What should a good CMA school be like?

[don bohrer]

What should a good CMA school be like?

I have been training at a potential new school for a week now and general like what is being taught. Tuition is only $45.00 a month and you can train 3 hours a day 7 days a week. The instructor has been present every day and often the classes run long.

However I notice this school doesn't seem to spar! The teacher does believe in CHI and forms...lots of forms. This is a lot different than what I am used to. My back ground is in Kenpo, and of course most of you know we like to spar in addition to self defense and kata. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[gravity]

What style/ system of CMA are you learning? Different arts stress different things.

While sparring is the norm, some CMA don't do it because they believe it developes bad technique (I can understand that). Instead of sparring some CMA do alot of 2 man drills and 2 man forms. Some of the attributes of sparring can be obtained through these activites.

 

[Matt Stone]

Don -

On the surface it sounds like you've found the most important thing - a school that appeals to you. Too many people just take whatever is closest or most affordable.

It also sounds like a pretty decent curriculum. And don't judge the not-sparring thing too heavily. Sparring can be good and it can be bad - depends on how it is used...

You have been there a week. Have you asked them whether they spar more than you have been exposed to?

Good luck in your training.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[don bohrer]

I just got called out of class and back to work, but only for a moment. So while I am waiting to be sure I solved the problem I thought I would get back to you guys.

Gravity,
The school teaches: Hung gar, Bagua, Xingyi, Tai Chi, Choy Li fut, and Shoalin. Now I am not sure how all these relate, but the instructor offers them and stats that these are internal styles, or have a heavy internal component to them. The weapon forms that are taught depend on what style your learning. (braod, and straight sword, spear, 3 peice staff, hooked swords, staff, fan)

Yili1,
The school is down to earth has about a dozen students. We are pushed to learn the forms which means a fair amount of correction early on. Currently I am learning Tom Toy or what is known as Springing Leg. What I find a little frustrating is how Tom Toy has this coiling thingy, and over extended motion going on. The teacher expanded that they start with big circles and make them smaller. Sparring is not part of the training.

 

[gravity]

Originally posted by don bohrer

The school teaches: Hung gar, Bagua, Xingyi, Tai Chi, Choy Li fut, and Shoalin. Now I am not sure how all these relate, but the instructor offers them and stats that these are internal styles, or have a heavy internal component to them. The weapon forms that are taught depend on what style your learning. (braod, and straight sword, spear, 3 peice staff, hooked swords, staff, fan)

CMA in general does have internal componants. However in terms of 'internal' Bagua, Xingxi & Tai chi are the 3 main internal arts. Provided the instruction is top quality you might want to check out Bagua. Its an art based on circles....very sophisticated and may complement Kenpo.

 

[don bohrer]

Gravity,

Bagua you say! I already ask, but he doesn't want to start me there. Not sure why, but I already know he has at least one student learning this. What I do know is that each student will have Hung gar as a primary art then he'll add to that. There are exceptions such as some older students staying with Tai Chi.

 

[Furious George]

Here's a link to an article that outlines what to look for and expect from a Kung Fu school:

http://www.kickboxing.com/knowledge/fitness/ckc6.htm

...and here's Kung Fu Magazine's 'Guide To Starting Kung Fu Training'

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/info/schoolguide.php

Hope that helps...:asian:

 

[don bohrer]

FG that does help.

I also refer back to my old Kenpo school for a reference point. Kenpo has a way of working the techniques, forms, sparring in a hands on approach that I am not sure I will get at this new school. I do feel sparring is important, but for now I am willing to put that aside.

Hung Gar uses lower stances and is more static than what I am used to, but I like the root and Iron bridge concepts so far. I can already tell if I work these forms my stance work is going to improve. So I might lose in one area but gain in another.

 

[ekkaia]

do you mean they don't spar as in you haven't seen ANY of the students spar, or they haven't let you personally spar yet? alot of schools concentrate on different aspects at different times. sometimes i don't spar for weeks or even months, preferring to concentrate on power generation, forms, drills, or cardio work, etc. recently i've been touching hands quite a bit with other practitioners and haven't done any drills, but that doesn't mean i don't do drills at all. you probably just have to be there for a few mths before you see the full curriculum. or you could politely ask if they spar if it's something you'd really like to do in the future

 

[don bohrer]

ekkaia,

I have ask the students if they spar or have 2 man drills and was told no. In another conversation I found out the instructor used to spar with the Kenpo guys, and other martial artist back in the day. I get the impression that he feels sparring creates some bad habits. I would settle for 2 man drills.

 

[don bohrer]

In walks Johnathan and he says "Oh were gonna spar sometime" Go figure! Maybe there is more to this school than first impressions and the comments of a few of it's students. Anyway I haven't sparred the big lug yet, and I think he's thinking kung fu style. Man, if I start losing I'm pulling out my Kenpo! Besides he's bigger than me.

 

[7starmantis]

Sparring is looked at differently in CMA than in most other systems, so I wouldn't let that part bother you. In my school you don't even get to play Chi Soau (Sticky Hands) until you have been there about a year, then after that its quite a while befoer you get to do sparring. We don't do any "sparring" in class at all at my school, but fast and powerful chi soau can be worse than sparring anyways!

Hung Gar is a great system, lots of low stances! Be prepared, Horse stance is the hated stance among our school. It sounds like its some pretty good instruction there, what is the Instructors name? Its been a while since your post, how are things going now? Are you still at that school?


7sm

 

[Dragon-Spirit]

Here si what I found. When looking for a CMA school, I looked to experience, and then to see how many people have achieved the level of black sash. In almost 30 years of training only 17 have made it to black sash. This means it isn't easy to just get by. Sparring in our CMA is only for promotiions. Sparring dilutes the movements, holds back power, and basically waters down the art form. We do many contact drills, but sparring is reserved for promotions. There is a huge difference between sparing and studying an art form. Like in a fight, where one's life may be threatened, all rules go out the window. The last thing one wants to do is spar, and hold back punching or kicking power. That is what will happen in a real confrontation. Train full force, full speed, at no specific target. The target for me is my size. I like to spar, but it is hard to draw at someones face and stop the strike, without doing major damage. One thing, at our CMA we do not use any protective gear except mouthpiece, and cup, and thoes are optional. I prefer to use nothing.

 

[don bohrer]

A month ago I had a car accident and re-injured my back so I haven't been training lately. However the instructor and a few of his students did give me energy (chi) in attempt to speed up the healing. I am somewhat open minded.

Last week I tried to do an empty leg stance (cat stance), but found I couldn't support my weight (115 pounds) for any length of time. Yesterday was the first day for me without pain. I will start training again on monday.

The instructors name is Beto (Roberto) Briseno. I believe his teacher was R E Wong? or sounds like that. I never did catch that name but will ask again on Monday. I like Hung Ga but wish we had more than just Forms. He does explain and ask if we have questions. Sure wish there was more hands on approach though. Each class we cover 2 maybe 3 forms.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by don bohrer
The instructors name is Beto (Roberto) Briseno. I believe his teacher was R E Wong? or sounds like that. I never did catch that name but will ask again on Monday. I like Hung Ga but wish we had more than just Forms. He does explain and ask if we have questions. Sure wish there was more hands on approach though. Each class we cover 2 maybe 3 forms.

You learn 2 or 3 forms a class?? Thats a little weird. You guys don't do any Chi Sauo or application drills?

7sm

 

[don bohrer]

7sm,

No, It's all been just forms. They do a little push hands for those learning tai chi, but not on a regular basis.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by don bohrer
7sm,

No, It's all been just forms. They do a little push hands for those learning tai chi, but not on a regular basis.

Have they said anything about you getting to do it later on in your studies? My school doesn't allow it for quite a while, but we do it ALOT after that.

That sounds weird if you don't do any hands or anything, seems almost without application.

7sm

 

[Bod]

It depends on what you mean by a form, and doing a form.

From the short time I spent in two separate CMA schools, they tended to teach two or three movements from the form, or move you through the whole of a form, but concentrating on two or three moves. The form wasn't seen as finished at that point though, you learned a bit more each week.

The worst habits that sparring can impart, are the jumping in and out without a root, which will get you thrown by a grappler.

The coiling/springing action is quite normal, and will become smaller as you progress. The earlier lessons are all about developing root and learning the complex motor skills needed to develop CMA style power. It won't come quickly.

It is also natural to start a beginner off on the external styles before training the internal styles.