What is a teacher's job

[Martial Tucker]

The question is: Other than teaching the techniques specific to an art, what is the job of a teacher in terms of instilling martial values/ethics/responsiblity in a student?

Assuming you are dealing with an adult student who presumably already has an established set of values and ethics, should a good martial arts teacher attempt to "shape" those pre-existing attitudes into something appropriate for the "martial knowledge" they are going to be learning, or is it unrealistic to expect to have much of an "attitude impact" when dealing with an adult?

I know my teacher speaks often of "martial values" and tradition and responsiblity, but it is more as if he is stating his opinion than trying to actively change attitudes in his class. He does that in another way: Anyone who comes in to our and school acts in a manner inconsistent with the martial values/responsiblity that our teacher espouses is sent packing rather quickly.
In other words, our teacher considers himself more of a "gatekeeper" than an
"attitude shaper".

I'm curious what other people's teachers do in this area, and what you think he/she should do?

 

[Mark Lynn]

I think with adults you can be an example of the right martial attitude/values/ethics etc. etc. but you can't shape them. Maybe in the far east but I don't think in the western nations.

There might be a different attitude towards the students there and from the students towards the instructors. Here the student (IMHO) (in the U.S.A.) is wanting a need fullfilled so they attend class to meet that need. If you don't meet the perconceived need because you are trying to shape them then they will walk out the door and go somewhere else.

The longer the students stay with you the more likely you might have a chance to affect their lives in a positive manner/way and have a chance to shape or mold them.

I know my karate instructor did to us his private students. But for some it took many many years. For my students I tend to be more of a gate keeper per say than changing anyone.

Mark

 

[TigerWoman]

Same for my school. The instructor/master has his keys to success (his) and tenets of TKD up on the wall. Everyone is expected to know them, recite them and then know what they mean. Lately, he has also added a 1-2-3 page paper depending on your age upon a moral value for each test. I have seen him suspend or not give rank, take away rank to students when there is a issue like respect, self control, humility. Some have not come back. My instructor also espouses Christian values, like forgiveness. As a 47 year old joining his school, did he influence me? Did he change my values + or - . No, I don't think so.

But because of this position of teacher, if you teach humility, respect, forgiveness, integrity, self control, then you better follow that thin line and be the person you expect others to be or at least be able to have the humility to regain respect if you slip. No one is perfect, no teacher is perfect. But it is on him/her to lead by example if he wants the respect to be given to him. I think my teacher is a gate keeper lst, a Christian converter 2nd and an "character" shaper 3rd. He failed on the last. TW

 

[mj-hi-yah]

My instructor is a wonderful person. I don't think that he consciously attempts to change values in his students, but he is a man who lives by example. Definitely not a "do as I say not as I do kind of person." The head instructor sets the tone for behavior in a school, and my instructor always remains respectful even when there have been those who might challenge him. He really teaches by example. The way he lives his life and the way he treats people is always with great dignity. He works to build confidence in his students and he does not allow the business aspect of running his school to be foremost. He is very descent that way, and as a result has many students who are dedicated in their training.

MJ :asian:

 

[kenpo tiger]

Agreed, MJ. He is definitely a decent person and an all-round nice guy. Would give you the shirt off his back. And, he is 100% approachable, no matter what may be going on in his personal life (and we usually have an idea of what that is!) Seriously, after training in schools with poor excuses for human beings (but great martial artists skill-wise), it's nice to know that if you cut this guy, he [might] bleed [if exposed to kryptonite.]

The kids especially love him, and you can't fool kids.

 

[Rob Broad]

Lead by example, follow by choice.

If the instructor is leading by setting the example, then people will follow by their own volition.

 

[pete]

Lead by example, follow by choice.

.... and always from a safe distance!

objects in rear view mirror may appear closer than they are...

pete

 

[mj-hi-yah]

The kids especially love him, and you can't fool kids.

They do, and that is sooo true - you can't fool them!

 

[MichiganTKD]

Speaking as a traditional Tae Kwon Do instructor, it is my belief that an instructor's job is similar to that of a father: guide his students' progress not just in class but through life. My Instructor has taken an active interest in all of our lives, from coming to class, to making sure we finish school, to making sure we get good jobs, to making sure our lives are honorable. Not providing us with good jobs or education (although he has provided jobs for some students in his various businesses), but pushing us to better ourselves and make sure our own students turn out right. For this I and we owe him a gratitude we will never be able to repay. Many of us came from less than desirable home lives. Our Grandmaster provided us with the parental role model that a lot of us didn't get when we were younger. And I try to do the same thing with my students. My job and responsibility is to work to make sure that, as students they work hard and try. As citizens they lead honorable lives and try to better themselves. This is not an easy job to assume or carry out. It takes patience and commitment.

 

[Phoenix44]

Lead by example, follow by choice.

Yeah. I think you've got to walk your talk. Also, if you're serious about the spirituality and morality of the martial arts, then exposing your students to appropriate teachings would be helpful, too. People may be interested, but not know where to look. You can show them.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

My instructor is a wonderful person. I don't think that he consciously attempts to change values in his students, but he is a man who lives by example. Definitely not a "do as I say not as I do kind of person." The head instructor sets the tone for behavior in a school, and my instructor always remains respectful even when there have been those who might challenge him. He really teaches by example. The way he lives his life and the way he treats people is always with great dignity. He works to build confidence in his students and he does not allow the business aspect of running his school to be foremost. He is very descent that way, and as a result has many students who are dedicated in their training.

I've said it before, I'll say it again... Wordy McWord. (lol)

This sounds like both my former instructor in Hapkido years ago, and the general attitude of some of the instructors I've worked with. Personally, because I can occasionally dig my heels in and be contrary when I feel that someone is trying to SHOVE me where they want me, the "lead by example" works very well.

In general, I don't think an instructor should try to impose a specific morality or set of rules on his or her students. I do think general rules, like respect, self-control, kindness, hard work - those are all important. But if my instructor started prostelytizing, I'd be... not receptive, to say the least.

 

[TigerWoman]

I've said it before, I'll say it again... Wordy McWord. (lol)

This sounds like both my former instructor in Hapkido years ago, and the general attitude of some of the instructors I've worked with. Personally, because I can occasionally dig my heels in and be contrary when I feel that someone is trying to SHOVE me where they want me, the "lead by example" works very well.

In general, I don't think an instructor should try to impose a specific morality or set of rules on his or her students. I do think general rules, like respect, self-control, kindness, hard work - those are all important. But if my instructor started prostelytizing, I'd be... not receptive, to say the least.

Ditto that. My instructor is late for class and says he was proseletyzing!!! My instructor is on record for saying no instructor shall teach for him unless he is a Christian. My instructor says TKD is secondary to proseletyzing. TW

 

[Feisty Mouse]

TigerWoman - wow. I would...not deal with that well. I'd probably be very childish and bait him on theological debates. lol. I wouldn't last long in that environment!

 

[kenpo tiger]

I doubt I would train with someone who was always trying to convert me.

Just teach me martial arts. Stay out of my personal life, thank you.

 

[pete]

Just teach me martial arts. Stay out of my personal life.

FINALLY!!!! i'm so excited i used uppercase for about the third time in my life!

that's all he/she is expected to do... be a a kuh-roddy instructa. not a role model, not a priest, not a life mentor, not a father, mother, sister, brother... stay outta my personal life, and by all means keep me out of yours... there is a thing called too much information.

my wife and i will parent our kids, and if i need professional help i'll seek a professional... don't want a plumber touchin' the circuit breakers.

not that some good ol' fashioned friendship wouldn't be nice, but wouldn't that go for everyone we pass through this life with...neighbors, cousins, coaches, teammates, bosses, co-workers, teachers, students, the guy sitting next to you on the bus...

rock on kenpo tiger~

pete.

 

[Andrew Green]

Same as a coach for any other sport...

Although perhaps we should require better sportsmanship as that seems to be lacking in so many sports nowadays...

 

[bdparsons]

The question is: Other than teaching the techniques specific to an art, what is the job of a teacher in terms of instilling martial values/ethics/responsiblity in a student?

I think your mixing oil and water here. Ethics and responsibility are taught; values are developed, shaped, or reinforced from what you are taught.

A martial arts instructor has an obligation to teach eithcs and responsibility to students to help them to realize the accountability that goes along with what they are learning. This is where the line is drawn between teaching "sport" and teaching a method of self-defense. If self-defense is being taught then teaching these things is is a reflection of how the instructor is held accountable.

It really comes down to a distinction of whether studying the martial arts is something you "DO" or whether a martial artist is something you "ARE".


Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[Phoenix44]

Bill makes a very good point. We aren't teaching and learning basketweaving. We're teaching something which can be used for good or extreme evil, and I agree that we should be teaching and modeling the responsibility and respect that go along with it.

Also, many parents start their children in the martial arts specifically for this type of teaching and behavior.

But neither would I tolerate proselytizing.

 

[kenpo tiger]

FINALLY!!!! i'm so excited i used uppercase for about the third time in my life!

that's all he/she is expected to do... be a a kuh-roddy instructa. not a role model, not a priest, not a life mentor, not a father, mother, sister, brother... stay outta my personal life, and by all means keep me out of yours... there is a thing called too much information.

rock on kenpo tiger~

pete.

Thank you, my brother. We've talked about this many times. (Miss your nifty avatar. Aw, c'mon. Put it back.) KT

 

[Mark Lynn]

Ditto that. My instructor is late for class and says he was proseletyzing!!! My instructor is on record for saying no instructor shall teach for him unless he is a Christian. My instructor says TKD is secondary to proseletyzing. TW

I would disagree with this "TKD is secondary to proseletyzing" if he is teaching TKD and the students are paying for it.

As a christian, I came up in my instructor's dojo and he was/is a christian as well, in fact several of the students all turned out to be believers. Now I can look back and see that GOD led me to him as an instructor and that HE led all of us to our instructor. However our instructor didn't preach to us or convert us through TKD rather the few individuals (maybe 1 or 2 that I know of) that did come to saving faith at the dojo did so because of the relationship that our instructor had built with them over the years. He walked the walk and talked the talk but he didn't preach, he prayed for us and kept in contact with us when some like myself moved off, he supprted us when we needed moral support or guidence etc. etc. This made the people at the dojo all closer than our families for many of us.

When I started teaching at the YMCA I asked the head of the TKD Association (I was with) who is also a christian about proclaiming my faith. He told me that this was dangerous in the sense that you don't want to get into hero whorship and have someone proclaim Christ because of the instructor (ultimately leading in false assurance). And that if you are teaching TKD than teach TKD, you can proclaim or state you faith but that shouldn't be the main thrust of your class.

Mark