What does a Black Belt mean to you?

[SFC JeffJ]

Me and my wife, (I'm an ikkyu getting ready to test for shodan in may, and she's a sandan), were talking about the meaning of a Black Belt when she came home from work this morning. I tend to have a very bare bones idea of what it means, and she has a more philisophical one.

What are your ideas on the meaning of a black belt, or your styles equivalent? Any stuff out there besides having a good grasp of the basics? Does your style have any deeper symbolism attached to it?

Just curious about your thoughts on the matter.

Sorry if this has been done before, tried doing a search for it but I'm pretty dense when it comes to such matters.

 

[terryl965]

All it has ever meant in my book is ok you have learned enough to be profecient at the basic, your real training begans now.
Terry

 

[stickarts]

For us, it means you have a solid base in your art (foundation), have done at least a bit of teaching, or experience assisting a teacher, have used your skills in a positive manner (set a good example), and have shown a strong spirit by passing the test, which is a demanding one.
After blackbelt, although you continue to learn more, it is also about getting deeper understanding of application and helping others.
Lots more can be said but that is some of the basic ideas! :0)

 

[kickcatcher]

To me it means pretty much nothing. If someone is a blackbelt in certain arts I automatically assume they are very good, but that's more a reflection of my estimation of the training inherent with those arts rather than the belt.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Today the meaning is different? The training is not as intense like the old days. The requirments in most schools is alot easier today.

When you research and read about what the training was like 20-100 years ago, today it is really the minumum.

Things like how they would do one Kata for hours, working for perfection. Hundreds of kicks and punches everyday.

I remember reading how GI's in Okinawa who just join the MA classes in the first couple of weeks..end up crawling out of the 3-4 hour long MA classes. The gi's were soaked.

Kinda of like a basic train soldier vs the Navy Seals? Both are soldiers....which one would you like to attack?

These are just my opinions...NOT neccessary accurate OK?

There is a school here that trains with full contact, many of the students quit...but those who stay...whew! ...they are tough! ....Aloha

 

[bushidomartialarts]

a black belt means you know enough to start learning.

 

[kickcatcher]

a black belt means you know enough to start learning.

No offense at all, but I've begun to see that sort of cliche as more of a myth than anything else - it is often used to imply that the real stuff and/or wisdom is only for people who are beyond blackbelt - yet there is rarely any tangible evidence of just what this (by implication superior) teaching is. Sure some groups have a post-blackbelt syllabus, so in that sense the blackelts within those groups learn different stuff than the sub-blackbelts, but are we really to supose that one must obtain a blackbelt before one can reasonably start learning whatever the secrets are?

 

[Flying Crane]

To me, it means you are serious about, and committed to, your training. It also implies a certain level of proficiency, but not necessarily mastery. Some people show better proficiency than others of the same rank, however.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I tend to agree with most of you. It's just a reference point of having a good grasp of the basics. As far as secrets go, my instructor is very clear there are no secrets, just advanced applications of what we've learned in the basics. Wasn't a black belt originally just that you trained for a long time and it got dirty? My wife tries to read some symbolism in it, I think because one of her instructors was/is a psuedo intellectual and spurts crap like that like it's going out of fashion. He's a nice guy, really good fighter, but he likes to mysticize about everything in reach.

 

[kickcatcher]

Jeff, Belt ranking was invented by Kano (founder of Judo) in the late 1800s, possibly influenced by the general education system. There is no definite evidence as to whether the colours of the belts was symbolic. It's main purpose was to provide a formal and immediately identifiable hierarchy - a general theme within Japanese society at that time. Only over time since then has the concept has spread to other arts and people have started constructing the grade-syllabus type teaching structure.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

LOL. Almsot exactly what I told my wife.

 

[beau_safken]

Hmm wouldn't really know...

I have never officially recieved a BB so I don't really know the feeling. Granted my instructors have wanted me to test for it a lot, but I just never thought I was competant enough to do it. I'm just a little anal about learning all I can about the small lessons in the forms. All the small moves are usually the ones that hurt the worst and make a massive difference.

I would see person after person test and get their BB and then think they had balls of steel. One round of sparring with me the little blue belt usually allowed for the necessary thought processes to return to their brain.

It just seems to me to be another arbitrary thing to encourage people to stay longer. Oh hell ya, I got the Muave belt with polka dots baby...next its gonna be the Blue with black stripes. Skill and proper application are the real value of rank, not a 10 dollar belt.

 

[Bigshadow]

beginner's belt, anything before that is just preparation for the journey.

 

[kickcatcher]

beginner's belt, anything before that is just preparation for the journey.

I don't know how that was meant, but that sounds like showing off.

 

[Bigshadow]

I don't know how that was meant, but that sounds like showing off.

It is not meant that way, in fact it is quite the opposite. It is a humble statement. Just depends on your perception. It means just as other's have stated, this is the point you begin to truely learn. All that came before was preparation. Showing off is an entirely different thing.

 

[kickcatcher]

It is not meant that way, in fact it is quite the opposite. It is a humble statement. Just depends on your perception. It means just as other's have stated, this is the point you begin to truely learn. All that came before was preparation. Showing off is an entirely different thing.

Sorry I misread your comment. I do think it's a bit belittleling to sub-blackbelts, or indeed people from arts without belts, to say that the "real" learning comes after. It may in some arts due to their syllabus structure, but I don't think it is anywhere near a universal truth.

I personally think that the wisest martial artists tend to be people with a broad range of experiences, such as if they've cross-trained many styles, or worked in confrontational lines of work etc. I've met BJJ Blue Belts who's every tiny observation is filled with insight that made me think "wow, this guy really sees things in perspective". If I want to know about self-disciplin, I'd sooner listen to a Muay Thai guy with three fights under his belt, than a 5th dan who can talk it but has never actually had to push themselves beyond the "routine" threshold.

Attributing wisdom to belt ranks is a very style-insular approach IMO.

 

[Marginal]

Sorry I misread your comment. I do think it's a bit belittleling to sub-blackbelts, or indeed people from arts without belts, to say that the "real" learning comes after.

I think the concept's largely reserved to arts with a set ranking that recognizes a certain level of maturity and ability. Meaning that the real training meant is only the training within that particular art. This is admitttedly a horrible comparison, but think of the transition to professional in boxing etc. There's a definite step up involved along the way.

If I want to know about self-disciplin, I'd sooner listen to a Muay Thai guy with three fights under his belt, than a 5th dan who can talk it but has never actually had to push themselves beyond the "routine" threshold.

Hopefully you just don't presume such simply because he is a fifth dan. That would be silly.

Attributing wisdom to belt ranks is a very style-insular approach IMO.

Not really. At its core, the belt ranking is just a bookmark for an instructor. Getting a BB doesn't make you any different than you were before. Real training starting at BB mainly involves you tossing whatever conceptual model of what a BB should be into your training up to that point. That tends to increase one's motivation and effort put in. But it's not universal.

 

[tkd_jen]

An opinion from a red belt (me )

My instructor often tells the stories of 2nd, 3rd, 4th Dan Black Belts she has trained. She talks about how much the students' skills, forms, techniques, etc actually improve the 1st year after they reach 1st Dan. This is due to not having the pressure to test for next color belt, not having to memorize all the material, etc. After attaining 1st Dan, they seem to relax a bit. Not relax their training, but their mind somehow. They have more desire to not just know they technique, but know the technique well and the theory behind it. Of course this is all true for them as color belts but it just seems to come easier when they are not constantly preparing for the next test. Of course this all sounds so much better coming from my instructor and I did not do it justice explaining it in my own words but hopefully it still makes sense.

Also, earning a Black Belt to me means a lot. I know not a better feeling in the world than having my instructor refer to me as 'one of her Black Belts.' I was allowed to attend her testing for 5th Dan and it reminded me of a saying I heard once (here I think actually). It was 'you can tell how hard someone has worked for their Black Belt by how hard they make others work to earn theirs.' Her performance on that test put the years of training under her into a new perspective. All the sweat and pushups, doing technique over and over until correct--wow if I ever perform like she did on that test, I will be ecstatic.

 

[stone_dragone]

When I was in high school, I was convinced that the end-all, be-all of life, that singular point in my distant future that would shine in my memory as the culmination of my being would be Graduation day; the day that I became one of the CVHS alumni.

My senior year was filled with anticipation, understanding, motivation...I was the top of the heap! As that final Friday drew closer, I could feel the energy building in a fantastic crecendo! When the day finally came for me to cross that stage and accept my due reward I was firm, I was strong, I was the MAN....

Then the hardest thing ever happened; something that I NEVER saw coming...

Saturday came.... As it turns out, life just kept on going.

And there was a whole lot more of it then I thought, too.

I think that it's the same way for a lot of people training in a martial art system that has belts.

For many[obviously not all], the end all, be all of training is to get a Black Belt. They work hard, study hard, practice, practice and practice some more. Then they get to brown belt (senior year) and they are the top of the heap. Training gets harder in preparation for black belt and so does the student. Many hours goes into getting ready and then comes the test (graduation). After passing and being promoted to black belt, the student feels on top of the world and would probably kill to keep their newly earned prize. Maybe not the day after, maybe not the week after, but eventually Saturday will come and the student will realize that there is so much more out there. Now they have a license to LEARN.

Some are motivated by belts. Some may not have that as a goal, and thats good (running with one eye on the prize means that both eyes aren't on the road).

I earned my shodan, nidan and sandan (current) in an "old-school" dojo (other post refers to "old school" as taking pride in the small number of black belts earned due to the severity of the training and the test).

To me, the cloth around my waist when I train is irrelevent now; oftentimes I wear a plain white belt with my karategi (to keep the top closed...my ties tore off several years back). I do, however, take pride in being part of a small fraternity; an "elite" group. The camaraderie is where I get my greatest joy now. There is a definite camaraderie with all the students in that class and in my own school, but there is a special camaraderie among folks that have done the same thing, the same [hard]way you have. That's what a black belt means to me.

Sorry for rambling...

 

[still learning]

Hello, To Stone dragone,...well said...the next day life goes on! ....but you now have a new responsiblity as a Black Belt. There is certain amount of expectations from you as a BB, one being a good role model, protector,. mature person,ethical, and noble. Things people expect to see?

So we must see things from the other person point of view of "what a BB means too? This may influence what it means to us also..?

Do you represent the Black belt truly....? ....Truly yours.. ..Aloha