Whimpier kids?

[IcemanSK]

I'm curious as to other's thoughts on this. It seems I have quite a few male students (7-10 years old) that seem to get emotionally wrecked when they face adversity during class. I'm not talking about feeling physical pain, I mean things like forgetting their forms. (Yet, even with physical injury, it's exagerated (sp?) beyond the actual injury. I do not mean to under-value their experience: it just seems excessive.

I don't see myself as a taskmaster by any means. I never berate or belittle my students. I was never good at sports as a kid, but I played football with the kids in the neighborhood. I cried my share of tears if things didn't go the way I'd planned. But, I don't remember it being the way I see it in my students. Even the mom's of these kids (not the dad's!) have told a few of their kids that they need to "toughen up" in my presence.

Have other instructors noticed this in their classes? What do you do with/for that child in that moment? (I'm the only instructor & I have to keep the rest of the class moving while dealing with one child's emotional issues). I want to be sensitive to student's needs without disrupting the experience of the other students.

 

[terryl965]

I have too of them that everytime you correct what they are doing wrong they breakdown into tears, there is absolutely nothing that can be done until they are ready to stop it.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I've seen this in my school and in the community at large. Some the current education philosophy (and policy) seems to say that children should never feel fear, discomfort or pain.

Which I find sad, since life is scary, uncomfortable and painful.

I don't think this is so very bad, though, since it meshes well with my foolproof plan for world domination. You see, I intend to wait for the meek to inherit the earth. Then I'll take it from them (which shouldn't take too long).

Stage one appears to be progressing right on schedule....

 

[Thesemindz]

I'm curious as to other's thoughts on this. It seems I have quite a few male students (7-10 years old) that seem to get emotionally wrecked when they face adversity during class. I'm not talking about feeling physical pain, I mean things like forgetting their forms. (Yet, even with physical injury, it's exagerated (sp?) beyond the actual injury. I do not mean to under-value their experience: it just seems excessive.

I don't see myself as a taskmaster by any means. I never berate or belittle my students. I was never good at sports as a kid, but I played football with the kids in the neighborhood. I cried my share of tears if things didn't go the way I'd planned. But, I don't remember it being the way I see it in my students. Even the mom's of these kids (not the dad's!) have told a few of their kids that they need to "toughen up" in my presence.

Have other instructors noticed this in their classes? What do you do with/for that child in that moment? (I'm the only instructor & I have to keep the rest of the class moving while dealing with one child's emotional issues). I want to be sensitive to student's needs without disrupting the experience of the other students.

The best way to handle this is to seperate the student from the rest of the group until they get themselves together. When children are freaking out, it's embaressing to them and leaving them in front of the other children will only exaserbate the problem. Similarly, with children, this kind of panicking is contagious. If one kid starts to lose it, other kids can get emotionally worked up, and then they become more prone to outbursts. I've worked with children in a variety of settings and this is very common. Young children don't have the depth of life experience to know which difficulties are worth breaking down into tears over.

Unfortunately, if you are the only instructor, this can get hard, because you can't be with them in another room while they calm down, you have to watch the rest of the class. In this case, I've found that the best thing to do is sit the kid on the sidelines and tell him he's welcome to rejoin class when he feels better. Then try to redirect the class. Keep the energy up, do a favorite drill or excercise, hilight another well behaved student for special praise. When the pouty kid sees the fun going on, and he's not a part of it, he'll forget about crying and try to get back in the action. Make sure he know's he has to raise his hand and get permission to rejoin class. Then ask him if he's sure he's ok. If he says yes, he's welcome back in. Don't ridicule him, act like his concerns are valid, and treat him with respect. Even some of my worst kids straightened up when they realized that the only result of their behavior was they missed out on the best parts of class.

The most important issues here are to set a good example as a role model, point out the positive behavior of your students whenever possible so the kids all know how to behave to get praise, and maintain good, positive communication with the children and their parents.

If you have a problem student, have a meeting with the student after class. I find it's best to meet with just the student, then the student and the parent, then just the parent. This way the student knows you see him as a seperate, important individual worthy of direct communication, then he knows that you and his parents and he are all in this together, and then you can reassure the parents that their kid isn't unique in having difficulties, and that they don't have anything to worry about if you all work together on this issue.

Working with kids can be tricky. I never recommend going it alone, try to find an assistant. Kids are unpredictable, and when they cry, get hurt, or wet their pants, you need an assistant there to distract the group while you fix the one. Besides which, in today's world, I'd never work with anyone under 18 without an adult witness. I want to make sure that everyone know's everything is on the up and up, and if accusations of impropriety are made later, I want to have someone who can testify in my defense.


-Rob

 

[Blindside]

I don't teach the kids class much anymore, but when I do I can't say that I see that much of it. Maybe its a difference between big cities and small blue-collar towns like the one I live in? I have seen a couple the way you describe, but several of those kids were perfectionists who thought they had it down, and then had to be corrected. Just a bit too much self-pressure there.

Lamont

 

[Tez3]

Our kids don't seem any wimpier (well we live in Yorkshire, no one is wimpy here lol... "Yorkshire born, Yorkshire bred, strong in th' arm, weak in th' 'ead" as they say here) but what i have increasingly noticed and I get mad about is the lack of respect for property and the bad manners of children. I'm not going to say 'oh in the good old days' etc etc as the children are learning this from adults.
We've had children come into the club and start messing around with equipment ( we have weights and other keep fit type stuff), run onto the mats with shoes, throw their own stuff all over the floor and leave drink bottles and wrappers behind.(we don't let them eat sweets or crisps lol in the club but they leave the wrappers!) If you are talking to someone they just interupt. The times too I've had to tell a child to put it's hand over it's mouth when coughing or sneezing, to say pardon if burping or bum burping, all things that they should have been taught by adults.
I don't think our lot would cry if you told them off or corrected them, they are more likely to look at you as if you were stupid! Another thing is that they are quite unfit!
Right, I feel better for that rant, thank you for posting the thread!

 

[IcemanSK]

The best way to handle this is to seperate the student from the rest of the group until they get themselves together. When children are freaking out, it's embaressing to them and leaving them in front of the other children will only exaserbate the problem. Similarly, with children, this kind of panicking is contagious. If one kid starts to lose it, other kids can get emotionally worked up, and then they become more prone to outbursts. I've worked with children in a variety of settings and this is very common. Young children don't have the depth of life experience to know which difficulties are worth breaking down into tears over.

Unfortunately, if you are the only instructor, this can get hard, because you can't be with them in another room while they calm down, you have to watch the rest of the class. In this case, I've found that the best thing to do is sit the kid on the sidelines and tell him he's welcome to rejoin class when he feels better. Then try to redirect the class. Keep the energy up, do a favorite drill or excercise, hilight another well behaved student for special praise. When the pouty kid sees the fun going on, and he's not a part of it, he'll forget about crying and try to get back in the action. Make sure he know's he has to raise his hand and get permission to rejoin class. Then ask him if he's sure he's ok. If he says yes, he's welcome back in. Don't ridicule him, act like his concerns are valid, and treat him with respect. Even some of my worst kids straightened up when they realized that the only result of their behavior was they missed out on the best parts of class.

The most important issues here are to set a good example as a role model, point out the positive behavior of your students whenever possible so the kids all know how to behave to get praise, and maintain good, positive communication with the children and their parents.

If you have a problem student, have a meeting with the student after class. I find it's best to meet with just the student, then the student and the parent, then just the parent. This way the student knows you see him as a seperate, important individual worthy of direct communication, then he knows that you and his parents and he are all in this together, and then you can reassure the parents that their kid isn't unique in having difficulties, and that they don't have anything to worry about if you all work together on this issue.

Working with kids can be tricky. I never recommend going it alone, try to find an assistant. Kids are unpredictable, and when they cry, get hurt, or wet their pants, you need an assistant there to distract the group while you fix the one. Besides which, in today's world, I'd never work with anyone under 18 without an adult witness. I want to make sure that everyone know's everything is on the up and up, and if accusations of impropriety are made later, I want to have someone who can testify in my defense.


-Rob

Thanks Rob! I teach in a room with windows to the parent's viewing area outside. Parents are encouraged to watch for every class. I too want to be transparent that way!

I will use some of my senior students (13-14 year old orange belts) more often.
Thanks!

 

[charyuop]

I am 35 years old and still cry when Sensei corrects me

 

[Andrew Green]

I think there are two things at work.

The first is that we remember things from when we where young differently. Brain basically fills in the gaps based on the way it currently works.

The second is that yes, kids are more overprotected now. They are the grand children of the baby bombers. There parents too young to remember, or even have been alive durring the Vietnam war, and only caught the tail end of the cold war. All we know is peace and happiness (oh, and terrorism, media making big deals about little things because there are no real wars that we are involved with to report on, etc)

"I'm sorry to say that the world has become a *****-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies. " - Wesley Snipes (Demolition Man)

Wow... who would have thought a silly movie like Demolition Man could be prophetic...

Anyways, the amount of pain kids feel is often inversely proportional to the amount of fun they are having when it occured. Fun, but physical games, like wrestling based ones, are great for this. Lots of close contact, lots of getting bumped around, and no one wants to sit on the sidelines hurt while everyone else plays

Kids right now, with the threat of lawsuits and safety extremism don't get enough rough play to really develop that "tough" trait. I remember posting a study here a while back about how rough play is essential to development, yet it has become a complete "no no" in many places.

 

[Flying Crane]

I see a huge number of children who are coddled by their parents. It's sometimes a wonder these kids ever grow up to be self-sufficient adults who can take care of themselves. Blows my mind.

In my opinion, based on what I see here in San Francisco area, this is more prevalent in the wealthier yuppy families. The working class and lower families still can have a strong tough streak. But the yuppy families have high earnings and everything is provided for the kids, they never need to do anything to earn anything. I think also because the parents are so career-oriented that maybe they feel guilty for not spending time with the kids. So when they do spend the time, they give the kid no discipline, and they give them everything they want with no effort. I think this can lead to the problems described in this thread.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I'd add to that a feeling of guilt over not spending much time with the kids. In order to provide that privileged lifestyle, both parents have to work. When they do have a chance to be with their kids, many don't have the heart to make that time unpleasant or disciplinarian.

 

[kidswarrior]

I've seen this in my school and in the community at large. Some the current education philosophy (and policy) seems to say that children should never feel fear, discomfort or pain.

That's an interesting point of view, since I've seen eduction go in exactly the opposite direction for the last decade or so. It's, suck it up, perform on this or that exam or else be humiliated (held back, denied a HS diploma or MS graduation) and in general: do more, better, bigger, faster than any previous generation.

Maybe it's this very pressure that education puts on young children that robs them of the thing called resiliency, which seems to be what is missing in the kids Iceman and Terry are speaking of. And by the way, yes I've seen it in MA students, too. Don't have a solution any better than what's already been said.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

You must be in a different district. 'Round here, nobody gets held back. Ever. It's an IEP or special program within the same grade. Teachers aren't permitted to refuse to accept late work. It's a bloody joke.

I have it on good authority (a teacher I know well) that the principal in her district requires all teachers to keep a few pairs of dry socks in their desks. So that if kids get their feet wet at recess they won't have to spend the day with wet feet.

You're right that there's lots of pressure to perform on tests, but I see that falling more on the teachers. When was the last time one of those standardized tests directly affected a child's grade?

 

[Steel Tiger]

You must be in a different district. 'Round here, nobody gets held back. Ever. It's an IEP or special program within the same grade. Teachers aren't permitted to refuse to accept late work. It's a bloody joke.

I have it on good authority (a teacher I know well) that the principal in her district requires all teachers to keep a few pairs of dry socks in their desks. So that if kids get their feet wet at recess they won't have to spend the day with wet feet.

You're right that there's lots of pressure to perform on tests, but I see that falling more on the teachers. When was the last time one of those standardized tests directly affected a child's grade?

It all seems to stem from a very strange mindset in which children are never to be told "no". Not only are children not told they are doing something wrong, they are all encouraged to think that whatever they do is not just right but first rate. When I was at school there were prizes for excelling, now there seem to be prizes for not standing out. Everyone is a winner, everyone is special. Its not surprising that the egos and psyches of children are so fragile now that when their work is corrected they fall apart.

The result is there is no discipline. Many parents want some form of discipline, preferably self-discipline, from their children, but they're not getting it at school anymore (this is generally not the fault of teachers but scared administrators) so they look to sport and martial arts. Unfortunately, the children have been so indoctrinated with the "we're all special, no one fails" attitude that any form of strictness or discipline impacts brutally with their very fragile world view. Whimpier kids? It is very possibly true.

 

[Kacey]

Because the kids in my class are 12 and older, and I have adults in the same class, I don't generally have the problem you're describing, but I have seen it. About 5 years ago, I had an 8 year-old boy in class who tested for his 9th gup (white belt, yellow stripe), after which I increased my expectations for him - he was corrected more (in the constructive criticism sense - e.g. "change this so this will be better", "try doing this this way and see if it works better", that type of thing) and he would break down in tears every time he was corrected in any fashion, especially on previously learned techniques that needed improvement; getting corrected on new things wasn't as much of a problem. His mother withdrew him from class, after telling me that she didn't think he was "being nurtured enough", that this "constant correction is making him feel badly about himself" and "can't you correct him without him realizing he's being corrected?"

 

[IcemanSK]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. I've really had a hard time with these kids. A friend gave me a helpful piece of advice when teaching. It's the word "Now" rather than the word, "But." As in, "I liked that kick, now keep your hands up." I've noticed positive reinforcement plus the word now works well for most folks (adults included).

I also spoke with staff from the teen employment program. One staff member told me of a parent who said her 17 year old was "distraught for hours" after this gal interviewed him for a job. The parent was quite upset. Apparently, it's not just kids in my town who need to toughen up.

 

[jks9199]

I think part of a general "softness" that I've seen in many kids today is that they don't get bumped around nearly as much as we used to... And that's both emotional and physical.

We played tackle football without helmets or pads; we rode bikes in scary ways and didn't wear helmets; climbed trees (and fell out of them) and made rope swings (learning which knots are NOTS, and that clothesline IS NOT rope in the process), and so on. Most of the kids I grew up with played maybe 2 or 3 organized sports a year; for example, I played baseball in spring/early summer and swam in the summer. Some guys could add football or soccer... We played lots of pickup games -- which meant someone got picked last. Teachers could (and did) fail students. Kids were mean to each other -- and parents just told them to work it out.

Now, I'm all for safety. I cringe today when I see kids without bike helmets; they don't need the concussions I got growing up. But life contains bumps and bruises and being miserable. It seems that at least some parents are trying to prevent anything bad from happening to their kids.

 

[Flying Crane]

and that clothesline IS NOT rope in the process

Yup, learned that lesson...

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Kids these days.
When I started karate at 7years old, I saw much wisdom and seriousness in the instructors and it was intimidating at first. One of the first lessons I learned was that an instructor corrects you because he thinks you are worth teaching. We were expected to accept correction gratefully but encouraged to question with respect. The decision lay with the children to study or not. What we study is serious and will be taken seriously or not taken at all. If a child is studying a martial art I think he/she's a martial artist, not a child. If he/she doesn't display the proper discepline, give them the choice to do so or sit out/go home. If the respect isn't there...

 

[jdinca]

Let's see. No dodge ball, flag football, tag, everybody gets a trophy, no matter how they did all because we have to protect the children. I think we've brought this on ourselves and we may very well pay a price for it in the future, who knows?

IcemanSK, based on your posts, you seem to be doing a great job with your students. Positive reinforcement is important but it's just as important for a child to understand when what they're doing isn't good enough, it's going to take more effort and attention to detail. To many parents, this can border on emotional child abuse. Quite frankly, I consider this teaching a child how to function in society. Take the advice these good folks have given you and keep doing what you're doing.