Tracy Kenpo Technique -- Bearhug - A

[RavenDarkfellow]

Alright, I already posted a much longer version of this, which ended

up NOT posting, and when I clicked "back" it was gone, so I'm quite livid at the moment. To get to the point, though:

In Tracy Kenpo, there is a technique called Bearhug - A. In this technique, the attack is a bear-hug under the arms (so your arms are free). You grab the attacker by the hair or facial skeletel structure (I prefer the eye-sockets), pull their head back as you left-foot step to 10:30, slam your wrist into their nose in a forward arc, rake their face, half-fist their throat, and then . . . . I have a problem.

You see, "by the book" says you should shuffle forward with your right leg, and raise your left leg to knee them in the back. My primary instructor (4th degree blackbelt) and his brother, my secondary instructor (not sure what rank of black he is), both agree with this method.

A different instructor, however (a greenbelt in TK, and various belts in various other systems both chinese and japanese), says you should forget the shuffle forward, just raise your right knee into their groin (as it's already positioned between their legs, and their groin is exposed), and forget the left knee entirely. This cuts down on wasted motion. Now I ENTIRELY agree with this method, but the book, and my Primary and Secondary sensei both say to use the left knee to the back. I don't understand! Can anyone please explain this for me?

 

[KenpoDave]

You see, "by the book" says you should shuffle forward with your right leg, and raise your left leg to knee them in the back. My primary instructor (4th degree blackbelt) and his brother, my secondary instructor (not sure what rank of black he is), both agree with this method.

I'll need to check my book, because this is wrong. The left foot steps between the opponent's legs at the beginning of the technique, then slams straight up to the groin at the end. You can shuffle if necessary, but it shouldn't be.

Are you using the photo manual or the text QRM?

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

Well, I don't know what the Text QRM is, but I suspect I'm using that because it's sure as HELL not a photomanual! *lol* Do you suspect it was modified?

 

[Sam]

I go to a tracy's in st louis but thats not how I learned bearhug.

strange.

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

There's a Tracy's in St. Louis?! AWESOME! I'm from the St. Louis area, originally, and I may be going back some day. That's awesome to know there's a school there! (I was actually raised in a town called Ironton, about a 2 hour drive SW of St. Louis).

Anyway, how were you taught Bearhug - A?

 

[KenpoDave]

RavenDarkFellow,

I checked all 3 manuals, the text quick reference manual (QRM), the photo manual, and the instructor's manual. The way you described Front Bearhug is not in any of them.

With your left hand, grab opponent by the hair,
Step forward left leg to 12:00, between opponent's legs as you pull his head back.
Right hand strikes down with palm heel on top of the nose and rakes across the face,
Immediately follow with a right half fist to the throat.
Left knee drives straight up into the groin.

:asian:

 

[Sam]

actually, there's 4 in the stl area, maybe more.
the ones for just the st louis area are on this website: www.tracys.com (makes you wonder why the official whole site didnt take that website) as you probably know, you can look at www.tracyskarate.com for a listing of all of the tracy's by state or province.

and... um... hold on I have to get someone to do it to me lol

edit: no I didn't, these were very simple, I'd forgotten. We learned A, B, and C, and none were complicated. A: knee to the groin, half fist to the throat. B: Break both their eardrums (basically trying to clap, ony with their head in the way. Your hands have to be cupped and the pressure will burst them.) C: poke both their eyes out.

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

KenpoDave>> Hmm, thanks. It sounds like the only difference is the initial step-positioning of the left leg. That sounds better, though. I wonder why it's different in mine. . .

Samantha>> Wow, none of that sounds the same as in mine. We also have four versions:

B) 3 side-fists to the medula oblongata while alternating from front to reverse bow and back

C) Eagle's beak into the never between the top of the jaw and bottom of the ear, and twist while pushing into the ground.

D) Step back and turn opponent's face to the side, and ridgehand to the bridge of the nose.

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

I'll need to check my book, because this is wrong. The left foot steps between the opponent's legs at the beginning of the technique, then slams straight up to the groin at the end. You can shuffle if necessary, but it shouldn't be.

Are you using the photo manual or the text QRM?

That's what I do!

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Mr. Ravendarkfellow,

Please shave the back of that animal you have as an avatar, it makes me puke.

Thanks!:wink2:

 

[KenpoDave]

KenpoDave>> Hmm, thanks. It sounds like the only difference is the initial step-positioning of the left leg. That sounds better, though. I wonder why it's different in mine. . .

I can't tell you. However, I was at a seminar when Mr. Tracy was asked why there were 4 variations of Front Bearhug in the manual. His answer was, "Because I didn't have time to right the other 85 down." Translation, once you understand the concept of the technique, which variations you use is not really relevant.

Samantha>> Wow, none of that sounds the same as in mine. We also have four versions:

B) 3 side-fists to the medula oblongata while alternating from front to reverse bow and back

C) Eagle's beak into the never between the top of the jaw and bottom of the ear, and twist while pushing into the ground.

D) Step back and turn opponent's face to the side, and ridgehand to the bridge of the nose.

None of these are in the Tracy manuals either, with the exception of the C listed above, which is actually D.

 

[Sam]

well, I'll accept whatever they teach me as long as it works.

Where can I get my hands on a tracy's manual?

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

*frowns* That's quite upsetting to me, considering I paid $45 for that freakin' manual. Now I'm gonna have to ask for a photomanual . . .

 

[KenpoDave]

well, I'll accept whatever they teach me as long as it works.

Where can I get my hands on a tracy's manual?

Depending on where you are located, I can get you one, or you can contact the Tracy's directly off their website.

Let me know what I can do for you.

 

[KenpoDave]

*frowns* That's quite upsetting to me, considering I paid $45 for that freakin' manual. Now I'm gonna have to ask for a photomanual . . .

RDF, the version you described is not in any of the Tracy manuals that I have seen. I would be interested to know if you are using a Tracy manual, or a manual your instructor has made up.

Feel free to contact me via e-mail if you don't feel comfortable discussing this in open forum... [email protected]

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

I'm using what appears to be a copy of an official manual. It's only in black and white, and it bares the official Tracy symbol on the cover, and it lists out all the techniques in a pretty professional way. . .

It even has the copyright thing at the bottom; (which is ironic, considering it was obviously printed from a person computer).

Also, I read the manual more closely, and it seems to vary slightly from what I mentioned. The changes are only subtle, but they keep the same idea-- also, I was wrong, I did get Bearhug C and D mixed up.

 

[Karazenpo]

Samantha stated: B: Break both their eardrums (basically trying to clap, ony with their head in the way. Your hands have to be cupped and the pressure will burst them.)

Samantha, you're right on the money, use multiply cups to both ears rapid fire, just in case. Once his equilibrium goes, he's finished, with no balance and two popped ear drums, the fight is over. My suggestion is you don't take any chances with anything else initially because if he's strong and probably is since he chose to use a grappling technique then he will compress your rib cage real fast and you won't have long if your initial move fails. You'll also be surprised about the eyes, if he's wired, be it drugs or adrenalin, he'll take some initial abuse and if he can hang in there, he's compressed your rib cage and you're through. Grant, you, if you chose to initially gouge them through (maiming), well, that's your call and if this was a life/death sitaution then you're fine. If not, and believe me, I'm no liberal when it comes to defending yourself, but, you most likely will end up on the wrong side of the legal system. I'm a police officer but excessive force also pertains to civillians and self defense. Go by your instincts, your gut feeling, because I'm also a firm believer in 'rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. The ears should provide an involuntary reaction even if one is wired, note I said 'should', I never commit anything to 100 per cent because nothing is in this life except death and taxes, lol. Best of luck in your training. With respect, Prof. Joe

 

[pete]

...use multiply cups to both ears rapid fire, just in case. Once his equilibrium goes, he's finished, with no balance and two popped ear drums, the fight is over. My suggestion is you don't take any chances with anything else initially because if he's strong and probably is since he chose to use a grappling technique then he will compress your rib cage real fast and you won't have long if your initial move fails. You'll also be surprised about the eyes, if he's wired, be it drugs or adrenalin, he'll take some initial abuse and if he can hang in there...

hey joe! the way i was taught, the cups are used when the arms are totally free... but what if your arms bent at the elbows and pinned to your sides with your hands up around your chest? you can't get the big circles out there to attack the ears, so you shoot your thumbs to his eyes. i forget if that's a, b, or c???

pete

 

[Karazenpo]

hey joe! the way i was taught, the cups are used when the arms are totally free... but what if your arms bent at the elbows and pinned to your sides with your hands up around your chest? you can't get the big circles out there to attack the ears, so you shoot your thumbs to his eyes. i forget if that's a, b, or c???

pete

That's right, pete, the above was for a front bear hug arms completely free. "Joe"

 

[KenpoDave]

I'm using what appears to be a copy of an official manual. It's only in black and white, and it bares the official Tracy symbol on the cover, and it lists out all the techniques in a pretty professional way. . .

It even has the copyright thing at the bottom; (which is ironic, considering it was obviously printed from a person computer).

Also, I read the manual more closely, and it seems to vary slightly from what I mentioned. The changes are only subtle, but they keep the same idea-- also, I was wrong, I did get Bearhug C and D mixed up.

What does it say about the knee strike? Whose copyright is at the bottom? What year? It should be a copyright to Al and Pat Tracy, and 1992 should be the year.