Young Sociopaths

[Martial Tucker]

Also, our system is flawed....but it's primarily because it's not a 'criminal justice system'. We have a 'legal system'. There is a difference. One involves justice and the truth, the other involves attorneys and court room maneuvering. As long as we have a system dominated by attorneys, it will rarely be just, and it will hardly ever be about truth.

This pretty much sums up the root of the problem.
Yes, our legal system was created with noble principles and the premise that we are innocent until proven guilty, and we have a right to legal representation when accused. It has turned into a game of influence and negotiation.

 

[Kreth]

Prison isn't exactly a deterrent these days. Hell, many prisoners have more cable channels than I do.
When I was in the Marines, a member of my unit was jailed in Okinawa for assaulting a local. He was kept in a cage which was not tall enough for him to fully stand, nor long enough to lay fully prone. He was allowed out for 1 hour each day, for exercise. Now that's a deterrent.

 

[MJS]

Prison isn't exactly a deterrent these days. Hell, many prisoners have more cable channels than I do.
When I was in the Marines, a member of my unit was jailed in Okinawa for assaulting a local. He was kept in a cage which was not tall enough for him to fully stand, nor long enough to lay fully prone. He was allowed out for 1 hour each day, for exercise. Now that's a deterrent.

I agree!! And IMHO, that is the way all prisons/jails should be. The facility where I worked was an in-take facility. There are 3 in the state. Basically, its the in-between place until they're sentenced. That being said, there was a constant batch of people coming in on a daily basis, right from the street. They were allowed to come out to the dayroom to eat and then went back to their cell. I worked 4-12, so at 6:30 pm. they were allowed back out for the next 4 hrs!!!! 4 hrs. to watch tv, play board games, make a phone call, shower, recreation, etc.

So to summarize...they commit a crime, get caught, and really have it no harder than when they were out. They have a roof over their head, food, tv...all the comforts of home. IMO, 1 hr. a day is all they should get. In that hour time, is when the shower, phone call, rec. etc, should be done. Thats it! To me, what they currently get, is not a deterrent.

Mike

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

Singapore might be a great model for crime and punishment"

Here's a chart that would sent you straight to their S&M parlor:

http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm


Here's what satidfied customers has to say:

http://www.corpun.com/singfeat.htm#experience


The whole procedure:

http://www.corpun.com/singfeat.htm


Gee, I wonder how our street artist Michael Fay is doing ?

 

[MJS]

Singapore might be a great model for crime and punishment"

Here's a chart that would sent you straight to their S&M parlor:

http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm


Here's what satidfied customers has to say:

http://www.corpun.com/singfeat.htm#experience


The whole procedure:

http://www.corpun.com/singfeat.htm


Gee, I wonder how our street artist Michael Fay is doing ?

Well, I for one, would certainly think twice before commiting a crime, if I knew that I face the chance of getting hit with a cane. Don't think we'll see something like that in the US though. The ACLU, AI and any of the other groups out there that seem to care more about the well being of the criminal than the victim, would certainly have to step in and add their .02

Mike

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well, I for one, would certainly think twice before commiting a crime, if I knew that I face the chance of getting hit with a cane. Don't think we'll see something like that in the US though. The ACLU, AI and any of the other groups out there that seem to care more about the well being of the criminal than the victim, would certainly have to step in and add their .02

Mike

The problem is the sociological view of crime which renders criminals not responsible for criminal behavior. As the theory goes, criminals are a victim of social forces, which compel them to commit crime. As such, it is inhumane to actually require them to be responsible for their actions. Specifically, you have the Marxians who believe all crime is a product of economic disparity.

Of course, all of this flies in the face of reality, but who ever let that get in the way of a good sociological theory.

 

[Flatlander]

Specifically, you have the Marxians who believe all crime is a product of economic disparity.

Is this really the Marxist position? Sort of ignores the faulty wiring that some people come with, doesn't it? What's the assumption here, that all humans are inherently good, kind people? *Guffaw, snort* *slapping knee*

 

[arnisador]

The problem is the sociological view of crime which renders criminals not responsible for criminal behavior. As the theory goes, criminals are a victim of social forces, which compel them to commit crime. As such, it is inhumane to actually require them to be responsible for their actions. Specifically, you have the Marxians who believe all crime is a product of economic disparity.

Of course, all of this flies in the face of reality

Surely crime rises when poverty increases? Surely the rise in crim in N.O. after the hurricane is best explained sociologically? One can believe that social forces--including peer pressure--increase crime in general, while still believing that all of us have a moral responsibility to resist it.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Is this really the Marxist position? Sort of ignores the faulty wiring that some people come with, doesn't it? What's the assumption here, that all humans are inherently good, kind people? *Guffaw, snort* *slapping knee*

That is the assumption. Marxian criminal theory is that crime is the result of poverty and wealth inequality, period.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Surely crime rises when poverty increases? Surely the rise in crim in N.O. after the hurricane is best explained sociologically? One can believe that social forces--including peer pressure--increase crime in general, while still believing that all of us have a moral responsibility to resist it.

Certain social forces do effect criminal behavior, though the link between poverty and violent crime is not clear cut or self-evident. Though some crimes are poverty related (such as theft) violent crime shows no clear link with poverty.

The problem with many sociological theories, however, is that they leap to a conclusion not supported by the evidence....That crime is a product of forces outside the control of the criminal.

The problem is that it's been shown, fairly conclusively, that the most effective crime control models are those that remove criminals from society. It's been shown again and again that, while crime may be triggered by certain sociological phenomenon, most criminals are inherently different than the average person. There IS such thing as a criminal, who is prone to commit criminal behavior. Removing that individual from society reduces crime more effectively than any other method.

 

[MJS]

Saw this in todays paper.

http://www.courant.com/hc-beating0125.artjan25,0,1633590.story

Copycats or just more punks that have nothing better to do than beat someone up?

Mike

 

[sgtmac_46]

Saw this in todays paper.

http://www.courant.com/hc-beating0125.artjan25,0,1633590.story

Copycats or just more punks that have nothing better to do than beat someone up?

Mike

I think the 'Bum Fights' phenomenon has a lot to do with the copy-cats.

 

[Odin]

this is a random question but relates to this topic......why is it wrong to kill?and why is it wrong to steal?

(do not think i beleive it is not,i just had this debate on another forum and the answers were interesting to say the least)

 

[sgtmac_46]

this is a random question but relates to this topic......why is it wrong to kill?and why is it wrong to steal?

(do not think i beleive it is not,i just had this debate on another forum and the answers were interesting to say the least)

Because allowing either unchecked would mean the destruction of civilization, and we'd all be thrown back in to living in a pre-civilized brutal existence.

Without laws against some basically universally accepted wrongs, we couldn't live together.

 

[Odin]

Because allowing either unchecked would mean the destruction of civilization, and we'd all be thrown back in to living in a pre-civilized brutal existence.

Without laws against some basically universally accepted wrongs, we couldn't live together.

How can that be true when a civerlization is formed through killing in the first place.ie

Rome
Greece
Great britain
USA
Ottoman

All the above empires used or still use killing as a means to continue their civerlization.same for stealing.

 

[Martial Tucker]

Because allowing either unchecked would mean the destruction of civilization, and we'd all be thrown back in to living in a pre-civilized brutal existence.

Without laws against some basically universally accepted wrongs, we couldn't live together.

Exodus 20:13-15.... Pretty straightforward

 

[Flatlander]

This line of discussion isn't really on topic. If you'd like to discuss them further, please begin a new thread.

 

[Odin]

Exodus 20:13-15.... Pretty straightforward

Oh the bible?does it say that in the quran?(")

 

[Odin]

This line of discussion isn't really on topic. If you'd like to discuss them further, please begin a new thread.

theres a point to all this trust me.

 

[Muay Thai Knee]

Whether it's ring violence or street violence. It all boils down to the same point. People find violence entertaining. There is something inherent in all of us that we take joy out of causing others pain. Slapstick humour is yet another example of this. When they were beating that homeless guy to death. They were probably experiencing the same buzz a professional fighter gets in the ring. It is merely a case of us labelling it as something different, so we can make it acceptable to our own individual moral codes.

We can argue that both fighters have agreed to it, but would this not make them both sociopaths, for revelling in the partaking of violence? We could argue that the homeless man didn't get a choice? However noone here seemed to care he was homeless until he was dead. then there are cries of "What a horrible crime" and "Tragedy".

The fundamental point, I think, that Odin was trying to make is really quite simple. Without understanding something fully how can we make a judgement on it? We can call these kids sociopaths and lock them up and throw away the key. This would stop them doing it again, but it doesn't stop it ever happening again. Why do things like this happen? Why don't we all think of a way to find out rather than resort to losing our tempers with one another?

As for the civilization question. My definition of a civilization would be a society that did not require police. If we were truly civilized we wouldn't need people to enforce "law" and "order". Civilization is a word we use to make us feel safer than we actually are.