Weapons and Wing Chun

[Si-Je]

Do you apply WC/WT principles to your favorite weapons? Or just stick to the traditional WC/WT weaponry?
If you do apply WC/WT to other types of weapons, how do you do it?

 

[bs10927]

i just started learning Eskrima and so far, i can say i've used a pak sao when drilling with the knife. With a single stick, i guess it could be considered i use an (inside?) pak with the stick before checking the hand and striking.
Then with empty hand we've done a drill where I would pak (with left hand) the right thrown at me then check the hand like a lop sau (with my right) and then throw a left elbow up into their elbow as if to break it.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Great question, Actually the weapons in Wing Chun were added later by different people. The short swords and pole were not originally apart of Wing Chun. I don't have the history in front of me right now but I will soon get it for you guys on who introduced the two weapons.

An the founder of my lineage also using darts as weapons.

ha ha...

But two things I see you may disagree. But the Short swords form can also used as blade hand form. Or empty hand form if you will. You can use your hands to chop or thrust your opponent. But it will be more effective if your condition your fingers and hands to be like iron when clashing.

Another thing is with the short sword one could use two broad swords the same way. Or two samauri swords in a similair way.

Another weapon would be a spear. The staff weapon is grandfather of all weapons. The spear is father of all weapons. So that means the Spear can be used or adapted the same way the staff is used in Pole form.

These are just some things I observe.

you can disagree if you like its my humble opinion!

Do you apply WC/WT principles to your favorite weapons? Or just stick to the traditional WC/WT weaponry?
If you do apply WC/WT to other types of weapons, how do you do it?

 

[Si-Je]

i just started learning Eskrima and so far, i can say i've used a pak sao when drilling with the knife. With a single stick, i guess it could be considered i use an (inside?) pak with the stick before checking the hand and striking.
Then with empty hand we've done a drill where I would pak (with left hand) the right thrown at me then check the hand like a lop sau (with my right) and then throw a left elbow up into their elbow as if to break it.

Have you ever tried using tan sau to re-direct say a stabbing attack to the stomach? Maybe to the face/throat too, and then latching the arm as you go into the attacker?
Hubbie likes the pak sau on a knife attack, makes me nervous (have been stabbed right in the palm before, really, really sucks!) I tend to favor the outside bone of my forearm leading towards the blade "area" when deflecting a knife stab, or slash.
But, he's the SF guy, and I'm working on my timidity with pak sau on a knife attack.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Very Intense training I like. Si-Je Do you mean you use bong sau..when you said using the outside bone of forearm?

Have you ever tried using tan sau to re-direct say a stabbing attack to the stomach? Maybe to the face/throat too, and then latching the arm as you go into the attacker?
Hubbie likes the pak sau on a knife attack, makes me nervous (have been stabbed right in the palm before, really, really sucks!) I tend to favor the outside bone of my forearm leading towards the blade "area" when deflecting a knife stab, or slash.
But, he's the SF guy, and I'm working on my timidity with pak sau on a knife attack.

 

[Si-Je]

More like a low tan sau at stomach level. Something I picked up from another teacher years ago.
After I got stabbed in the hand and came to class with my neat little brace, he decided that was a good time to start showing some basic knife deflections. Arrrggghhh, little to little, to late.
Working on hubbie to put more basic knife deflections in earlier charts for students. He's still thinking you have to know how to use a knife to deflect it. I disagree. Basics could be covered to help a student keep it away from them until they could kick or something before teaching hard core knife fighting.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Interesting concepts. I have to get some rubber knives and practice that with my Student. Thats something I haven't been keen on. I usually care some kinda of weapon with me like nunchucks or knives or something. So I never conteplate someone pulling a knife.

I wounder what would happen if you had some butterfly knives concealed on their back an some idiot pull a knife on him. An he pulls out his trusty butterfly knives. I gotta get my aluminum baseball bat from my cousin. I also got a collasble tai chi sword. Its not a weapon per say. But someone pulls a small knife you got extension to poke eyes are swack the attackers hand with out being hit. you can actually buy a case where you can hook the collasple sword on your belt and carry it with you. retracting baton is good to keep in your pocket incase of knife fight. Its a little longer than average knives people pull. Also idea for damaging their knife or hand.

But realistically with a knife I would try to tangle them up with my shirt or swack their hand with my sweater or jacket. An if iit raps around their arm than I can kick them in the knees or kick their hand. I have only done this one. It was anything serious for real. But I was younger like high school and someone was trying to scare me an I quickly turn the tables but that so long ago I barely remeber it.

 

[Si-Je]

I usually care some kinda of weapon with me like nunchucks or knives or something. So I never conteplate someone pulling a knife.

I wounder what would happen if you had some butterfly knives concealed on their back an some idiot pull a knife on him. An he pulls out his trusty butterfly knives. I gotta get my aluminum baseball bat from my cousin. I also got a collasble tai chi sword. Its not a weapon per say. But someone pulls a small knife you got extension to poke eyes are swack the attackers hand with out being hit. you can actually buy a case where you can hook the collasple sword on your belt and carry it with you. retracting baton is good to keep in your pocket incase of knife fight. Its a little longer than average knives people pull. Also idea for damaging their knife or hand.

Your funny! (or are you serious?) Both? lol!
I like the idea of a retractable thing, but, knife fights aren't something that happen often. But, when they do, their quick, and largely unseen. It's not like the movies where they jump out at you and go "Ha! I've got a knife!" and wave it around at you.
You usually don't get to see it until your bleeding.
So, I've found that a few simple deflections can buy you time to kick, or use WC and get control of the body/head to keep from getting stabbed. You really don't want distance from a knife welding dude. (unless you can run somewhere of course)
WC/WT concepts are the same here too. Same with stick, sword, chucks (a good way to disarm chucks is to simply reach out and snatch them from the attacker like a chainpunching motion, especially when their flinging them in frount in a figure 8 motion.) or for whatever weapon.

 

[geezer]

I wounder what would happen if you had some butterfly knives concealed on their back an some idiot pull a knife on him. An he pulls out his trusty butterfly knives...

But realistically with a knife I would try to tangle them up with my shirt or swack their hand with my sweater or jacket. An if iit raps around their arm than I can kick them in the knees or kick their hand...

I train with a couple of guys that really know knives. "Realistically" your best bet is to run like hell. If that doesn't work, grab something big and swing it as hard as you can. No place to run? Nothing to grab or throw? No time? Then you have to use empty hands... and "realistically" that sucks for you. Big time. You say Pak Sau? More like Cut-Sau.. I'm old and slow, and I hate knives. But everytime my instructor pulled out the trainers and said, "Now really try to cut or stab the guy before he can hit you" I could. Now think about what someone who's good with a knife could do. If all you do is catch a blade through your palm like Si-je, it'll be a very good day.

 

[mook jong man]

I train with a couple of guys that really know knives. "Realistically" your best bet is to run like hell. If that doesn't work, grab something big and swing it as hard as you can. No place to run? Nothing to grab or throw? No time? Then you have to use empty hands... and "realistically" that sucks for you. Big time. You say Pak Sau? More like Cut-Sau.. I'm old and slow, and I hate knives. But everytime my instructor pulled out the trainers and said, "Now really try to cut or stab the guy before he can hit you" I could. Now think about what someone who's good with a knife could do. If all you do is catch a blade through your palm like Si-je, it'll be a very good day.

What he said .
I can only add that whatever hand defence you choose to do , also do a body evasion defence . Get out of the path of the weapon and immobilise the weapon arm , then hit him so hard his mother will feel it .

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't think I would reach out to grab a sword out someone hands when they swinging around.

What about ancient viking sword. One mistake aww my fingers-hand-arm is gone...awww its amputated....awwww someone help me

No way am i sticking my hands in the cookie jar to get cut off by a sword.

Your funny! (or are you serious?) Both? lol!
I like the idea of a retractable thing, but, knife fights aren't something that happen often. But, when they do, their quick, and largely unseen. It's not like the movies where they jump out at you and go "Ha! I've got a knife!" and wave it around at you.
You usually don't get to see it until your bleeding.
So, I've found that a few simple deflections can buy you time to kick, or use WC and get control of the body/head to keep from getting stabbed. You really don't want distance from a knife welding dude. (unless you can run somewhere of course)
WC/WT concepts are the same here too. Same with stick, sword, chucks (a good way to disarm chucks is to simply reach out and snatch them from the attacker like a chainpunching motion, especially when their flinging them in frount in a figure 8 motion.) or for whatever weapon.

 

[Si-Je]

lol! ya'll rock!
pak sau will get you cut in vital areas! I agree cut sau
If in a knife confrontation, you WILL get cut. Trick is to make sure you don't get cut on a major vein, artery, or tendon. That's why I favor putting the bone of the forarms in front of your body.
Slam your elbows against the sides of your torso (to cover major kill spots) show the back of the hand to the knife like a tan sau motion.
Don't try to grab the knife arm, or hand. That will definetally get you cut, espectially if they have any inkling on how to use a knife.
Use light touch and sensitivity to "know" where the blade arm is, deflect it, stick with it always (never ever let contact stop, you do and your cut) and make sure your other hand and feet are striking like crazy. I think alot of people get use too much time trying to "control" the knife arm and forget the "general" who's in charge of the knife.
Hubbie's teaching me to use WT's low deflection (can't remember what it's called, we use chit sau from Fung) on a stomach stab.
You step into their stance as your "sweep" the knife arm away and up, following with bui gee to the neck (with knife arm across their body and/or face) as you cancel them out with your stance, body to body, with the knife up in air and the knife arm across their own body. Your at the shoulder/side away from knife.
Then takedown.
Cool knife defense.
Just scary at entry.

 

[bs10927]

Have you ever tried using tan sau to re-direct say a stabbing attack to the stomach? Maybe to the face/throat too, and then latching the arm as you go into the attacker?
Hubbie likes the pak sau on a knife attack, makes me nervous (have been stabbed right in the palm before, really, really sucks!) I tend to favor the outside bone of my forearm leading towards the blade "area" when deflecting a knife stab, or slash.
But, he's the SF guy, and I'm working on my timidity with pak sau on a knife attack.

i like that idea. i can try that next time i do any drills.

 

[Si-Je]

i like that idea. i can try that next time i do any drills.

You could drill it like this: rememeber to flow from one tan sau arm to another. use tan sau to pass the arm across their body, have them come back at your stomach, then take the other arm and tan sau across their body the other way.(i.e. the direction they are slashing at you) go with their momentum. Like threading their arm back and forth.
Stick your butt out backwards to get the tummy out of the way as you do this. Your no longer in WC stance. You have to keep your theighs and stomach out of the way. (unless the butterfly swords do a stance like that, I don't know. It seems they "lunge" more in that form)

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Very Interesting. I would mostly do something different its one on one. I would try to take a boxing stance so the attacker only pays attention to to hands and believes I am going to hit him. When he lunges with the knife I move to side or step back an then kick his wrist as hard as I can with the toe of steel toe shoe. Try to break his wrist or atleast sprain it. So if he is still holding the knife he will not be able to use as much power to jab me with it. Which will limit him to slashing motions. Which Bil Sau against the forearm or jut sau to wrist while punching the nose and throat with inch punches will work nicely. I will also try to kick the hell out his knees every time he steps forward an kick with the edge of my foot against those shins. If I am able try to stamp his ankle as hard as I can and scrape the shin along with that. Then kick in groin if he tries to move in chi sau range.