Training With Weapons

[MJS]

Now, in addition to the more common, everyday weapons, such as a stick, blade, handgun, I'm talking more about weapons such as the sai, bo staff, tonfa, sword.

Do you train with any of these? If you talk to some people, they'll say that some of those weapons listed above are 'old' and not something that one would have to worry about facing in todays modern world, and if thats the case, why would someone want to bother training with them?

So...what are your thoughts? Do you feel that its worthwhile to train with someone, even though you may never have to defend yourself with it, outside of the dojo? Do you feel that its good to train with them, even if nothing more than to gain the historical benefits from them?

 

[MJS]

For myself..I primarily train with the weapons that are found in the FMAs...the blade and stick. A blade is something that many people carry today. As for the stick..that can easily be translated to a tire iron.

As for the other weapons...I have done some work with the more traditional weapons. Defensive/offensive moves can be translated to a broom handle.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with spending some time working with these weapons, but I also feel that more time should be devoted to things that you'd be more likely to encounter in real life. So in other words..if you had to split time on weapons work, I'd rather take 30% of my time and spend it on the traditional weapons and 70% on the modern ones. These time frames are just examples. They're not necessarily what I do, or what anyone else should do. Just an example.

 

[Tarot]

Personally, I think it's practical to train learning many weapons, because they all can be translated to something else.

One of my styles is FMA and along with the standard stick and knife we also do Sibat long pole. Like MJS stated, that could be a broom or mop handle. Or a larger piece of wood or possibly a pipe. One of my favorite things to do is to try and see what everyday item could be used for defense and what moves work best with it.

 

[7starmarc]

Do you mean train with weapons, as in weapon defense? or train how to use them in combat? or forms training?

I train in a traditional CMA school, so we incorporate a fair amount of weapons forms in our training (I have learned about 50/50 empty hand/weapons, but that is a higher ratio than most students in the standard curriculum) with a small amount of combat application.

In addition to the novelty/variety factor (training weapons can really spice up a practice session), each weapon holds a different challenge and teaches a slightly different lesson about balance, body control, body movement, awareness, and discipline. Some of these lessons translate to open hand techniques, some might allow me to improvise other weapons better, and some just make me feel like a more complete martial artist, or brings a different challenge/skill that rounds out my abilities overall.

 

[tellner]

I train with blades, sticks, flexible weapons, guns and a couple other things for self defense. I train with archaic weapons for fun. And that's a perfectly good reason to do it.

 

[charyuop]

In Aikido we practice alot with Bokken and Jo (a staff which reaches rughly from floor to your armpit). In our Martial Art the use of those two weapons is, let's say, a "must" since every movement of our techniques is in a very tight relation with the weapons' movements.

 

[Andrew Green]

I've trained with all of those as well as quite a few others in varying degrees, (except handguns) but it never had anything at all to do with practicallity, weapons training is fun

 

[Flying Crane]

Weapons training, when using realistically weighted weapons, can go a long way to build your strength and stamina. In my experience, I'm talking about traditional Chinese weapons such as staff, spear, sword, and broadsword. Stay away from the ultralight modern wushu weapons. Those are more like toys. But if you get sturdy weapons with a little weight behind them, you will find huge benefits from training with them.

 

[Grenadier]

Primarily bo and sai, these days. The kobudo training we do is a separate art from the empty hand training, but there are many instances where gaining experience in one system really helps to develop your technique in the other.

Working with the bo in the Yamanni Ryu training can really help teach someone how to use his body to drive the swings, instead of just the arms, while also showing how to follow up one technique after another, in a smooth, rapid fashion.

Once someone becomes proficient in the bo, then he can apply those same principles (using mostly the body to hit someone, instead of just a hand or arm) to his empty hand, which can result in more power, more speed, yet wasting less energy. While it may take some time before someone can integrate the lessons learned, at least the opportunities are there.

As Tellner stated, it's also a fun way of getting in some good training. It can also inject a bit of life into the regular routines of one's empty hand training.

 

[7starmarc]

Weapons training, when using realistically weighted weapons, can go a long way to build your strength and stamina. In my experience, I'm talking about traditional Chinese weapons such as staff, spear, sword, and broadsword. Stay away from the ultralight modern wushu weapons. Those are more like toys. But if you get sturdy weapons with a little weight behind them, you will find huge benefits from training with them.

I couldn't agree more. Not only do you get a better workout, but some moves, actions make more sense when there is proper weight behind the move. I still train with light weapons when learning a new sequence or when particularly tired, but the majority of the time, I prefer a realistically weighted weapon. The exception is the Tiger Hook Sword, even the lighter version is enough of a hazard to myself (at least at my skill level).

 

[Langenschwert]

Training with weapons is very important to become a complete combatant. In Germany, the longsword was used as the foundation of all combat. Here's a quote from Joachim Meyer from the translation at schielhau.org:

Now, I'm divulging the Art of Fencing with these Knightly and Manly Weapons, which at the current time for us Germans is of greatest necessity, to which my best understanding and abilities are well and truly described for uptaking, and although the lesson given is obvious, that fencing with the sword is not the sole origin and wellspring for all other fencing arts, it is celebrated among other weapons for artfulness and manlyness, and because of it I have what's needed for good understanding from which to make progress, and thus quickly, so onward I see with clarity how with wise handling all this can be applied in other arts and disciplines.

I train with weapons primarily, and what I've noticed is that people with primarily unarmed training have two bad habits that take a long time to break: 1) the tendency to block weapon attacks with arms in sparring, which is of course suicidal with swords, and 2) the mentality that you can "trade" strikes with weapons, which you cannot. You must hit without being hit all the time when it comes to most weapons. You can't take a strike to the leg to hit someone in the head, because then you've got no leg, especially when it comes to longswords. True, they tend to have good body movement, but all the fine body movement in the world won't help you if you're moving your arm into an oncoming blade.

Also, people who don't train with weapons tend to underestimate what weapons can actually do, and what a trained weapon user can do to mess up one's pretty disarms.

So yeah, train with weapons. It's the only way you'll actually be able to deal with them in real life.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Andrew Green]

and what a trained weapon user can do to mess up one's pretty disarms.

Don't need to be skilled, most unskilled people that are intent on using a weapon will mess up the disarms many people practice.

Someone that is skilled with a weapon, is not likely to be disarmed by a unarmed person, no matter how skilled that unarmed person is.

 

[masherdong]

But if you get sturdy weapons with a little weight behind them, you will find huge benefits from training with them.

Tell me about it! My sai are really heavy. Broadsword is also pretty good weight too. I used to do the forms one time and I am pretty winded. Now, when I do my forms, I can at least do them twice before I get winded now.

 

[Sukerkin]

Well given that my arm injuries prevent me from indulging in empty-hand fighting any more, I have no choice but to train with weapons .

Whilst it is true that my mad t1te sword skillz are not particularly likely to have self defence applications anywhere but in my home, the development of zanshin and seme (roughly 'awareness' and 'presence') have their uses in avoiding trouble. Plus, some of the katana techniques translate pretty well to use with a cane or stick.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Practicing with all kinds of weapons is a very smart thing to do!

On the streets anything around you can be use as a weapon. (what you train with will help translate to those things found in the area around you!

Even the late "Bruce Lee" mentions....it would be foolish to NOT use weapons ,(things around that can be use as a weapon(s).) in a street fight.

One will want to always have the advantages. The whole idea about "wars"...is to over power the other side.....by any means....more soldiers,better weapons,more of everything!

One on one? ....not a smart thing to do on the streets....better to use anything to give you an edge....or the other person will use it first!

Weapons training will give you more advantages in how to use those tools found in the streets around you!

short sticks = kali sticks , broom handles = staff fighing, rocks = throwing stars, beer bottles = knife training? , chairs, small tables, rubbish cans, even using cars park as defense barriers...(we use our cars for tranportation only).

Tire irons, screw drivers,hammers,knifes ,flash lights....are all legal to carry in your Vehicles! (canes, unbreakable umbrells,walking sticks)

Aloha,

 

[chinto]

Now, in addition to the more common, everyday weapons, such as a stick, blade, handgun, I'm talking more about weapons such as the sai, bo staff, tonfa, sword.

Do you train with any of these? If you talk to some people, they'll say that some of those weapons listed above are 'old' and not something that one would have to worry about facing in todays modern world, and if thats the case, why would someone want to bother training with them?

So...what are your thoughts? Do you feel that its worthwhile to train with someone, even though you may never have to defend yourself with it, outside of the dojo? Do you feel that its good to train with them, even if nothing more than to gain the historical benefits from them?

yes I train with them, and yes they are of benefit to me and others.
1: they techniques they use are similar and sometimes identical to the ones used empty handed.
2. the weapons also generalize to some very day items that are around you that with little or no modification you can use them as weapons effectivaly.
3. some of the weapons in question are very very hard to outlaw from peoples homes and so are available even in totalitarian controlled country's.
4. they make you aware of the use and danger of simple but quite lethal weapons you are around every day, and some that may be used against you.
so yes for more then historical reasons they are valuable. but history is also valuable.
I know with what I know from the bo I can use a broom or several other long shafted tools or sticks as weapons well, and from the eku a shovel or garden spade becomes a very efficient and effective weapon too. there are a lot of other things that work the same way for other weapons.

 

[Jin Gang]

A practical weapon?

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