EWTO. I studied with Leung Ting in the 80s and met Emin on his first trip to the US right after the fight with William Cheung. Frankly, he was a cocky jerk. He was also very good and scary strong at that time.

After a long lay-off from martial arts, around 2007 I returned to training with my old Escrima Instructor Rene Latosa, who was at that time associated with Emin's EBMAS and through that connection got reacquainted with Emin.

Whatever his personality traits, he was a gifted martial artist and teacher, and personally I also liked his take on Wing Tsun much better than what I see coming out of the EWTO. I have spent some time training under an old "kung-fu brother" of mine who had a lot of training with the EWTO and has incorporated their stuff into his curriculum and, uh ...well let's just say I'm moving off in my own direction these days.

My question is ...What happened to Emin? His EBMAS website is down and I don't see any current information on him. On another forum, a poster mentioned him being very sick? I do not know if he's even teaching anymore. He's only about 60. Is he retired? Anybody know?

As you said I saw an interview with him where it was mentioned he was sick. Not sure but something to do with his stomach. In one Video you could clearly see he looked like he had some kind of Dressing under his t shirt. I was not aware that his site was down so not sure there.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Emin was good give him that..

 

[Cynik75]

Emin was good give him that..

....

Probably. But not for sure, he was not a fighter. People who met him usually tell he was fast, strong, athletic with good technique, but I personally doubt if he was better than good amateur.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Probably. But not for sure, he was not a fighter. People who met him usually tell he was fast, strong, athletic with good technique, but I personally doubt if he was better than good amateur.

he was Kernsprecht´s " best student at one time. I have met a few others who were also very good & now have their own schools. emin was cocky, arrogant but that was his way & he could back it up. I´m not praising him but he was good & most "traditionel WT,WC,VC... guys admitted it too. One was philipp Bayer who is a pro

 

[Jimmythebull]

 

[ChainpunchPapi]

My question is ...What happened to Emin? His EBMAS website is down and I don't see any current information on him. On another forum, a poster mentioned him being very sick? I do not know if he's even teaching anymore. He's only about 60. Is he retired? Anybody know?

SiFu Emin is doing great. He’s recovered and is training hard and teaching. He spent most of the pandemic in his hometown in Turkey. He has a fishery and restaurant there and has had several students fly in to train with him

He’s been doing seminars between turkey and Germany and will be teaching in the US again this coming spring.

You can follow him on IG @tceminboztepe or @ebmas123