WTF Sparring: Exclusively, or in addition?

[Daniel Sullivan]

"You fight like you train" has been said by many in regards to the subject of sport taekwondo and why it is bad for MA.

But how many of you who participate in sport taekwondo do so exclusively? In other words, is all of you martial arts training geared towards WTF/Olympic style sparring, or does your dojang have a separate SD curriculum that you train in regularly as well?

I'll start: I train in hapkido in addition to taekwondo, but our taekwondo curriculum has an SD element that we train in regularly as well. We have sparring classes on Wednesday and Friday nights, while the remainder of classes are traditional, SD oriented. For me, the WTF style sparring is a way to further enhance my kicks, and I do enjoy the sport aspect as well, but I don't train exclusively in it.

Daniel

 

[bluekey88]

We have a specific SD curriculum made up of one step punch sparring, combo techniques, hoshinsul (self-defense applications), and grappling. We integrate Sparring in specific classes once or twice a week that is Olympic style. We also play with other rulesets here and there. Sparring is only a Piece of what we do, the overall curriculum is much broader.

Peace,
Erik

 

[mango.man]

My daughter participates exclusively in sport TKD.

As for the notion that you will fight on the street like you train in the dojang... Well she also recently completed the LA County Sheriff's Explorer Academy. When the day came for "force day", bouncing in place with her hands to her side were the furthest things from her mind. She fought to survive, not to score points. And she did just fine doing so.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Mango, as I recall, your daughter trained at a traditional dojang at one point?

Anyway, I don't know that anyone involved in a martial sport, be it boxing or taekwondo, will always default to competition only moves in a real fight. Most everyone has had enough schoolyard scraps to know that competition only is not the way to go in a real fight.

In addition, there is so much more to self defense/protection than the act of physically fighting. Much of what constitutes protecting one's self in the real world, like recognizing potentially dangerous situations, diffusing them, and the like, is not taught in most schools, even many traditional schools.

Daniel

 

[zDom]

For me, the WTF style sparring is a way to further enhance my kicks, and I do enjoy the sport aspect as well, but I don't train exclusively in it.

And this is how, in my opinion, it SHOULD be.

 

[terryl965]

sprt is second`SD` is first and foremost

 

[Kacey]

We don't do Olympic sparring at all - but we came from the ITF, not the WTF.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

We don't do Olympic sparring at all - but we came from the ITF, not the WTF.

I'm not familiar with the ITF sparring rules, but from what I've gathered, ITF sparring is not nearly as sport oriented away from the core art as WTF style is.

Daniel

 

[Sylo]

Our school is pretty much 100% traditional.

we are ITF.

our sparring is continuous.

if we did have a tourney (which we haven't in years)

it would be continuous sparring. The points would be judged similar to MMA.. and the winner would be the person with the most points at the end of the round (5 minutes). To me, this is much more challenging, and its alot easier to judge. Because once someone gains momentum (just like they would in a real fight) they will most likely win. You can actually be dominant for the entire match if you know how to properly use the skills you have been taught. If I run a combination, and land with every move pushing my opponent back.. I get points for all the moves I "connected" with.

I've seen skilled people lose tons of "stop" point competitions simply because they were trained to run combinations and "finish off" the opponent. In a real fight are you going to jump in, tap them on the chest and then pull back? Your gonna keep hitting them til they either give up, or you become dominant. "Resetting" fights after each point just makes 0 sense to me.

IF my school did WTF sparring. I'd participate for the kicking experience, and to show my fellow students why they need to put their hands up.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I spare as I spare. I do not go by TKD or SBD or Shotkan or whatever. I don't belive in that.

I'm a real believer in 100/100. That is, instead of a mix of 50/50 or 30/70 or whatever hands/feet I feel 100/100. You should be able to hold your own with either hands or feet or both.

The only 'style' you shoud have is your own. It should fit YOU. Your physique, your temperment, your abilty.

Way to many people try to bend themselves to fit the art, instead of bending the art to fit them. They bend themselves so much they turn into a pretzel!

Deaf

 

[Kacey]

I'm not familiar with the ITF sparring rules, but from what I've gathered, ITF sparring is not nearly as sport oriented away from the core art as WTF style is.

Daniel

Pretty much, yes. We do mainly continuous sparring - occasionally point, as there are purposes to it (primarily teaching students to use single-strike techniques, and to force those who prefer to counter-fight to strike first instead of waiting), but we don't use point sparring on a regular basis, and almost never for tournament sparring. The rules are also different - the target zone is from the belt to the base of the neck on the front of the torso, and anywhere on the head, with no targets anywhere on the neck, no targets below the belt, and no targets behind the floating ribs.

Points are awarded as follows:

a standing hand strike anywhere in a legal target zone is 1 point
a standing kick to the legal target zones on the torso is 1 point
a standing kick to the head is 2 points
a jump hand technique to any legal target zone is 2 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length)
a jump kick to the legal target zones on the torso is 2 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length and both feet must be off the ground when the kick lands)
a jump kick to the head is 3 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length and both feet must be off the ground when the kick lands)

Jump techniques are awarded extra points because of the difficulty - but few people use them because of the risk.

 

[tko4u]

Olympic sparring is nothing like the point sparring. The training is different, the competition is different. What you use in olympic, you cant use in point, and vice versa. The target zones are different, and the scoring is different.

I have done both, and in my opinion, I would take point any day. Olympic should be kept as separate as possible. Simply because, what you learn in one, you cant use in the other, so it would be confusing to put them together

 

[YoungMan]

I believe Olympic-style sparring should be kept as a sidebar strictly to black belt students. In other words, it should be done only by black belt students who are interested in training for tournaments for a set time period. It should not be done by color belt students and it should not be the standard curriculum for a school.
I do not have a problem with Olympic sparring. At its best it exemplifies speed and is beautiful to watch.
I have a problem with schools that only teach it exclusively. Yeah it's beautiful to watch, but a lot suffers in terms of technique when that's all you do. I think the correct mindset is to say "I'm going to focus on Olympic sparring for 5-6 years, finish, and then return to traditional."
The thing that's killing Taekwondo is that more and more instructors only know Olympic-style. They can't teach traditional because they never learned it. And traditional does NOT mean you are teaching a Koreanized version of Japanese karate. You are still practicing traditional Korean Taekwondo.

 

[Kwanjang]

At my Dojangs-we train traditional Chung Do Kwan System which includes take downs and practacal SD applications. I personally don't care for Olympic style sparring. However, We spar continous with hands to the head. I don't allow "crappy" hand techniques to the head (if you have been to an open tournament you know what I mean.) I do agree that olympic sparring like stated- doees help improve your kicking. Sometimes we spar "kicking only" matches.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Pretty much, yes. We do mainly continuous sparring - occasionally point, as there are purposes to it (primarily teaching students to use single-strike techniques, and to force those who prefer to counter-fight to strike first instead of waiting), but we don't use point sparring on a regular basis, and almost never for tournament sparring. The rules are also different - the target zone is from the belt to the base of the neck on the front of the torso, and anywhere on the head, with no targets anywhere on the neck, no targets below the belt, and no targets behind the floating ribs.

Points are awarded as follows:

a standing hand strike anywhere in a legal target zone is 1 point
a standing kick to the legal target zones on the torso is 1 point
a standing kick to the head is 2 points
a jump hand technique to any legal target zone is 2 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length)
a jump kick to the legal target zones on the torso is 2 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length and both feet must be off the ground when the kick lands)
a jump kick to the head is 3 points (jumps must cover at least the attacker's body length and both feet must be off the ground when the kick lands)

Jump techniques are awarded extra points because of the difficulty - but few people use them because of the risk.

Thank you for the breakdown! Just out of curiousity, are arms considered a valid target?

Daniel

 

[tko4u]

I believe valid but not pointable

 

[Kwanjang]

sprt is second`SD` is first and foremost

A great post Terry!

 

[Kacey]

Thank you for the breakdown! Just out of curiousity, are arms considered a valid target?

Daniel

I believe valid but not pointable

That is correct - techniques that strike the arms are considered blocked, but not fouls.