What hapens when TKD does not resemble TKD

[Manny]

Last night I went to dojang to talk sambunim because I have been absent for a a week or so, sambonim wasn't there, so the class was in the hands of the sambonim's son and the dojang was crowded. I take a look say hellow to my fellow classmates and for a moment I see all the kids were doing high kicks and high kicks combos. I felt very terrible, I no longer can kick that level of high with that proficency.

My TKD right now is puches and torso level kicks, and yes hand techs,trows,arm locks,etc, but basically my TKD is basic kicks at torso level, and I fell unhappy cause all we know TKD is a kicking art with fancy or acrobatic or aerial kicks, my tkd is more like karate not tkd.

What's next? I can't do fancy kicks and sometimes I get sad about it cause sometimes I fell I can show up as a TKDing cause my TKD apears so poor about kicking techs.

Manny

 

[dancingalone]

Manny, my friend, you are the Hamlet of taekwondo. To be or not to be...

I realize you have long ties with this school/instructor, but I really think it's time to cut the rope. It's evident from your posts over the years that you're actually unhappy training there despite your fondness for the kids and other students at the dojang. I would switch over to kenpo full-time for a while and strive to engrain the kenpo mentality within yourself.

Either that or find a 'better' TKD school to train at since you harbor a lot of love of TKD itself.

 

[terryl965]

Manny what Dancingalone is saying sounds right to me, sometimes we must go forward to understand what it is that we are really wanting from the arts. I have done this myself thoughout the years and it has helped me grow to who I am today, whether that is good or bad for others is another matter but it was good yo me and that is what really counts in the end.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Last night I went to dojang to talk sambunim because I have been absent for a a week or so, sambonim wasn't there, so the class was in the hands of the sambonim's son and the dojang was crowded. I take a look say hellow to my fellow classmates and for a moment I see all the kids were doing high kicks and high kicks combos. I felt very terrible, I no longer can kick that level of high with that proficency.

My TKD right now is puches and torso level kicks, and yes hand techs,trows,arm locks,etc, but basically my TKD is basic kicks at torso level, and I fell unhappy cause all we know TKD is a kicking art with fancy or acrobatic or aerial kicks, my tkd is more like karate not tkd.

What's next? I can't do fancy kicks and sometimes I get sad about it cause sometimes I fell I can show up as a TKDing cause my TKD apears so poor about kicking techs.

Manny

Doesn't sound like there's any problem with your TKD, just sounds like there may be a problem with an expectation (yours, your instructors, other students, non-practitioners, whomever) of what TKD is or should be.

 

[d1jinx]

WARNING***** SMART *** REMARK APPROACHING*****

"What happens when TKD does not resemble TKD?"

Its called "karate, or American Taekwondo", or someother generic term!

 

[KELLYG]

Let me ask you something. I have am currently having some of the same issues trying to rap my mind around what I see, in others, and what I can do. Which would you rather see a kid kicking to the moon but with poor technique or a person that is kicking lower with good technique? Who is going to me more effective in the end?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

WARNING***** SMART *** REMARK APPROACHING*****

"What happens when TKD does not resemble TKD?"

Its called "karate, or American Taekwondo", or someother generic term!

Or it goes to the olympics.

Daniel

 

[d1jinx]

Let me ask you something. I have am currently having some of the same issues trying to rap my mind around what I see, in others, and what I can do. Which would you rather see a kid kicking to the moon but with poor technique or a person that is kicking lower with good technique? Who is going to me more effective in the end?

Good technique of course......

but there are those who believe, that getting the kids to kick Hi and showcase their flexability first, then over time they will develope the proper technique... NOT ME THOUGH.

Just trying to cover both sides, but i know what you mean... i see kids who feet randomly fly over their heads and think. WTF? (not the ORG) if they can do that, why isnt thier instructor showing them the proper technique... they should be the easiest to fix.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Last night I went to dojang to talk sambunim because I have been absent for a a week or so, sambonim wasn't there, so the class was in the hands of the sambonim's son and the dojang was crowded. I take a look say hellow to my fellow classmates and for a moment I see all the kids were doing high kicks and high kicks combos. I felt very terrible, I no longer can kick that level of high with that proficency.

My TKD right now is puches and torso level kicks, and yes hand techs,trows,arm locks,etc, but basically my TKD is basic kicks at torso level, and I fell unhappy cause all we know TKD is a kicking art with fancy or acrobatic or aerial kicks, my tkd is more like karate not tkd.

What's next? I can't do fancy kicks and sometimes I get sad about it cause sometimes I fell I can show up as a TKDing cause my TKD apears so poor about kicking techs.

Manny

I will tell you what I tell my students: kick correctly as high as you comfortably can when practicing "high kicks" rather than overreaching and delivering a poor kick. If low is ankles, middle is knees, and your high is torso, then so be it. Do it correctly, with power, and with snap. Each time you practice, try to do the kicks correctly just a little higher each time. You may never get the height that a sixteen year old the same height as you can, but you can get a personal best.

Kelly was right on the money about an effective low kick versus an ineffective high kick. Not to mention that those head level kicks are generally considered poor choices in self defense. Also, most of the forms in taekwondo do not require you to do vertical splits. People just do them because it looks cool.

Lastly, remember that the purpose of a martial art is not to straight jacket you but to provide you with tools to use. Use those tools in the way that suits you rather than in the way that suits someone else. Each person's taekwondo looks different from that of those around them. They look the same in the sense that they are doing the same techniques and the same set of forms. But each person is unique and will focus on different techniques.

From your posts, I always get the feeling that you have a very strong love of taekwondo. Remember that your taekwondo will change with you. Taekwondo is an art that you can do for life. As you get older, you grow and mature. Likewise, your taekwondo will do the same.

Just keep training. Don't compare yourself to the kiddies. You are an adult. If you are in my age range (I'm forty three next week), chances are that you will not have the flexibility that you did when you were younger (I do, but I was never very flexible to begin with, so that isn't saying much, lol.), and you may not have the speed. But you will have more of an immediacy to your techniques that only comes from years of training.

Do what you do the best that you can. Who needs high kicks when you can throw hurtin' bombs at their torso and knees?

Daniel

 

[Manny]

Manny, my friend, you are the Hamlet of taekwondo. To be or not to be...

I realize you have long ties with this school/instructor, but I really think it's time to cut the rope. It's evident from your posts over the years that you're actually unhappy training there despite your fondness for the kids and other students at the dojang. I would switch over to kenpo full-time for a while and strive to engrain the kenpo mentality within yourself.

Either that or find a 'better' TKD school to train at since you harbor a lot of love of TKD itself.

.

It's not easy quite TKD, I have a nice relationship master-pupil with my sambunim, I really care from the children and moms, however it's very sad to me not trying to stay at the same phisic and tecnical level than the youngsters, I feel like an old man trying to chase 20 year kids.

I will take some days (sambunim is out of town for one week) and think more abou this, I want to earn my second dan bb, i don't wana be a 1 dan for ever.

Manny

 

[ATC]

Let me ask you something. I have am currently having some of the same issues trying to rap my mind around what I see, in others, and what I can do. Which would you rather see a kid kicking to the moon but with poor technique or a person that is kicking lower with good technique? Who is going to me more effective in the end?

Why box in or only set 2 expectations? Why can't the kid kick to the moon with good technique also? I see low kicks all day with bad technique just as I see low kicks with good technique. Just the same I see high kicks with good technique as well as high kicks with bad technique.

Now if you cannot kick high then don't. You should only kick as high as you can with good technique. This is what you need to do Manny. I have a hip issue on my left side and can only kick about chest high on a 6'0" or so person. So on my left side my kicks never go higher than mid section. However my right leg is still good for now and can kick to the head no problem, so that is what I use when kicking to the head, my right. When we do line kicks I make sure to kick both legs only as high as my worst leg. Looks better this way.

Manny, you sound like this 65 year old man we have in the dojang. He looks at the kids and want to do all that they do. I keep telling him that what he sees 12-25 year olds do is not what he can do. He needs to work within his limits. But he keeps pushing to no avail. Great spirit and drive but his body will not allow him to do these things anymore.

I went to this persons house one day and saw photos of him when he was in his 20's. He was a red belt in the photos and he was ripped (in great shape). He had photos of him doing jumping kick really high and all other kinds of amazing techniques. He had brick breaking photos of himself and everything. I was really impressed to see him at 20 and doing things that I could not imagine seeing him today at 65.

I know his pain but time runs us all down and we must accecpt that. I look at my 10 year old son and get frustrated all the time as I cannot run with him any more. I use to do mid 5 minute mile times but now can only do high 7 minute miles. My 10 year old son is doing low 7's high 6's. I can't believe I can't beat him but I can't. And he will only get faster as I will only get slower. That is life.

Just do what you can and do it well. That is all you can do my friend.

 

[KELLYG]

Why box in or only set 2 expectations? Why can't the kid kick to the moon with good technique also? I see low kicks all day with bad technique just as I see low kicks with good technique. Just the same I see high kicks with good technique as well as high kicks with bad technique.


I understand what you are saying. I know from my point of view that if I could preform a High kick with good form I most certainly would. What I was trying to suggest is that technique is more important than height and the height of a kick is dependant on the individuals flexibility.

 

[dortiz]

If you want to kick someone in the head, knock him down!

 

[terryl965]

If you want to kick someone in the head, knock him down!

No No No!!!! if you want to kick someone in the head knock them out!!!!!!

 

[StudentCarl]

This is just a perseverence bump in the road.

All that you are and teach is an important part of taekwondo. If this was not so, there would be no grandmasters over 40. Is there a lesson in this?

Perseverence despite the challenges of age?
Pride in your progress compared to your potential, not some kid.--What message does this send to the young, unathletic kid, who sees that an "old man" works hard, enjoys, and is humble enough to continue to learn?
That we are never too old to be a student, which to me means being young-in-mind (open minded)?
Indomitable spirit to know that you are more than the height of a kick. Are you no longer growing in any part of your taekwondo?
What matters more, how far you get or that you give it your all?

There's a green belt at my school with one leg and an artificial one.
Should we tell him 'don't bother'?

Let the kids inspire you with their joy for living and instead value your hard won experience and wisdom. Their respect for you isn't based on how high you kick anyway!

Carl

 

[Marginal]

Just going at it on a bio-mechanical level, your kicks are strongest off the hip anyway. TKD isn't defined by high kicks, it's defined by emphasizing kicks as the primary attacking tool.

If you can kick high, great. If you can't you're still doing TKD as long as you retain that strategic focus.

 

[Manny]

Nice replies all and thank you all my friends. I can tell you the kicks I can still doing at head level (6' tall) are the ones in the family of the ax kick, I mean the crescent inward and outward kicks, the front kick it's easy if I do a good warm up the roundhouse to the head is very difficult I loose my balance and can aline my hips correctly kicking high, my side kick well almost head level, the kicks that I can not perform are the jumping/spining kicks I would never do a tornado kick for example.

It-s easier to me do combos using midsection kicks but doing combos at head level its very dificult and some times hurts.

I can not do full splits, and my range of flexibility and movement is not spectacular, howevere when I do my own warm up I can kick decently.

Seeing the kids fly,kick high and jumping spininig around at the dojang sometimes makes me think... Manny what are you doing here??!!????

The trut is I do Martial Art cause I love it, not because a trophy or medal.

Manny

 

[Cirdan]

Manny.. all matadors know it is the old bulls that are most dangerous, and it is not because they got high flashy kicks.

 

[Aikicomp]

I will tell you what I tell my students: kick correctly as high as you comfortably can when practicing "high kicks" rather than overreaching and delivering a poor kick. If low is ankles, middle is knees, and your high is torso, then so be it. Do it correctly, with power, and with snap. Each time you practice, try to do the kicks correctly just a little higher each time. You may never get the height that a sixteen year old the same height as you can, but you can get a personal best.

Kelly was right on the money about an effective low kick versus an ineffective high kick. Not to mention that those head level kicks are generally considered poor choices in self defense. Also, most of the forms in taekwondo do not require you to do vertical splits. People just do them because it looks cool.

Lastly, remember that the purpose of a martial art is not to straight jacket you but to provide you with tools to use. Use those tools in the way that suits you rather than in the way that suits someone else. Each person's taekwondo looks different from that of those around them. They look the same in the sense that they are doing the same techniques and the same set of forms. But each person is unique and will focus on different techniques.

From your posts, I always get the feeling that you have a very strong love of taekwondo. Remember that your taekwondo will change with you. Taekwondo is an art that you can do for life. As you get older, you grow and mature. Likewise, your taekwondo will do the same.

Just keep training. Don't compare yourself to the kiddies. You are an adult. If you are in my age range (I'm forty three next week), chances are that you will not have the flexibility that you did when you were younger (I do, but I was never very flexible to begin with, so that isn't saying much, lol.), and you may not have the speed. But you will have more of an immediacy to your techniques that only comes from years of training.

Do what you do the best that you can. Who needs high kicks when you can throw hurtin' bombs at their torso and knees?

Daniel

Manny, This statement by Daniel was exactly what I was thinking (more or less) when I first read your post, and I also tell my students.......do what techniques you can... the best you can and the rest will take care of itself.

You and I and many others on this board are TEACHERS! that is more important than worrying about how high you can kick. We have an obligation (Giri in Japanese) to impart our knowledge to our students so the arts do not die (no matter what art it may be) and to help people get through life.

Do you think that your students like you because you can kick high? or punch fast?

No.......

I do not think so.

The reason is that you show a true love for the art you practice and teach, as well as, a true concern and care for the students in learning what you teach.

I started Ju-Jitsu when I was 18 and now I'm 46 and have been teaching for 20+ years. There were questions I had to ask myself at a certain point:

Are my throws, locks and goundwork as fast as they were?...Nope.

Are my kicks and punches as fast and as high as they were?....nope.

Am I as limber as I was?.....nope.


On the other hand......



Can I execute the tecniques properly and more precisely and get the most out of the tecniques with the least exertion?....yes.

Can I teach my art competently and completely?.....yes.

Can I show how much I care for the art and my students?....yes.

Can I impart that knowledge to them?.....Yes.


Think about that and ask yourself.......which of the two is more important?

I did and that's why I continue to teach.

Michael

 

[Ironcrane]

I saw a really old black, and white video somewhere, of Taekwondo being demonstrated. And they were using a lot of punches. And even though some of them were doing high kicks, none of them were doing any fancy, twirling kicks. Given that, I don't think you're to far removed from your art.