Turning Side Kick versus Straight Back Kick

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Do you do both kicks, or do you pick one and make that your "back kick"? By straight back kick, I mean with the kicking foot pointed more downwards, and by turning side kick I mean a "back kick" with a little more rotation and the kicking foot more horizontal. I'm working on my "back kick" and I am wondering whether I should work on both or just pick one.

 

[Cyriacus]

Dont pick one - I mean, maybe pick one on a temporary basis, but there are advantages to a "Turning Side Kick".
The Side Kick variation is easier to execute in haste, and thus, a Jumping Turning Side Kick is perhaps easier to do under pressure than a Jumping Turning Back Kick.

Some may also say that the Side Kick version is faster - Personally, i find it to be the other way around, but who knows; Maybe for you, it would be faster.
Now, if your doing a Back Kick for training, do it the Non-Side Kick way. Save the Side Kick way for Sparring.
The Side Kick way can also make it easier to step down, rather than needing to shuffle slightly, after the technique.

It really is a bit subjective. But technically, there is no Turning Side Kick. Thats just doing a Back Kick, only without the 'proper' shape of the foot; Albeit relabeled.

 

[Spookey]

Good Afternoon again,

There is a time and place for each technique. Although I have a different opinion than Cyriacus on the utilization, I certainly agree that neither should be discarded!

For me a Straight Back Kick (Dwi Chagi) is faster and more accurate for quick exchanges in close range as often encountered in sparring, also it keep the target area away from your opponent and leaves your shoulders and body angles to make a quick retreat to put some space between you and your opponent. On the flip side if your opponent likes to retreat a back turning side kick (dwi dollyo yop chagi) puts you in a better position to continue the attack with a follow up kick.

In free fighting, and self defense situations where it is a great idea to punch to the face, the back turning side kick puts you in a position to follow through with a good straight punch to the face!

Determining the time and place for an attack is the key ingredient! Train long, train hard, and train often!

TAE-KWON!

 

[andyjeffries]

Do you do both kicks, or do you pick one and make that your "back kick"? By straight back kick, I mean with the kicking foot pointed more downwards, and by turning side kick I mean a "back kick" with a little more rotation and the kicking foot more horizontal. I'm working on my "back kick" and I am wondering whether I should work on both or just pick one.

We do a back kick as a back kick. We discuss that in the old days people used to use a turning side kick as a back kick but that we don't anymore. We also do a turning side kick when it's required in poomsae (Pyongwon specifically states that it's a Momdollyo Yeop Chagi not a Dwit Chagi).

 

[Spookey]

Andy Jeffries,

I love that your belt says Kukki-Taekwondo. On MAP there is a good discussion on the importance of using the style name not the organizational initials to properly describe the art you study and teach!

 

[andyjeffries]

But technically, there is no Turning Side Kick. Thats just doing a Back Kick, only without the 'proper' shape of the foot; Albeit relabeled.

Have you done Pyongwon? Page 497 of the latest Kukkiwon Textbook specifically says to execute a Momdollyo Yopchagi (typed letter for letter) not a Dwi Chagi.

I also disagree that the Turning Side Kick is easier to execute in haste. I think that depends on which you practice more. As we pretty much exclusively do Dwi Chagi, it would be more awkward/slower for us to execute a Momdollyo Yopchagi.

Note: I think Momdollyo Yopchagi is more powerful and if I was doing destruction I'd chose that, but I'd never think of using it in sparring (for the risk of the opponent countering underneath.

 

[andyjeffries]

I love that your belt says Kukki-Taekwondo. On MAP there is a good discussion on the importance of using the style name not the organizational initials to properly describe the art you study and teach!

Thanks mate

My real-life belt has our school name on one end and my name on the other. To let you down though, it does have the WTF logo on it rather than the Kukkiwon logo (as more people recognise WTF than Kukkiwon). As I said on MAP though, I prefer to tell those who are able to understand it the difference.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I really like both kicks and use both a lot in sparring. I probably prefer the turning side kick and use it a bit more often though.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

We only practice Dwi Dollyo Chagi (we call it a back pivot kick, but it's a back turning side kick), I think what you are calling a back kick, we refer to as a "mule kick," something we don't teach because it tends to be a "blind" technique. "Blind" because it's difficult to get your eyes on the target before the kick is executed, and if it is a "blind" kick then it tends to be harder to control.

However, this is just how it was described to me, and why our instructor never taught it.

 

[Cyriacus]

Wait, im confused...

Good Afternoon again,

There is a time and place for each technique. Although I have a different opinion than Cyriacus on the utilization, I certainly agree that neither should be discarded!

For me a Straight Back Kick (Dwi Chagi) is faster and more accurate for quick exchanges in close range as often encountered in sparring, also it keep the target area away from your opponent and leaves your shoulders and body angles to make a quick retreat to put some space between you and your opponent. On the flip side if your opponent likes to retreat a back turning side kick (dwi dollyo yop chagi) puts you in a better position to continue the attack with a follow up kick.

Some may also say that the Side Kick version is faster - Personally, i find it to be the other way around
The Side Kick way can also make it easier to step down, rather than needing to shuffle slightly

In free fighting, and self defense situations where it is a great idea to punch to the face, the back turning side kick puts you in a position to follow through with a good straight punch to the face!

Determining the time and place for an attack is the key ingredient! Train long, train hard, and train often!

TAE-KWON!

Seems like we were in relative agreement to me

Have you done Pyongwon? Page 497 of the latest Kukkiwon Textbook specifically says to execute a Momdollyo Yopchagi (typed letter for letter) not a Dwi Chagi.

I also disagree that the Turning Side Kick is easier to execute in haste. I think that depends on which you practice more. As we pretty much exclusively do Dwi Chagi, it would be more awkward/slower for us to execute a Momdollyo Yopchagi.

Note: I think Momdollyo Yopchagi is more powerful and if I was doing destruction I'd chose that, but I'd never think of using it in sparring (for the risk of the opponent countering underneath.

Pyongwon? Im only 7th Gup; Why would i be doing Black Belt Pattern 4?

Also, given that i do not practition KKW TKD, i havent read the Kukkiwon Textbook - However, i do plan on buying one at some point, just to read a bit further in to the 'alternate' perspective - Reading books about Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, and more recently, General Choi's Encyclopedia, has benefited my NotBoxing, NotJiuJitsu, and Taekwon-Do; Therefore reading a book on another idealogy of TKD would surely have some perks.

 

[igillman]

Both kicks have their place. If your opponent tends to move forwards and backwards during the fight then a straight back kick is more likely to get them. If they like to bounce from side to side then the turning back kick is likely to get them. Both kicks are very useful ones so I would practice both of them.

 

[thelegendxp]

Yes, both have a place. The turning side usually requires slightly more distance, and is sort of a reach in, attack kick. The back kick is sort of a quicker, often blind kick that is used in slightly shorter distance and is often a retreat kick and than an offensive attack kick. To give examples, Serkan Yilmaz is famous for his offensive turning sides, and WTF Olympic sparring often uses back kicks for counter attacks while fading out.

 

[rlobrecht]

Our school teaches what you're describing as turning side kick, and we call it back kick. Most kids start with the donkey kick, and we have to get them to lift their knees to the side. I find our back kick to be really powerful, and I'm starting to get where I'm pretty accurate with it. The few times I've tried the donkey kick version, I've had a real problem getting reasonable height on the kick.

Rick

 

[Spookey]

The Side Kick variation is easier to execute in haste, and thus, a Jumping Turning Side Kick is perhaps easier to do under pressure than a Jumping Turning Back Kick...

My personal preference didnt agree with the side kick being easier to execute in haste! Other than this I was in agreement! :uhyeah:

Keep on Kickin...

 

[Cyriacus]

My personal preference didnt agree with the side kick being easier to execute in haste! Other than this I was in agreement! :uhyeah:

Keep on Kickin...

Fair enough

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Good Afternoon again,
...For me a Straight Back Kick (Dwi Chagi) is faster and more accurate for quick exchanges in close range as often encountered in sparring, also it keep the target area away from your opponent and leaves your shoulders and body angles to make a quick retreat to put some space between you and your opponent. On the flip side if your opponent likes to retreat a back turning side kick (dwi dollyo yop chagi) puts you in a better position to continue the attack with a follow up kick.

In free fighting, and self defense situations where it is a great idea to punch to the face, the back turning side kick puts you in a position to follow through with a good straight punch to the face!

Determining the time and place for an attack is the key ingredient! Train long, train hard, and train often!

TAE-KWON!

Thanks! Good information.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Do you do both kicks, or do you pick one and make that your "back kick"? By straight back kick, I mean with the kicking foot pointed more downwards, and by turning side kick I mean a "back kick" with a little more rotation and the kicking foot more horizontal. I'm working on my "back kick" and I am wondering whether I should work on both or just pick one.

I treat them as two different kicking techniques. I prefer a back kick for free sparring, because it's quicker, and because I generally use it as a counter kick. For breaking I would be more likely to do a sidekick to get more extension.

As a teacher, I like to have students separate the two kicks in their mind. People tend to make different mistakes for each kick. On back kick, students often do an upward "donkey" kick and don't move in a straight line to the target. On side kick, students often over or under rotate and end up in bad defensive positions in sparring, or miss the boards (hit the holders) in breaking. Many people also take a bad path to the target, where the kicking foot moves across the surface of the target in a round kick motion instead of penetrating the target.