Wow, a woman I can really say I hate

[Twin Fist]

"I just read an article about a mom in New York who is suing her now-four year old daughter Lucia’s preschool for not sufficiently preparing Lucia for an IVY LEAGUE COLLEGE. "

http://chicksontheright.com/2011/03...-say-that-if-i-did-i-would-probably-hate-her/


so many things in this story that piss me off I dont know where to start

 

[Steve]

She's an idiot, but that's typical of the crazy parent living vicariously through the child. The article nailed it when it mentioned pageant moms and the like.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

schools straight suck today.
My sons preschool is now introducing a prekindergarten class for kindergarten kids who do not have the skills to enter kindergarten... um wtf.... isnt that what parents paid you to prepare their kids for?
I guess its a damn good thing that the only reason I put my kid in 2 days a week half day for was to get him used to times, and social skills with a class... it seems about half the class is not ready for kindergarten, granted they have 3 1/2 months to gain those skills, but only 2 other kids out of 13 are part time like my son the majority are full time, and a few are super full time(7am-6pm)<----thats disgusting btw... the teacher pulled me aside yesterday and proudly informed me that my son was one of less then half the class ready for kindergarten academically.... I made sure to inform her that I knew that because I have the requirements for kindergarten and have worked with my son daily on them. She had this blank look on her face right before she realized that she is more responsible for the more then half the class that is not ready for kindergarten then the few that are.../shrug
I have little to no faith in teachers today.... good hearts... good intentions... but more concerned about teaching little sally and johnny to accept gay people, handicapped people, different races, different lifestyles, etc then teach them the basics.... english, math, science, etc..
its bad out there.

 

[Steve]

I have three kid, two in public schools and they're doing great. It sounds in your rant like you're indicting the parents but blaming the schools.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I have three kid, two in public schools and they're doing great. It sounds in your rant like you're indicting the parents but blaming the schools.

Its both.

 

[Twin Fist]

i have little to no faith in teachers today.... Good hearts... Good intentions... But more concerned about teaching little sally and johnny to accept gay people, handicapped people, different races, different lifestyles, etc then teach them the basics.... English, math, science, etc..
Its bad out there.

qfmft

 

[bushidomartialarts]

On the other hand, look at the tuition and website. Major metro areas usually have a few preschools that promise to get your child on track for ivy league. It's part of their marketing plan. I wasn't in the room, but if that was part of the sales presentation, mom might have a point.

On the other other hand, I'd still want to slap her for making that a priority in choosing a preschool.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

On the other hand, look at the tuition and website. Major metro areas usually have a few preschools that promise to get your child on track for ivy league. It's part of their marketing plan. I wasn't in the room, but if that was part of the sales presentation, mom might have a point.

On the other other hand, I'd still want to slap her for making that a priority in choosing a preschool.

My question is why would you want to slap her for making that a priority???

There is nothing in this story that says she neglects her kid, or does anything bad for her kid.
how about wanting to slap the parents who put their kid into preschool for almost 12 hours a day....excuse me daycare, and try to make themselves feel better by calling it preschool?
how about the parents who send their kids to school and never once participate in the kids school careers?
no you want to slap a woman who may or may not... but mostly likely may have a bunch of money and is spending it to get her kid the best education and leg up possible from an early age.
she may or may not be trying to send the kid away to a school to take care of the kid, but it doesnt say that, and since the mother pulled her kid out after 3 months my guess is she is probably very hands on with the kid.
is it pompous and arrogant? hell yes.
is it bad? not from anything that was written about it.
so why the hell would you want to slap her?
she could possibly be a crappy mother, but there is nothing here to say that, she could also be the best mother in the world... yet you want to slap her because she is pursuing an ivy league dream for her kid, actively engaged in that pursuit, and holding a school that claims to prepare kids for that pursuit accountable for what it says...19,000 dollars for a a preschool... that should pay for alot of hands on advanced work with the kid I would think... to find out the program was little more then a playroom? if that is true then I applaud her from removing her kid and demanding a refund... unfortunately there is not enough information to make a realistic decision here, but I find it kind of odd that so many are making the jump to the worst case scenario
I don't get it.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

a) Pompous and arrogant
b) There's no data indicating that it actually works
c) There is data indicating that academic pressure so early correlates (no word on causation) strongly with depression, anxiety and eating disorders as an adult.

In other words, mom's ego is leading her to risk doing real damage to her kid - so that she thinks better chance of telling people at the club that little Jenny went to Hahvahd. And she's wrong.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

a) Pompous and arrogant
b) There's no data indicating that it actually works
c) There is data indicating that academic pressure so early correlates (no word on causation) strongly with depression, anxiety and eating disorders as an adult.

In other words, mom's ego is leading her to risk doing real damage to her kid - so that she thinks better chance of telling people at the club that little Jenny went to Hahvahd. And she's wrong.

a. I agree 100%
b. I disagree, although the data is most likely all incidental, but alot higher percentage kids who are entered into these types of programs go to Ivy League schools, then kids who don't.
c. there is nothing in this story at all that says the woman is making her kid study ungodly amounts of time, putting ungodly pressure on the kid, or doing anything wrong, thats an assumption you have made based on what? what you want to believe is wrong wiht the world.... sure it might be true, but it sure might not as well. Still not reason to smack a woman, as compared to the other much more common scenarios I listed.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

a) good to know we agree on something
b) can't disagree. the data are clear. once you edit out for socioeconomic status, family lifestyle and the "legacy effect," there is no difference between the likelihood of somebody who attends that kind of preschool and somebody who goes to a less focused preschool, or even kids who stay home for that year. this isn't an opinion, this is raw numbers based on longitudinal studies from the 1980s to present day.
c) you're right. i was making an assumption - i'll stand that it's an assumption that's pretty likely to be accurate (especially since she's suing), but it was an assumption. she might be a completely laid-back mom who will produce a totally well-adjusted kid with an excellent sense of perspective.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

a) good to know we agree on something
b) can't disagree. the data is clear. once you edit out for socioeconomic status, family lifestyle and the "legacy effect," there is no difference between the likelihood of somebody who attends that kind of preschool and somebody who goes to a less focused preschool, or even kids who stay home for that year. this isn't an opinion, this is raw numbers based on longitudinal studies from the 1980s to present day.
c) you're right. i was making an assumption - i'll stand that it's an assumption that's pretty likely to be accurate (especially since she's suing), but it was an assumption. she might be a completely laid-back mom who will produce a totally well-adjusted kid with an excellent sense of perspective.

b. do you have data on that? I am guessing you dont. I dont have data either, but I have seen some of the studies that that jackhole Rob Rheiner(sp) used in his bs California campaign, and yes there was a huge difference between those that went to preschool, and those that did not.
c. you do realize shes just suing to get her tuition back right? She is suing because she said what she was promised is not what she got, she removed her kid from the school, and is just trying to get her 19,000 dollar tuition back... shes not trying to sue for million, or any ridiculous thing.. imagine you take your dog into a place that touts the best training in the world and charges 10,000 dollars for it, and you find out they put the dogs in a big fenced off area with a bunch of chew toys, I bet you will remove your dog and fight for the fees you paid.... if your gonna do that for a dog I imagine you will go a bit further for your kid.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

b) actually i do. university of chicago study by dubner, et al. the upshot of the study, which included lots of other points, was that certain kinds of families - regardless of specific child-rearing choices - predict academic success. in other words, actually attending the preschool doesn't matter. coming from a family that values education - and has a few extra bucks - matters a lot. you can find the abstracts in "freakonomics" and the podcasts of the same name.

c) again, fair enough. as i said, i was making an assumption that could be wrong. but you've gotta admit it could also be right.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

b) actually i do. university of chicago study by dubner, et al. the upshot of the study, which included lots of other points, was that certain kinds of families - regardless of specific child-rearing choices - predict academic success. in other words, actually attending the preschool doesn't matter. coming from a family that values education - and has a few extra bucks - matters a lot. you can find the abstracts in "freakonomics" and the podcasts of the same name.

c) again, fair enough. as i said, i was making an assumption that could be wrong. but you've gotta admit it could also be right.

can you link me the study...that says that kids who go to preschools and kids who dont have no difference, I dont believe that one at all.

I own the book freakanomics, its fun, and I have not read it since the I read it the day it came out so maybe I need to go back and give it a reread, but I thought that while it was fun, it was not absolute.. it just went to prove that statistics in and of themselves are not the whole story most of the time.../shrug

I also said multiple times that it could be, but gave a few examples that seemed to me to be more deserving of a smack, then a woman who is trying to insure her kids success, you still have managed to completely ignore that.

 

[Ken Morgan]

The Finns don't start school until 7 years old, and I believe they spend less hours in a day at instruction then many other countries too, yet they score at the top of almost every subject.

Let kids be kids, and they will develop an imagination, if you drill and kill you end up with automatons.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

boxer...i don't have a link. if you still have "freakonomics," re-read the chapters where he worked with the chicago school district and the one where he examines parental behaviors as predictors of success. you can also go online and listen to the podcasts where he interviews the former head of new york schools.

i find dubner's work pretty on track. the thing i like about him is he's a math geek - he rarely enters into a study with a result in mind. he enters into it so he can read the numbers and draw a conclusion. if he has a bias, it's a reporting bias - he only talks about the studies he's run or found that say something counterintuitive. if he runs a study that turns out consistent with "conventional wisdom," it never gets reported.

we'll have to agree to disagree on the other point. you seem to be getting kind of wound up over it. will it help if i promise to never actually slap her? unless she's into that sort of thing...or we're sparring

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

unless she's into that sort of thing...or we're sparring

Roflmao

 

[bushidomartialarts]

You might also want to look at his study of Chicago magnet schools. Like the preschools, it turned out that attending a high-end magnet school made no difference in future academic success. What mattered was having applied to a magnet school whether or not the student was accepted. Applying meant a family environment and personal value system consistent with academic success - and academic success came even for students denied the opportunity for the high-end education.

I find that **** fascinating.

 

[Blade96]

The Finns don't start school until 7 years old, and I believe they spend less hours in a day at instruction then many other countries too, yet they score at the top of almost every subject.

Let kids be kids, and they will develop an imagination, if you drill and kill you end up with automatons.

a freaking men....and women too.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

http://www.slate.com/id/2288402/?gt1=38001
funny how timing works on things..
just saw this story.. reading it now, from the line or two I read I imagine it probably works against my stance, but /shrug I thought the timing was funny.