TKD kicks vs. traditional kicks

[Rumy73]

Greetings! I am curious how many of you teach both the modern version and traditional form of kicks? I'm guessing some might not even know what I am talking about. However, there is a difference. For example, TKD roundhouse partially turns the hip and is more of a flick from the knee; whereas, a traditional roundhouse fully turns the hip, which pushes out the leg that kicks through the target. The former is quicker and the latter has more power. Each has application, one in tournament sparring and the other in self defense.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Greetings! I am curious how many of you teach both the modern version and traditional form of kicks? I'm guessing some might not even know what I am talking about. However, there is a difference. For example, TKD roundhouse partially turns the hip and is more of a flick from the knee; whereas, a traditional roundhouse fully turns the hip, which pushes out the leg that kicks through the target. The former is quicker and the latter has more power. Each has application, one in tournament sparring and the other in self defense.

It has been awhile (my TKD is pre-Olympic) but it sounds like you are describing 2 different kicks that traditionally one would be called a roundhouse kick and the other traditionally called a crescent kick...

 

[Rumy73]

It has been awhile (my TKD is pre-Olympic) but it sounds like you are describing 2 different kicks that traditionally one would be called a roundhouse kick and the other traditionally called a crescent kick...

Actually, that is not what I am describing. The Olympic TKD roundhouse is a mash up of roundhouse and front kick. The knee goes up but the hip doesn't totally turnover. The power it delivers is much less than a traditional roundhouse. Crescent kick is different.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Greetings! I am curious how many of you teach both the modern version and traditional form of kicks? I'm guessing some might not even know what I am talking about. However, there is a difference. For example, TKD roundhouse partially turns the hip and is more of a flick from the knee; whereas, a traditional roundhouse fully turns the hip, which pushes out the leg that kicks through the target. The former is quicker and the latter has more power. Each has application, one in tournament sparring and the other in self defense.

The difference is that in the self defense version you let your body pass the point of no return, to engage your full body weight into the target. The second way involves counter balancing on the base leg, and involves no body momentum toward the target from that point.
Sean

 

[andyjeffries]

It has been awhile (my TKD is pre-Olympic) but it sounds like you are describing 2 different kicks that traditionally one would be called a roundhouse kick and the other traditionally called a crescent kick...

Personally I would describe the former as "half-turning kick" and the latter as a "full-turning kick". We don't often practice "full-turning kicks" any more, we prefer a front turning kick (comes up with the knee forward like ap-chagi, then turn fully over like a "full-turning kick".

A crescent kick would impact with the inside of the foot; a beet-chagi, dollyo-chagi or ap-dollyo-chagi all impact with the top of the foot (or ball of the foot for destruction).

 

[Touch Of Death]

The difference is that in the self defense version you let your body pass the point of no return, to engage your full body weight into the target. The second way involves counter balancing on the base leg, and involves no body momentum toward the target from that point.
Sean

This also means you are doing different things with the hip.
Sean

 

[Xue Sheng]

Actually, that is not what I am describing. The Olympic TKD roundhouse is a mash up of roundhouse and front kick. The knee goes up but the hip doesn't totally turnover. The power it delivers is much less than a traditional roundhouse. Crescent kick is different.

OK, Now I see it, thanks…like I said, it’s been awhile

Personally I would describe the former as "half-turning kick" and the latter as a "full-turning kick". We don't often practice "full-turning kicks" any more, we prefer a front turning kick (comes up with the knee forward like ap-chagi, then turn fully over like a "full-turning kick".

A crescent kick would impact with the inside of the foot; a beet-chagi, dollyo-chagi or ap-dollyo-chagi all impact with the top of the foot (or ball of the foot for destruction).

Thank you, it has been awhile, and I am old but I do remember where the impact is on a Roundhouse and a cresent kick

I was confused by the original description and way back in the days of the dinosaurs before TKD was an Olympic sport there was only one type of roundhouse so I did not know there was now a different type

The difference is that in the self defense version you let your body pass the point of no return, to engage your full body weight into the target. The second way involves counter balancing on the base leg, and involves no body momentum toward the target from that point.
Sean

Now watch me get in trouble here with just about every TKD person on the board
So…what you are telling me is…. one is real and one is fake

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, Now I see it, thanks…like I said, it’s been awhile



Thank you, it has been awhile, and I am old but I do remember where the impact is on a Roundhouse and a cresent kick

I was confused by the original description and way back in the days of the dinosaurs before TKD was an Olympic sport there was only one type of roundhouse so I did not know there was now a different type



Now watch me get in trouble here with just about every TKD person on the board
So…what you are telling me is…. one is real and one is fake

I was using the original poster's terminology and am saying nothing of the sort.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was using the original poster's terminology and am saying nothing of the sort.

OH SURE!! leave me swinging to take ALL the heat :uhyeah:

 

[ATC]

They are not the same kick. All you did was compare two different kicks. Round house is a round house, anything else is a different kick. There is no shorten the angle and it is the same kick. Each has it application. Two different kicks for two different pourposes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

They are not the same kick. All you did was compare two different kicks. Round house is a round house, anything else is a different kick. There is no shorten the angle and it is the same kick. Each has it application. Two different kicks for two different pourposes.

A stepthrough roundhouse kick has the ball of your hip go under and over as you complete the kick, and a stationary roundhouse involves a different process of hip placement. I think of it as two different ways of doing the same kick.
Sean

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

They are not the same kick. All you did was compare two different kicks. Round house is a round house, anything else is a different kick. There is no shorten the angle and it is the same kick. Each has it application. Two different kicks for two different pourposes.

Actually, the one sounds like the way that I recall a roundhouse kick when I did Shotokan many years ago. The 'taekwondo' version of the kick is faster and not quite as easy to read. I have never found it lacking in power.

Daniel

 

[Earl Weiss]

Teach them both. Sparring kick is for speed and scoring. For max power the traditional one is used and that is the one used for power breaking. The sparring kick is not worth spit for power breaking.

 

[ATC]

A stepthrough roundhouse kick has the ball of your hip go under and over as you complete the kick, and a stationary roundhouse involves a different process of hip placement. I think of it as two different ways of doing the same kick.
Sean

You would not use both in the same way so how can they be the same kick? At least I would not use them the same. Both are turn kicks but different types of turn kicks. Just like a bent leg axe is different than a straight leg axe. Yes both are axe kicks but they are very different kicks even though they hit the same target at the same point and same impact.

Also if you use one vs. the other in the wrong situation then it will not work. One will crack and elbow if used wrong where the other won't. One is use to come under the opening of the elbow and the body and the other is used to go around or wrap and drive in. This is the turn kick I am speaking of.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

You would not use both in the same way so how can they be the same kick? At least I would not use them the same. Both are turn kicks but different types of turn kicks. Just like a bent leg axe is different than a straight leg axe. Yes both are axe kicks but they are very different kicks even though they hit the same target at the same point and same impact.

Also if you use one vs. the other in the wrong situation then it will not work. One will crack and elbow if used wrong where the other won't. One is use to come under the opening of the elbow and the body and the other is used to go around or wrap and drive in. This is the turn kick I am speaking of.

Neither of you is wrong, but you categorize techniques differently. Just different ways of looking at it.

Daniel

 

[puunui]

Greetings! I am curious how many of you teach both the modern version and traditional form of kicks? I'm guessing some might not even know what I am talking about. However, there is a difference. For example, TKD roundhouse partially turns the hip and is more of a flick from the knee; whereas, a traditional roundhouse fully turns the hip, which pushes out the leg that kicks through the target. The former is quicker and the latter has more power. Each has application, one in tournament sparring and the other in self defense.

The first one is not a taekwondo roundhouse, that 45 degree knee flick thing, which is not quicker than a proper roundhouse kick. A lot of people do it that way, but that doesn't mean it is correct. Once you start doing it that way, it is very difficult to break that habit. I would learn to turn your hip over on the roundhouse kick.

 

[Manny]

I teach both, however one is the pit chagui (the comon kick on olimpic sparring) this kicks is aimed to the stomach area and the hips turn a little the suporting foot makes a shallow angle something no more than 90º the dolyo chagui is a roundhouse kick used too in competion or in the steets the foot goes to the head level and the suporting foot turns almost 180º.

With pit chagi you get a fast snap kick, with the dolyo chagui you get more penetration and power.

Talking about side kick (yop chagui) we do it two ways to, the traditional one were one chambers the kick like a front kick and then turns the body to send the kick paralel to the ground and another kind ot yop chagui that we called dwi yop chagui, in this kick we face the oponent very squarely (like in chuchum sogui) and then we cross the rear leg and then lifth the front leg and deliver the kick paralell to the ground.

Manny

 

[puunui]

I teach both, however one is the pit chagui (the comon kick on olimpic sparring) this kicks is aimed to the stomach area and the hips turn a little the suporting foot makes a shallow angle something no more than 90º the dolyo chagui is a roundhouse kick used too in competion or in the steets the foot goes to the head level and the suporting foot turns almost 180º.

A lot of people used do Peet Chagi to the body, but what happens is you don't get a good sound or contact on the hogu, and people bash their insteps on elbows kicking like that. If you turn your hips over properly, then you won't hurt your instep and you will make good contact on the hogu. If I were to throw Peet Chagi, I would do it to the face instead of the body, using footwork and movement to set up your opponent on the inside, off a clinch for example.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The first one is not a taekwondo roundhouse, that 45 degree knee flick thing, which is not quicker than a proper roundhouse kick. A lot of people do it that way, but that doesn't mean it is correct. Once you start doing it that way, it is very difficult to break that habit. I would learn to turn your hip over on the roundhouse kick.

Now that I reread his post in your quote, he was not describing what I had thought he was.

Daniel

 

[Manny]

A lot of people used do Peet Chagi to the body, but what happens is you don't get a good sound or contact on the hogu, and people bash their insteps on elbows kicking like that. If you turn your hips over properly, then you won't hurt your instep and you will make good contact on the hogu. If I were to throw Peet Chagi, I would do it to the face instead of the body, using footwork and movement to set up your opponent on the inside, off a clinch for example.

Interesting so I want to know more. There is a chance as you mentioned that when performing a round kick like peet chagui you can meet an elbow and this is very painful, bit this can occur with a peet chagui or dolyo chagui both of them aimed to the stomach/torso area. Why you wrote that only with peet chagui and not dolyo, can you be more specific? in both cases peet/dolyo chagui the instep is the part of the foot used to make contact no matter ribs for example or elbow.

I know sh.... can hapens and someone can hurt instep very badly but this can be done with either kicks or Am I missing something?

Manny