Training Partner problems...

[Cryozombie]

I have an issue with my "training partner" in class.

Lemme preface this with, we have a small school, (only about 16 students) and there are onlt 2 students around my level for me to train with. One does not train regularly. So I basically have 1 partner to work out with.

I cannot do my techniques on him. When I am training and trying to learn to do a technique, he becomes very rigid and combative, and I am unable to apply my technique to him. In a real situation this would call for "switching to a new technique" or somthing similar, but when testing, I will not be able to use that as an excuse to not be able to demonstrate the technique I am supposed to be learning.

I pointed out to him he is doing this, and that I cannot execute the techniques on him, and his response was "Well, in a fight this is what it would be like." I even asked one of the Sr. Blackbelts for advice, and he said use a "softening" technique on him when he does this. The problem there, is when I do that, he lets go and pulls away, again preventing me from doing the technique the way I need to practice it for the testing. My instructor said it's just because he is not aware how to be a good uke yet, and he will eventually get it. He suggested that I work out with some of the others, but, that doesnt often work either, becuase then no one works out with HIM, and I always wind up rotating back to him.

I really don't know how better to approach the situation other than telling him AGAIN, "Dood, I am trying to LEARN to apply the technique, so stand there like an idiot for me"

The opposite end of the spectum is for me to plant like a rock myself, and throw full speed punches when he is trying to learn new techniques, and see if he "gets the picture" but that seems rude to me... and could potentialy injure him.

Ideas, or Advice? Im REALLY frustrated and discouraged.

 

[satans.barber]

There's always one isn't there...

We've got one at our school just like this, it's gernally people who think they have something to prove it seems, like they'll seem weak or something if they let you do a technique on them.

It isn't an easy problem unfortunately, the two solutions I've tried are:

a) as them to please relax, you're here to have fun not to fight

b) hit them harder until they get the picture

The former was not so succesful, the latter has worked pretty well.

Sometimes, you just have to go with the mentality, even if it doesn't seem right to you...

Ian.

 

[triwahine]

I agree with Ian. Hit them harder to elicit a response. This should start to get the person to do what they should. I've seen it done and I have done it to others. Give it a try and see what happens. Best of luck.

B

 

[theletch1]

Beyond explaining, yourself, what it means to be a good uke perhaps if one of the Sr. BBs were to talk to him it would help a little. We had one like that (white belt) in my aikido school. After resisting several techniques he was eventually dropped rather hard with a front wrist technique while resisting and couldn't use his wrist for a few moments. He hasn't been back since. Either way the problem was eventually fixed by doing the tech harder than you would otherwise. It's sad that the ego can't be checked at the door (and this sounds like your uke's problem) but it happens way too often. Best of luck.

 

[Touch Of Death]

You are in the wrong school. At your level you need to train against as many types of fighters as possible, not one. I'm sure the system is to your liking, but perhaps you should recruit some people to train with you in your school. I hope you can solve this without leaving, but thats the way it goes sometimes. If you can't wait until the test before you soften him up with obscure moves, and be ready to chase, because he ain't going to like it.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
You are in the wrong school. At your level you need to train against as many types of fighters as possible, not one.

Well, durring Randori (free response) I do work with all 15 or so other students. Its only when working on basic technique that I seem to get "stuck" working with this one partner. I agree with you about working out on different bodies, as does my instuctor. he encourages that... but unfortunately most of my classmnates are whitebelts who cannot take the Ukemi when I do techniques, or Blackbelts who's techniques I am not always able to ukemi for... Its frustrating.

 

[Cthulhu]

Being the spiteful bastich that I am, my opinion is that if he doesn't seem willing to help you learn your techniques, why the hell should you help him learn his by working out with him?

Cthulhu

 

[KenpoTess]

a good ole :btg:

Seriously.. it is difficult to work with a partner that is not willing or even attempts to try to respond to an attack. might as well be using a BOB.. If you can talk to them, perhaps you can (before class or after) go through a session showing them how an opponent responds to the tec. At our school we Have to respond or we get Seig doing the tec on us, not our partner.

Good luck~!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yes, try to talk first, and also to talk with a sr black belt as allthis has already been said.

You also may have to do other techniques, and if you hit him hard and he moves, followup with some other technique. And when he replies, what was that, tell him you were flowing for a real fight, since you will not let me practice the technique the insturctor wants me too. I figured I better get good at what I know in a real situation as you constantly resist so I cannot learn.

I agree though that some resistance is good after all those involved know the technique and are practicing it at a competent level in the one step , or single format. And By resistance I am not talk about I know what you are going to do, and thereby do the exact perfect counter, I will just not give you or help you with the technique, as the other person is beyond that.

And yes, sometimes people get hurt, i.e. bruised or sore. So, depending upon how well you are in wiht your instructor, tell him of your plans so he/she will know that you are not doing the technique is not you screwing off.

Good Luck

 

[Seig]

Several years ago, I had a student.uje that used to do exactly what you were saying. I was a 2nd Black at the time and he was just a dumb purple belt. He decided that since I was a black belt, I should be able to make the technique work with no help from him. He also felt that my shots would have no real effect on him. I tried everything, talking to him, counseling him, extra attention, none of it worked. In the end, I finally had to tell him, either react propelry, or I am going to execute the technique on you. His response, "You're already doing that and it doesn't work." I executed the techniques on him for real. I wound up hurting him, not badly, but enough for him to realize that just because I am going soft with him doesn't mean it isn't real enough. He wound up, after he healed, being an excellent partner and a good martial artist.

 

[Mark L]

"Sensei, these techniques you're teaching me don't work. Every time I try them on d*ckhead here they have little effect, he doesn't react they way you said he would. Can you show me some techniques that do work?"

 

[karatekid1975]

I have a problem with this one kid (well high school kid) that doesn't like to be thrown. Throws are my weak area, so he just makes it worse. He doesn't like to fall I guess. If I try a hip throw on him, for example, he'll stiffen up. Finally I just "chucked" him. I got so frustrated. He doesn't like me doing throws on him anymore. So obviously he still didn't learn his lesson.

 

[dearnis.com]

His response, "You're already doing that and it doesn't work." I executed the techniques on him for real. I wound up hurting him, not badly, but enough for him to realize that just because I am going soft with him doesn't mean it isn't real enough. He wound up, after he healed, being an excellent partner and a good martial artist

Beautiful! Sometimes you get a hard headed person who just does not understand what it takes to be a good training partner and forget that just because you arent injuring them doesn't mean that you can't injure them.

"Sensei, these techniques you're teaching me don't work. Every time I try them on d*ckhead here they have little effect, he doesn't react they way you said he would. Can you show me some techniques that do work?"

Even better.:rofl:

In all seriousness, I have students who are otherwise quite good who exhibit too much of this BS. What it has cost them is the opportunity to train with some of my teachers who would, um, correct the attitude rather more brutally than I typically choose to and no concern for whether or not the student came back. Too much aggravation; much better to limit things to the sudents who grasp the lessons that decorum and attitude do matter.

 

[Mark L]

Originally posted by dearnis.com
[In all seriousness, I have students who are otherwise quite good who exhibit too much of this BS. What it has cost them is the opportunity to train with some of my teachers who would, um, correct the attitude rather more brutally than I typically choose to and no concern for whether or not the student came back. Too much aggravation; much better to limit things to the sudents who grasp the lessons that decorum and attitude do matter. [/B]

I've seen this in two categories of classmates: adults and adolescents (15+), my class offers the opportunity to train with both. Adults are somewhat easier to deal with, continually ratchet up the forcefulness of the technique, either they learn to be a good partner or they absorb a lot of punishment (word does get around ) and eventually quit.

Adolescents are trickier, they're going through a lot, and trying to fit in and gain acceptance in the adult world (class). Forcefulness has its place here as well, but I'm wary of going to hard. One particular classmate of mine was a real pain in the a$$, always making things difficult, especially when learning a technique for the first time. I went hard enough to get his attention and get my training in, but not hard enough to make him stop or hurt him. Ironically, he was a big part of my preparation for brown, I couldn't wait to get away from him into the advanced class. He, and others like him, have since joined that class and have matured into fine classmates.

Having said all that, I often ask my partners to make it difficult. How else will you know what does and doesn't work? However, I only ask this after I've learned the mechanics of the technique.

 

[dearnis.com]

nothing wrong with having a partner give good resistant energy...once you both know the technique. It is important to learn it correctly first; this is where training is about team work.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by dearnis.com
nothing wrong with having a partner give good resistant energy...once you both know the technique. It is important to learn it correctly first; this is where training is about team work.

That is what I was trying to say

 

[tshadowchaser]

Sometime it is not that they resist it is that they completly try to screw up everything being done to rov that they know more and can do things better than anyone else.
Got one of those in my class. No matter what we do he will find a way to make it not happen or whomever he is training with. THen he will loadly tell the world his training partner is doing it incorrectly. This totaly gets me to the point where I want to hurt him badly. I have got to the point of not teaching anything new when he comes to class thinking he will get the idea and leave.
I have tried almost evey approch with him(as an instructor) other then putting him in the hospial, and nothing seems to make him realise that he is an idiot most of the time, in the way he sees other people, and the way he treats his fellow students
Sometime I feel like just kicking him out, but I keep hopeing (unrealisticly it seems) that he will get some smarts and work for the benifit of the class
. Not just to make himslef look good

 

[dearnis.com]

what is aggravating, and what people seem to not get, is that yes, of course if I am showing something demo speed, and if if you already know what I am going to do, you can screw it up, or show the cool counter, or whatever. Which then forces me to do something other than what I want the clas to work on, and things just spiral down hill.
and just to note, this is NOT the same thing as a beginner (the perfect "untrained" fighter) doing something unexpected out of newness.

 

[Cthulhu]

This reminds me of something I read where someone was recounting their difficulties when people asked him to demonstrate something from whatever martial art he studied.

If he did the technique slowly, with control and no power, the technique may not work and the other person may think little of the art. If he did it correctly - basically, for real - the other person would likely get hurt and the martial artist would get accused of bullying or being overly rough.

Ultimately, he decided to decline demonstrating for 'laypeople'.

Cthulhu

 

[Mon Mon]

ever concider kicking him in the nuts as for a softening technique that always works for me lol


:shrug: