tournament blues

[msmitht]

I just spent all day at a local tourney, my last time at this event. My kids did well. 6 gold and 7 silver for 8 competitors. I was not coaching due to the fact that I was an official.....
The day started ok. 3 refs per ring for 6 rings. Poomsae went well even though most were doing incorrect versions of taegeuks/yondanja/palgwe poomsae. The masters/gms (korean) made sure the refs knew to judge the performance, not the technique. That's right, they had full access to the floor and abused their "right" to be there every chance they had. One even tried to have a ref, his student, change/ignore the score and give the win to the kid who took 3rd. Of course they were only sending groups of 3-4 so all could get a trophy.
The opening ceremony was long and unorganized. The demo was boring and a poor copy of the k-tigers. They made sure to announce and give awards to the masters/gms (korean) who did nothing but show up with students. I was disturbed, just a little, by the fact that this was my second time as referee chairman and I was not announced/given an award. I know that it seems petty but if they are going to give a plaque to the local korean tourism president and the pres/vice pres/chairman/director of the tourney then why not the referee chairman? I would like to think it was an oversight and not racism (whitey here) but last year the korean referee chairman got aletter of commendation from KKW. Was the same last time I was ref chair.
Sparring was a nightmare. 3 bouts in the director changed the rules. No more head shots for all ages color belts. Then they seemed to try and take over the rings. Only 4 of the refs had usat certification. The rest were locas who had a little exp and were easily swayed by a gms/masters suggestions. I was not consulted, just told that the rules were being modified.
There was also no security. The caution tape was ineffective and the announcer stoped trying to clear the walkways. Parents and coaches were cursing at the refs. Since the masters/gms were trying to take charge I asked them toget rid of the more abusive ones. I was told to be silent and stop causing problems. Turns out they were the ones doing most of the yelling at the refs.
I had 5 refs walk out and had to finish the last bouts in 3 rings. The ring master system was screwing up all day.
Did I mention that I had to center this whole time?
At the end I gathered the remaining refs, who were all upset, and we discussed the event. None of them will be attending again. They lost almost all respect for the masters/gms that were there and were disgusted at how they were treated. One was threatened by a gm and one was asked if he wanted to go out to the parking lot by a coach.
I was then told what a great job I did and asked to dinner....I did not go.
Never again will I attend this event, EVER!

 

[msmitht]

Almost forgot something. The master from VICTORY tkd was almost ejected for cursing at 2 refs. I understand his frustration. I hate it when points are not called but to resort to foul, abusive language is childish.

 

[granfire]

gawd, sounds like the weekend from hell.

I am not one to do things for recognition, but when I actually do the work and the others get that pat on the back for looking pretty, that puts a sour taste in my mouth.

Bad behavior should not be tolerated, especially not from those who are supposed to be role models...

 

[msmitht]

BTW, did I mention that the referee's were great
There were mistakes, but most were owned up to and the right competitors won. Disputes were only minor (points/excessive contact/head contact or lack thereof) and were dealt with. I could not effectively manage the refs because I was centering with two newbie's in the corners. There was no one else available.The ringstar system runs on a signal that can be interupted by the signal from a cellphone. Who designed that? What ten year old does not have a cell plone? Put 800 peope in a gym, think there might be signal interference?

 

[granfire]

refs sound human. ^_^

Considering that everybody uses cells, even when they shouldn't, I ma surprised the machine works at all

 

[mango.man]

Wasco?

 

[igillman]

They could have saved a lot of time and effort if they told the competitors to go home and then have an arguing match between the masters/gms. The master or gm that can argue the best takes home the trophy. It would be quicker, less controversial and less prone to error. Then the master/gm can then proudly display the trophy and show the video of the winning argument to their students.

 

[igillman]

I wonder how many of those masters/gms that were arguing and shouting would tolerate that sort of behaviour from their students at their do-jang if they were doing some sparring as part of a regular class?

 

[dowan50]

BTW, did I mention that the referee's were great
There were mistakes, but most were owned up to and the right competitors won. Disputes were only minor (points/excessive contact/head contact or lack thereof) and were dealt with. I could not effectively manage the refs because I was centering with two newbie's in the corners. There was no one else available.The ringstar system runs on a signal that can be interupted by the signal from a cellphone. Who designed that? What ten year old does not have a cell plone? Put 800 peope in a gym, think there might be signal interference?

Are you saying the Ring Star system is being effected by cell phone even with hard wires direct to the computer or were the rings wireless from the corner judges?

Boy you just went through what I have seen develop as a trend from spectators and others. In the future as referee chair I would refuse to center ref and reduce the number of fighting rings to control overall quality, then if the crowd and interference of people with the refs could not be controlled I would shut the whole thing down until every one returned to their seats and announce rules and conduct period.

As for rules changing related to head contact Koreans in general are distrustful of the American public for being liable to sue them for injury so there is allot of concern of insurance coverage for tournaments and anything happening that could effect future tournaments from getting insurance.

In allot of cases Korean masters or GM's will step in when they feel they need to protect the income of future tournaments by giving the public what they want? Wondering why with all the cell phones nobody has posted any video of all the bad behavior and supposed bad judging. A good center ref will see to it good scoring in counted at the table and a win awarded to who deserved it regardless of what goes on with the corner judges if needed. If someone disagrees coach what ever they only have a right to protest based on their qualification to do so and should have to pay to do so and that get reviewed by a panel.

Sad to say I have center reffed when Korean Masters will step in when their kid is fighting and I mean little guys crying getting their butt kicked and its time to stop the fight and their dad is yelling no he needs to fight be a man gees his 6 years old??

 

[msmitht]

Are you saying the Ring Star system is being effected by cell phone even with hard wires direct to the computer or were the rings wireless from the corner judges?

Boy you just went through what I have seen develop as a trend from spectators and others. In the future as referee chair I would refuse to center ref and reduce the number of fighting rings to control overall quality, then if the crowd and interference of people with the refs could not be controlled I would shut the whole thing down until every one returned to their seats and announce rules and conduct period.

As for rules changing related to head contact Koreans in general are distrustful of the American public for being liable to sue them for injury so there is allot of concern of insurance coverage for tournaments and anything happening that could effect future tournaments from getting insurance.

In allot of cases Korean masters or GM's will step in when they feel they need to protect the income of future tournaments by giving the public what they want? Wondering why with all the cell phones nobody has posted any video of all the bad behavior and supposed bad judging. A good center ref will see to it good scoring in counted at the table and a win awarded to who deserved it regardless of what goes on with the corner judges if needed. If someone disagrees coach what ever they only have a right to protest based on their qualification to do so and should have to pay to do so and that get reviewed by a panel.

Sad to say I have center reffed when Korean Masters will step in when their kid is fighting and I mean little guys crying getting their butt kicked and its time to stop the fight and their dad is yelling no he needs to fight be a man gees his 6 years old??

They were wireless controllers. The rule changes came and went depending on who was fighting. The conduct of several masters/gms was innapropriate to say the least. Insurance had nothing to do with it. They wanted their top students to win. Boy were they mad when things did not go their way.

 

[dowan50]

They were wireless controllers. The rule changes came and went depending on who was fighting. The conduct of several masters/gms was innapropriate to say the least. Insurance had nothing to do with it. They wanted their top students to win. Boy were they mad when things did not go their way.

Its that kind of crap behavior that reduces participation at tournament unless the core group of master/GM are really just holding it to benefit their own students and increase bragging rights to increase enrollment and DoJang income. So if they are meeting their financial goals with in their circle it will not likely change. If you are stuck with depending on some of these for your rank advancement you may just have to eat it and not cause waves till the day comes you are high enough rank and have plenty of other things to do.

Hope to hear from you again attending a better tournament some where else.

Last I can understand the motivation to have wireless controllers for judges but I would go back to hard wire only.

 

[d1jinx]

that sounds very typical of a Korean run tournament.

 

[miguksaram]

that sounds very typical of a Korean run tournament.

Sounds typical of a lot of tournaments being ran Korean or not.

MSMITHT - Was this the first time this tournament was ran? Or has it been ran several times before? Sounds like you had a craptacular time.

 

[StudentCarl]

Speaking as a father, athlete, and coach, THANK YOU for refereeing. The self-centered immaturity of the adults is terrible role-modeling. Healthy competition is great for kids, and it can't happen without referees. It's only when GMs, parents and coaches forget that we are all human and think the world will end if something doesn't go their way that the environment goes bad. Then what are the kids learning? Thank you for being a positive teacher in a bad situation--I'm sure others there noticed your role and appreciate your efforts.

Carl

 

[tshadowchaser]

If we could only get the promotor to come on here and defend his rule changes and explain why he let so much interference happen.
Being old I can remember when people where escorted out of tournaments and told not to return if they persisted in interferring.
I also rmember the days when if asked to step outside and discuss something most officails did just that but that was a different time and refs and judges took no **** from anyone.
All in all from what you have said I would say you did well to keep your temper and continue to judge the tournament.

 

[msmitht]

I spoke with the director. He said many masters were seeing too many mistakes by the referee's. Since I was ref chair it was my job to "correct" them but as I was in a ring...
He said one match was too blame. Both kids went down to head shots. Center should have stopped match after first 11 year old was almost ko. Once that happened all the masters feared for their financial lives and, to keep parents happy, said no more head shots.

 

[miguksaram]

I spoke with the director. He said many masters were seeing too many mistakes by the referee's. Since I was ref chair it was my job to "correct" them but as I was in a ring...
He said one match was too blame. Both kids went down to head shots. Center should have stopped match after first 11 year old was almost ko. Once that happened all the masters feared for their financial lives and, to keep parents happy, said no more head shots.

Should have handed them two pillows instead and called it day. Very sad indeed.

 

[puunui]

The ringstar system runs on a signal that can be interupted by the signal from a cellphone. Who designed that? What ten year old does not have a cell plone? Put 800 peope in a gym, think there might be signal interference?

LaJust has the same issue with cell phones. There was a PATU event where LaJust was being used, and points were not going up. They finally figured out that cell phones were disrupting the signal so they made everyone turn off their cell phones. By the way, the Daedo system does not have this problem, because it uses a different type of signal or frequency, one that doesn't require FCC approval.

 

[granfire]

I spoke with the director. He said many masters were seeing too many mistakes by the referee's. Since I was ref chair it was my job to "correct" them but as I was in a ring...
He said one match was too blame. Both kids went down to head shots. Center should have stopped match after first 11 year old was almost ko. Once that happened all the masters feared for their financial lives and, to keep parents happy, said no more head shots.

(how about teaching them to block or evade?)


I guess you know now what you should have done:
Shut one more ring down and just walk around prettifull....