Tkd/tsd???

[Manny]

First of all perdon my english, I hope I can make you undesrtand this post. A friend of mine (TKD 1st dan black belt Ji Do kwan) and co-student of mine had to move to the north of my country and he hasn't had sucess locating a TKD dojang near his home, the only thing available is a Tang Soo Do dojang. he wanted to know how easy will be for him to do the transition from TKD to TSD given both are Korean Martial arts and both emphatize kicking.

If he got inside this TSD Dojang the sambonim told him he will be a white belt and if he shows he's good he can be promoted to the next yellow belt ( in a couple of months) and then the orange and so on.

I think it has not to be so hard to do the transition but I want to see your opininos here.

Manny

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Depends.. . Sometimes arts so similar can be hard to transition. Wraps, preparations, minute details of stances etc.. . can be hard to change after having a reinforced muscle memory pattern for years and years. If the sahbumnim from the TSD school is forgiving of these details, I could see it being quite easy to transition, however if he is a hard@$$ about the details it could prove to be difficult.

We've had students come into our dojang from other TKD schools, Isshinryu, Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, etc.. . We've been forgiving of the details, and most eventually assimilated to our techniques. As long as you can explain why you are changing it beyond "because this is how we do it here.. ." most people are more than willing to try to change their techniques. That said, we often learn from those other students when they can explain why they were taught other ways. In many cases it betters the new student and the school.

Both the Jidokwan and the Moo Duk Kwan have roots in Shotokan, so depending on how traditional each of the dojangs are, they could be extremely similar in techniques. However, if the Jidokwan dojang is following the WTF curriculum and the Tangsoodo dojang is following the SooBahkDo curriculum, then the two curriculums may be quite different.

Hope this helps.. .

 

[Manny]

Depends.. . Sometimes arts so similar can be hard to transition. Wraps, preparations, minute details of stances etc.. . can be hard to change after having a reinforced muscle memory pattern for years and years. If the sahbumnim from the TSD school is forgiving of these details, I could see it being quite easy to transition, however if he is a hard@$$ about the details it could prove to be difficult.

We've had students come into our dojang from other TKD schools, Isshinryu, Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, etc.. . We've been forgiving of the details, and most eventually assimilated to our techniques. As long as you can explain why you are changing it beyond "because this is how we do it here.. ." most people are more than willing to try to change their techniques. That said, we often learn from those other students when they can explain why they were taught other ways. In many cases it betters the new student and the school.

Both the Jidokwan and the Moo Duk Kwan have roots in Shotokan, so depending on how traditional each of the dojangs are, they could be extremely similar in techniques. However, if the Jidokwan dojang is following the WTF curriculum and the Tangsoodo dojang is following the SooBahkDo curriculum, then the two curriculums may be quite different.

Hope this helps.. .

Thank you Benjamin, my budy and I came from Jido Kwan however back in 1987 we chage our palgwes to taeguks and we follow since that day the KUKI/WTF way. Back in the old days we asume not so deep stances but deeper than the ones used today, for example the Ap Kubi Sogi was very wide and so the Chu-Chum sogi (horse stance) now these stances are not too deep or wide.

Manny

 

[Manny]

Just an anology, we knew there are many Ryus in Karate, for example: Shotokan, Goju, Uechi, Wado, etc,etc. all are karate but with their diferences for example, Shotokan with wide stances, Wado someones says is a blen of karate and jujusu, etc,etc. What about a black belt in shotokan if he needs or wants to go Goju or Uechi? I won't be easy for him (given he is a good karateka) adapt to the new ryu and advance there?

Manny

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Just an anology, we knew there are many Ryus in Karate, for example: Shotokan, Goju, Uechi, Wado, etc,etc. all are karate but with their diferences for example, Shotokan with wide stances, Wado someones says is a blen of karate and jujusu, etc,etc. What about a black belt in shotokan if he needs or wants to go Goju or Uechi? I won't be easy for him (given he is a good karateka) adapt to the new ryu and advance there?

Manny

I believe this analogy fits into exactly the circumstance that your friend is in.. .

 

[dancingalone]

Just an anology, we knew there are many Ryus in Karate, for example: Shotokan, Goju, Uechi, Wado, etc,etc. all are karate but with their diferences for example, Shotokan with wide stances, Wado someones says is a blen of karate and jujusu, etc,etc. What about a black belt in shotokan if he needs or wants to go Goju or Uechi? I won't be easy for him (given he is a good karateka) adapt to the new ryu and advance there?

Your friend faces the same issues albeit on a lesser scale in my opinion. It's hard for a Shotokan guy to adapt to Goju or Uechi. (Yes, I know there are some systems that attempt to blend Shotokan and Goju - I'm not generally impressed with the outcome - in most cases, the beginner grade dan belts still look like they favor the Shotokan side.)

I'd imagine your friend going to Tang Soo Do will need to work on lengthening his stances as well as using more traditional chambers on his kicks.

 

[puunui]

I'd imagine your friend going to Tang Soo Do will need to work on lengthening his stances as well as using more traditional chambers on his kicks.

The lengthening of stances is ironic, since Tang Soo Do was originally taught using a narrow shorter stance. I remember I went to visit the Soo Bahk Do headquarters about twenty years ago when it was first built. There was a hard wood floor, and the three or four students there (all dan holders I believe) spent almost the entire time we were there going from ready stance to down block front stance. The stance was narrow, but longer. They really wanted to perfect that basic move, and the mentality was what I remembered from my Shotokan days, grinding out the same movement over and over.

 

[puunui]

First of all perdon my english, I hope I can make you undesrtand this post. A friend of mine (TKD 1st dan black belt Ji Do kwan) and co-student of mine had to move to the north of my country and he hasn't had sucess locating a TKD dojang near his home, the only thing available is a Tang Soo Do dojang. he wanted to know how easy will be for him to do the transition from TKD to TSD given both are Korean Martial arts and both emphatize kicking. If he got inside this TSD Dojang the sambonim told him he will be a white belt and if he shows he's good he can be promoted to the next yellow belt ( in a couple of months) and then the orange and so on. I think it has not to be so hard to do the transition but I want to see your opininos here. Manny

I guess it would depend on your friend's mentality and spot in the journey. If he wanted to learn a new style, then I would say go join the club and don't worry about the white belt thing. If if likes what he is doing now, then joining another club from a different style could cause internal issues. If so, it might be better for your friend to find a training partner and work out on his own. Or start his own club and find training partners that way.

 

[Manny]

I guess it would depend on your friend's mentality and spot in the journey. If he wanted to learn a new style, then I would say go join the club and don't worry about the white belt thing. If if likes what he is doing now, then joining another club from a different style could cause internal issues. If so, it might be better for your friend to find a training partner and work out on his own. Or start his own club and find training partners that way.

Well my friend is movin because of work, so I think he won't have enough time to start looking for a partner, he only want's to keep doing exercise and martial arts, offcourse he can join a fitness center but what he likes (like my self) is martial arts.

I will advise him to go ahead and try TSD he has the experience and I know I will catch all the terminology and the techs easy, he is a good guy.

Manny

 

[Makalakumu]

Even if the art is similar, I think it's a good call to start over at white belt. I trained in Shotokan as a kid and transitioned to Tang Soo Do when I was 20 years old. I knew a lot of the techniques and forms that we were learning, but my teacher had his own unique way of presenting them that I had to pick up. It was a good experience for me.

On a related note, I've been cross training in Danzan Ryu jujutsu since 2002. When I moved from Minnesota to Hawaii, I had earned a brown belt. I started at my new dojo and sensei started me over at white belt. This was the same art, but different schools, and again he had a different way of presenting the material. I've earned my brown belt back and am now on the path to earn my shodan.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I felt like it was a good lesson in how to check my ego.

 

[Manny]

Well... this post makes me thinking again over the subjetc, TSD and TKD both are korean martial arts, both uses kicks mostly, TKD has evolved into full contact sport, TSD remains as it was a MA.

It has not to be so dificult do the transition from one to another if need it or want it.

Now I can say if someone wants an exelent cardiovascular workout and wants to compete TKD is the way to go but if someone wants to do a traditional martial art TSD is the way to go.

Anything you want to coment?

is anybody here who do or did both martial arts?

Manny

 

[puunui]

On a related note, I've been cross training in Danzan Ryu jujutsu since 2002. When I moved from Minnesota to Hawaii, I had earned a brown belt. I started at my new dojo and sensei started me over at white belt. This was the same art, but different schools, and again he had a different way of presenting the material. I've earned my brown belt back and am now on the path to earn my shodan.

Are you with the original group with Sensei McLaughlin or did you go with the break off group?

 

[puunui]

Now I can say if someone wants an exelent cardiovascular workout and wants to compete TKD is the way to go but if someone wants to do a traditional martial art TSD is the way to go. Anything you want to coment?

Taekwondo is more than just an "excellent cardiovascular workout", something for competition only.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Taekwondo is more than just an "excellent cardiovascular workout", something for competition only.

Of course it is but when compared to TSD it is much more sport-friendly and much more cardio-based. Most TKD fighters I know who compete are excellent athletes, not so much so with the sport Karate guys I know. There are certainly more people who train TaeKwonDo as a sport (myself included to an extent) than there are who train Tang Soo Do as a sport. It's not a negative reflection on either art, it's just different. I personally would not want to give up full-contact competition.

 

[Makalakumu]

Are you with the original group with Sensei McLaughlin or did you go with the break off group?

I train with Sensei McLaughlin in DZR.

 

[Manny]

Of course it is but when compared to TSD it is much more sport-friendly and much more cardio-based. Most TKD fighters I know who compete are excellent athletes, not so much so with the sport Karate guys I know. There are certainly more people who train TaeKwonDo as a sport (myself included to an extent) than there are who train Tang Soo Do as a sport. It's not a negative reflection on either art, it's just different. I personally would not want to give up full-contact competition.

You got me, puunui don't.

Right now I can say if there would be a hapkido or tsd dojang near I will try one of them because they are more self defense oriented than TKD these days.

Manny

 

[puunui]

Of course it is but when compared to TSD it is much more sport-friendly and much more cardio-based. Most TKD fighters I know who compete are excellent athletes, not so much so with the sport Karate guys I know. There are certainly more people who train TaeKwonDo as a sport (myself included to an extent) than there are who train Tang Soo Do as a sport. It's not a negative reflection on either art, it's just different. I personally would not want to give up full-contact competition.

Ok, now how about the second part of his statement, "if someone wants to do a traditional martial art TSD is the way to go." Do you think Tang Soo Do is a more "traditional martial art", as opposed to Taekwondo, and if so, what makes Tang Soo Do more traditional?

 

[puunui]

You got me, puunui don't.

I got exactly what you meant.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Ok, now how about the second part of his statement, "if someone wants to do a traditional martial art TSD is the way to go." Do you think Tang Soo Do is a more "traditional martial art", as opposed to Taekwondo, and if so, what makes Tang Soo Do more traditional?

I think there's a lot less tradition observed in TaeKwonDo than there is in Tang Soo Do on average. Not that TKD is any less traditional, but in a lot of dojangs the tradition is not observed. You've seen this yourself, I'm sure: what's the percentage of traditional TaeKwonDo dojangs in total? Maybe 10 percent? Less? TSD does not have a high level competition scene on the same scale, so nobody markets to it.

Of course, TaeKwonDo as we are referring to it has only existed for around 60 years. One could argue that there's comparatively not as much tradition to observe.

 

[puunui]

I think there's a lot less tradition observed in TaeKwonDo than there is in Tang Soo Do on average. Not that TKD is any less traditional, but in a lot of dojangs the tradition is not observed. You've seen this yourself, I'm sure: what's the percentage of traditional TaeKwonDo dojangs in total? Maybe 10 percent? Less?

Depends on what you consider traditional. What do you consider traditional, as opposed to non-traditional? In my opinion, most Taekwondo dojang are still pretty traditional in that the students wear dobok, there is bowing, etc. I would say 99% or more of Taekwondo schools are what I would term traditional. The only non-traditional schools would be ones where no one wears dobok ever, no one bows, there is no belt rank or certification given, and so forth.