young female wrestlers

[Ceicei]

I thought it interesting that in the last paragraph of this article, wrestling is mentioned as self defense. I know many people tend to think of wrestling more as a sport.

http://www.harktheherald.com/module...=article&sid=7098&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

How do you feel about this situation? If you were the mother or the father, how would you handle this?

- Ceicei

 

[MountainSage]

What a crock! That young lady has every right to be included in any tournament. I should note that I have an eight year old daughter that wrestles throught the local kids program. The comments were even more anal than the situation. Boys wrestling girls makes them spousal abusers, get real. The AAU wrestling system allow boy-girl competition up til about age twelve then the gender are sperated which seem appropriate. I am impressed with the team honor that was shown, that coach is teaching those kids some excellent sportmanship and spirit. The only issue is that boys in "manly" sport of wrestling, which I competed in for 10+ years at a local, state, and regional level and coach, is boy don't want to lose to a girl. Ego is the most deadly personality trait to have in any situation. Wrestling is an art like any other martial arts, yet some people forget the art for the glory or the precieved glory.

Mountainsage

 

[Ceicei]

MountainSage,
If that was your daughter, what would you have said to Kelley or done to resolve this?

- Ceicei

 

[JDenz]

I agree with the tournament people. I have wrestled all of my life and coached AAU wrestling for the last 7 or 8 years. I hate the idea of boys and girls wrestling together. First of all the girls are way better when they are young, by the time they reach 10-11 the boys start getting better and stronger. Here in NY they let boys and girls wrestle each other through the highschool years. I have a daughter and I would not let her wreslte boys, even if she is way better. Not only that it raises a HUGE liabilty issue about inaproperate behavior. Not only that I seen a match that highlights the gender diffrence to a tee. My kid was 12 I am not sure how old the female was. He went for a pump handle tilt and they stopped his match and gave him a unsportsman like conduct penality. They restarted the match, he put a boot in and was riding here got a little high and he was hanging on to her chest. I am not sure if he relized what he was doing or not but he got hit with another unsportsman like conduct, so now he has given up three points is tied with her with thirty seconds left. If he gets called for anything else the female ref (who has never wrestled once in her life, Her brother was a state champ but she herself never steped on the mat) tells us if he does anything else he is out of the tournament (DQ'ed for the whole thing, normally it is double elimination) SO I tell him to let her up and take her down again. He did and ended up getting the takedown pretty much on the towel coming in. He had it earlier and the ref wouldn't give it to him. Terriable.

 

[MountainSage]

Ceicei,
As a good parent I would have to demand the entrance fees refunded and leave. Later explaining to my daughter that the world is not fair or just, so move on to the next battle. Win the one's you can, politely and quietly leave the lossing battles alone. As a person, I would demonstrate the "flying Helocopter" on his ***, followed closely by a public castration. Both of which I am uniquely qualified to accomplish ( I am very large person and a sheep rancher). That situation has lose-lose written all over it.

JDenz,
I understand you position on the issue, yet everyone is going to have to understand the situation these girls are placing themselves into when stepping onto the mat. I am realistic in that I know most people will not understand. If wrestling is to survive, there need to be the inclusion of women. Why you might ask? Believe it or not women athlete's are more strongly supported by friends and family than males.


Mountainsage

 

[JDenz]

I don't have a problem with women wrestling. I think that it is another sport that needs diffrent gender compitions like football. There are girls only tournaments here which I think is awsome. Womens wrestling is going to be in the olympics so I don't think that there is a problem getting women involved with the sport. I mean there is never going to be a female linebacker, just like no women is ever going to beat a man at even a high highschool level probley.

 

[Ceicei]

JDenz,

Let me ask some questions regarding the situation you mentioned.

Could two male wrestlers do the exact same things you saw happen between the male/female wrestlers and NOT be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?

If yes, then the female ref is wrong. In competition, rules should be applied equally, regardless if one of the wrestlers happen to be female. If penalties are given indirectly because of gender when none given if both wrestlers are of the same, then the answer is obvious.

The fact that female ref never set foot on the mat to wrestle herself in the past does count somewhat against her and may have colored her judgment. Nevertheless, if she has done a lot of refereeing, she should keep in mind that if two male wrestlers can do some certain moves without penalty, she shouldn't issue such a penalty if the same moves were done between male/female wrestlers.

My two cents,

- Ceicei

 

[JDenz]

It is not a penality at all if two male wrestlers do it. Let me say that if I saw a boy doing that two my daughter I would be upset probabley to. The female ref tries hard but she is not that good. She has very bad Mat positioning and doesn't anticipate where the action is going so she is out of position alot of times. I don't really have much of a problem with female refs. There actully is a real good ref that is an old big women. Like I said I think wrestling is a sport that everyone should experiance sometime in there lives I just think that they should keep the geners seperated.

 

[MountainSage]

JDenz,
We are in general agreement on this issue with minor differences. One thing that is tending to be overlook is that wrestling is a skill sport not just a brute strength. I have personal beaten stronger opponents in high school with skill when strength didn't work. Let me tell you that the first time it happened, being large and strong person, scared the horse pucky out of me.

Mountainsage

 

[arnisador]

There's a lot of body contact in wrestling. I don't ever recall seeing a guy placing an arm in another guy's crotch called as unsportsmanlike conduct. It sounds like that sort of call could effectively rule out many techniques.

I don't know what the answer is. Obviously, not enough women currently practice it for a seperate female wrestling sport to be viable.

 

[MA-Caver]

To my understanding the referee was female and had no previous wrestling experience of her own to realize that it was a legal move to put down an opponent.
When you get refs like that and they're not even thinking that ... "hey these are just kids... not teenagers who'd get a thrill from a feel"...
Anyway... that equality of the female sportsperson is seemingly coming into it's own. But when everything goes co-ed still remains to be seen.
Wrestling is just a step...one step.

 

[JDenz]

lol stregth and endurance is what wrestling is all about. At any high level of wrestling women are not going to be able to compete. There is great female intrest in wrestling and they took major steps getting female wrestling in the olympics coming up. Female wrestling is coming up strong watch out for the US team in the olympics. I have posted several other articles on this in this forum.

 

[arnisador]

Do you really think the average high school could field a team?

 

[MountainSage]

I do not believe that the average high school could field a complete competition team at this time. I believe Espire high school wrestling has 10 weight divisions, where mens is 12 or 13 depending on the state. Oregon has 13 mens and 8 womens weight divisions in high school and one university with a women wrestling team (Pacific Lutheran). I understand that the Pacific team does very well on the national level and sent one or two to the Pan-Am games. I think there may be some other college and universities that have programs in Oregon.

Mountainsage

 

[Ceicei]

Here's a follow up to the initial article. Looks like this situation is going to the ACLU. - Ceicei

Boy-girl wrestling banned; moms mad

The Associated Press

Courtney Jackson can wrestle. The 9-year-old proved it last year when she beat the boys on her way to first place at a tournament in Orem.

See rest of article...

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Nov/11292003/utah/115498.asp

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by JDenz
lol stregth and endurance is what wrestling is all about. At any high level of wrestling women are not going to be able to compete. There is great female intrest in wrestling and they took major steps getting female wrestling in the olympics coming up. Female wrestling is coming up strong watch out for the US team in the olympics. I have posted several other articles on this in this forum.

You can be sure that won't happen in Texas. Someone tried to force it on the U.I.L. in letting the girls compete with the boys, and it didn't work!:asian:

 

[JDenz]

Good I think that womens wrestling needs to stay a club sport for a few more years until they get the women to do it. Wrestling is a dieing sport anyways. Less collages and highschools every day.

 

[MountainSage]

JDenz,
if you believe wrestling is dying then quit. I will fight to keep wrestling alive with my last breath. There is not better all around athlete than a good skilled wrestler. Add some kicking and punching and you've got a real bad @ss and probably a nice person to boot. Add youth and weapons train and you got a future Navy S.E.A.L. and no I'm nowhere near the ability of a SEAL(I wish).

Mountiansage

 

[JDenz]

Wrestling is losing the good fight. It will never die out, wrestlers are to hard core for that to happen but tittle 9 is a back breaker and Fila is a joke.

 

[chinkoobake]

Originally posted by MountainSage
JDenz,
if you believe wrestling is dying then quit. I will fight to keep wrestling alive with my last breath. There is not better all around athlete than a good skilled wrestler.

Tell it like it is, brother!