Wu Shen Pai Kenpo in Vegas?

[KenpoNovice]

Hello everyone!

I live in Las Vegas, Nevada (recent transplant) and was searching for a Kenpo Karate school near my house. I found one school and went to watch a class. The instructor after the class told me he had been in town for several years and in our discussion he seemed OK. He told me he had his own Kenpo style called "Wu Shen Pai (spelling?)?" He explained how he created his own style, but his school still has EPAK techniques being done (at least I recognized the Yellow thru Purple belt material).

My question is, has anyone every heard of this type of Kenpo? If so, what's the difference between this and EPAK? Has anyone every heard of this instructor? --- his name is Bob Jones at East West Kenpo Karate.

Any and all information would be very helpful since I'm looking to start training again as soon as possible, but I want to know what I'd be getting involved with first before I make any commitments.

Thanks for your input,

KenpoNovice (aka Terry)

 

[rmcrobertson]

I should note first of all that Mr. Jones separated himself from my own primary instructor, Larry Tatum, recently.

Mr. Jones teaches what he has learned in American kenpo, and from Mr. Tatum, with some admixture of a kung fu style he had previously studied, and other bits of his own quite recent invention.

I have worked out with Mr. Jones, I have seen him teach, and I cannot recommend his school. I would be wary of Mr. Jones' "innovations," as well as his ideas about authority and teaching.

However, I am given to understand, on reliable authority, that there are very good children's classes at this school, run by Mrs. Jones.

As a general comment, it is extremely rare to find an instructor who is genuinely qualified to devise, and to teach, his own style of martial arts. There simply aren't very many Ed Parkers and Bruce Lees out there, and there never were.

 

[azkenpo1]

Terry,

Mr. John Herman has a Kenpo School located near Sam's Town in Las Vegas. Mr. Herman is a high ranking Black Belt in the AKKI under Mr. Paul Mills. Mr. Herman is very proficient and has a great group of students to work out with. You can reference the AKKI website for further details at AKKI.com

Sincerely,

Darin

 

[Franc0]

I fully concur with both replies. I have met Mr. Jones and seen him move, and I know and have trained with John Herman personally. I would definitely suggest you go with Mr. Hermans' Nevada Kenpo Karate.

 

[KenpoNovice]

Robert/Darrin/Masterfinger,

Thank you for your input! I now know to stay away from the school.

When I went there, I was so excited because the school is less than 2 miles from my house (talk about convenient). Unfortunately, as enthusiastic as I was, I couldn't get over the feeling that something wasn't quite right about the guy.

The first thing that bothered me was my friend went to check out his school for me before I moved to Vegas. My friend is not a "Kenpo" guy, but has a Black Belt in Japanese Karate. He went 4 months ago to visit the place and Mr. Jones was wearing a 5th-degree Black Belt. I thought to myself, "Great, the guy's a high-ranking practitioner!" When I go to visit just recently, Mr. Jones is now wearing a 7th-degree Black Belt!?! I thought, WTF?

Robert, I knew the guy used to be with Tatum, only because he talked about him for over 10 minutes, telling me he learned everything he needed and didn't want to deal with "So. Cal. Politics." I didn't think about it much at the time, but I was wary of the things he said about his association with Tatum. I don't think you gain from bashing other people, especially a former instructor.

Anyway, thanks for the information guys. I'm probably strange in the fact that I try to research everything I can before I make a major decision/committment to something or someone. I definately know what to do now.

Grateful for information,

KenpoNovice (aka Terry)

 

[MJS]

Anyway, thanks for the information guys. I'm probably strange in the fact that I try to research everything I can before I make a major decision/committment to something or someone. I definately know what to do now.

I wouldn't say that you're strange. You're doing research and covering your bases. Better to do that than spend your $ on someone not worth giving it to.

Mike

 

[azkenpo1]

Terry,

I was not so much telling you to stay away from Bob Jones' school, rather I was giving you positive feedback regarding John Herman's school. I don't know Bob Jones personally and I cannot comment on his integrity or lack thereof. I feel John Herman is a very proficient martial artist and one would be hard pressed to find better Kenpo instruction in your area. I know that Mr. Mills has another student by the name of Julio Sabates in the Las Vegas area, Julio is awesome, however he does not have a school and teaches out of his home. Check with the AKKI website for details on both instructors.

Darin

 

[KenpoNovice]

Darin,

No problem, I completely understand. I'm happy for your advice and trying to help me figure out where to train!

My comment and decision to stay away from Bob Jones' school is not based on what you posted. I guess I came to that conclusion from my "gut" feeling, combined with the other posts I read from Robert and Masterfinger. Unfortunately, the more I've looked around for information on his school, the more bad news I come across.

Mike, thanks for the complement. I'm trying not to be too anal in my research, but I'd rather find out now instead of having a problem later and being stuck in a multi-year contract paying $200 a month!!!

I've been lurking (viewing and not posting) on these boards for awhile and the advice I've seen has been excellent. I guess that's why I made my original post --- looking for help. Thanks again guys for your advice.

Very appreciative,

Terry
KenpoNovice

 

[getgoin]

Kenponovice,

I sent you a PM. What I have to share is best kept off the forum.

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod Note-

Thread moved from EPAK to Kenpo/Kempo General Forum.

~Tess
-MT S. MOD-

 

[kenpo3631]

I should note first of all that Mr. Jones separated himself from my own primary instructor, Larry Tatum, recently

For some reason I think this statement set's the tone for the rest of your previous post.

Mr. Jones teaches what he has learned in American kenpo, and from Mr. Tatum, with some admixture of a kung fu style he had previously studied, and other bits of his own quite recent invention. I have worked out with Mr. Jones, I have seen him teach, and I cannot recommend his school. I would be wary of Mr. Jones' "innovations," as well as his ideas about authority and teaching.

This statement sounds so familiar when a student of a "Master" branches off without the approval of the "Master".

As a general comment, it is extremely rare to find an instructor who is genuinely qualified to devise, and to teach, his own style of martial arts. There simply aren't very many Ed Parkers and Bruce Lees out there, and there never were.

Couldn't the same have been said about the two 40 or 50 years ago when they broke from their original instructors to teach their "own" systems?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Dear "3631:"

First, my opening statement was intended to "set the tone," for what followed. Indeed, it was meant to warn readers of my possible biases, a common opening courtesy and warning in many sorts of review writing.

Certainly, you are perfectly entitled to see this in whatever fashion you choose. I simply don't see how it is that everybody who strikes out on their own is Bruce Lee.

Finding this a pretty tricksy topic--I can think of at least three reasons, offhand, that I perhaps shouldn't have written anything at all--I don't think I'll say much more than that I stand behind what I wrote, which was grounded in direct experience and extended observation.

It does strike me that there's an ongoing and probably-unsolvable problem of honest evaluation in the martial arts--yes, all of them--all the way from teaching through tournament judging through this sort of issue.

I won't be posting on this thread again, I should add. Thank you for your argument.

 

[Les]

I can endorse what azkenpo 1 says about John Herman.

I too have seen him teach, and he is a first class instructor with good backgroung knowledge.

I recommend you pay him a visit at

Nevada Kenpo Karate Studio
3310 South Nellis Blvd. #19
Las Vegas, Nevada 89121
(702) 434-7274

 

[Les]

Terry,

You might want to look at this thread as well

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19447

Les

 

[Rick Wade]

Ok I can't take it anymore.
I didn't want to jump on the band wagon but here goes. I went to the mainland on Vacation and went to several Kenpo schools and had a great time. I went to Schools in San Diego and Las Vegas. I called East West Kenpo and told them I was in town and asked If I could attend a class they were nice and invited me to the class. The first thing that happened was Mr. Jones said the way I was doing some techniques were wrong. Wrong what! Strike one. When I tried to explain that I had learned the techniques according to the IKKA and was now I was working inside the UKF curriculum and Mr. Pick had a fortified stance and twelve points. He proceeded to tell me that all techniques should be done from that attention stance to help build speed. Anyway after talking to him for about 30 minutes he started bashing several Prominent Kenpo Instructors and it just ticked me off so bad that I packed my bag and left early. It really put a damper on the whole trip (Kenpo wise). I visited some really great schools that did techniques that were similar to the IKKA. When I questioned them on why I wasn’t disrespectful I would ask them why they did it that way (sometime they would enlighten me and sometimes they wouldn’t) and then I would show them the way I did it. One last note about Mr. Jones when I walked into his studio it was like I was being recruited for our small Kenpo contingent on Oahu. So I told him that I was not abandoning my instructor and the UKF to open a school for him in Hawaii. The whole experience was not fun. As for Mr. Jones and his Wu Shen Pai Kenpo good luck it just wasn’t a right fit for me.

V/R

Rick

 

[Goldendragon7]

One last note about Mr. Jones and his Wu Shen Pai Kenpo ~ good luck ~! it just wasn’t a right fit for me.
Rick

Amen ~

 

[Goldendragon7]

First, my opening statement was intended to "set the tone," for what followed. Indeed, it was meant to warn readers, a common courtesy.

I think he was just trying to say the following.............

1ST BLACK BELT PLEDGE

I HOLD THAT MY TIME AND MY SKILL ARE THE ASSETS TO MY PROFESSION, ASSETS WHICH GROW IN VALUE AS I PROGRESS IN KENPO, UNTIL AS A THIRD DEGREE BLACK BELT I STAND AS A FULLY QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR. IT SHALL ALSO BE MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT ANY INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PERSONAL WEAKNESSES TO DIVEST THE GULLIBLE INTO UNPROFITABLE PATHS. TO PRESERVE THE SACRED THINGS, FAMILY, GOD, AND COUNTRY, I PLEDGE MY ALL.

:asian:

 

[getgoin]

he is a first class instructor with good backgroung knowledge.

Richard Black might disagree.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Well it seems Mr. Bob now has the BURDEN of wearing a 7th degree BB given to him by who knows, some judo guy. If you do a little research you'll find that his claims are spurious, wished I'd have done some homework a little sooner LOL. All this within a few months of putting on a legit 5th.


http://www.eastwestkenpokarate.com/masterTheArt.html

DarK LorD

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well it seems Mr. Bob is now wearing a 7th degree BB!, you'll find that his claims are spurious, wished I'd have done some homework a little sooner LOL.
DarK LorD

I know you're gonna hate this but..... "I told ya"......... :lol: