Three Sectional Staff --:--:--

[Allen a.k.a. Destroyer]

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.......

Ok, WHOA! Hold on... Stop right there.

I am not one of those guys looking to start the three sectional staff, so stop with the negative headshaking and the downcast look.
:boing2:
Let me reiterate: I am NOT trying to START training with this fine and challenging weapon.

I have been working with 3 sections for about 2 years now. I am looking for a lightweight one to work with in competitions. I have some of the ones commonly available: a foam one (heaven forbid anyone starts learning without one), a white wax one (heavy, slow, but good and durable), and another hardwood one (probably oak, painted black with red rings around the ends... but after getting my hands on it, I can tell it's garbage (online order) ...it is held together with ROLL PINS... who does that!? :disgust: Rivet everytime! I only got it for the chains anyway).

I saw a video of a shaolin monk working a bamboo one and was blown away by his speed. Everywhere I look to order, however, I can never find a plain, old-fashioned bamboo three section staff. The search engines only pull up bamboo knick-knacks, bamboo suppliers, or the other three sections I've already seen. Does anyone know of a website the search engines just can't find? Do I have to hire a translator and order from China? :asian: Or is this something I just have to make myself..?
:hammer:
...I'll do it! (as soon as I can find some blasted one inch rivets, lol)

I've also seen the rattan ones available... but my favorite bo is rattan and I think a bamboo one would be more of what I'm looking for.

Please... any three section practitioners in here?

(Also, if you're one of those people looking to START training with a three section... Eric Lee probably has one of the best instructional videos out there... but I would STILL highly reccomend you find a nearby kungfu style instructor that has experience with three sections (preferably a positive experience and not that one time he knocked himself out with one!)) :roflmao:

 

[CMS]

Try searching for "Rattan three section staff." I got several hits with this search on Google. Rattan looks like bamboo to the casual observer, but is a much better material for practice weapons. I don't think anyone uses bamboo.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Some of the weapons you see in China you can't get here. The 9 section whip my first Sifu worked with he got in China and I have never seen it’s like here.

Also watch just about any video from Shaolin and compare it to the speed and accuracy you see elsewhere. Could be rattan and he is just really fast after years of training.

As for the 3 section staff all I have now is the safety version and it is collection dust in a closet and I have no idea where you would find bamboo

 

[Flying Crane]

Do you have a good teacher teaching you the 3-section staff now? Could he help you track down the right thing for you?

What kind of competitions are you doing? personally, I find it more impressive when someone works with realistic and properly weighted weapons, even if it means they are slower. This is especially true at a tournament, because everyone thinks they need to be fast as lightning at the tournament, and that usually means their technique suffers. I've found that the judges respect a real weapon over a lightweight wushu toy. Are you doing Modern Wushu tournaments, or traditional tournaments?

 

[Allen a.k.a. Destroyer]

While I haven't gotten a rattan one yet... I am reconsidering it now. After re-examining the video... it may well be a thin rattan one. The quality (trouble with all online videos) makes it hard to tell. Here is a link to the video I was talking about:

(sure he doesn't stick his landing at the end, and there are a couple other tiny things that might be slipups... but the part at about 15-18 seconds blew me away)

Even if just to practice with and try new combinations, I think a bamboo one would be great to have. If I screw up, the resulting injuries would be much less than that from a heavier one (like white wax). :uhyeah:

I've recently become a little leery of my white wax one... Let me explain:
2 summers ago I hit 1st degree in my taekwondo school and was asked to teach a nunchaku class in an area martial arts summer camp. I've been working weapons since before I got on a rank system. I would always go outside and mess around with a stick, homemade nunchucks, you name it. After beginning formal instruction, I've found a calling within my calling: weapons. While my style is mostly Korean, I want to pick up (and not just be a jack of all trades,) and actually become skilled with any weapon I can get my hands on. Anyway... I was teaching the class, and encouraging them to reach out with the strikes we were going through (most of these kids had never touched nunchucks so some were a bit afraid of them). And as I demonstrated a proper strike... my favorite white wax octagon cut nunchaku suddenly lost a considerable amount of weight... XD the swinging chuck flew off up at an angle hitting the wall, while the bearings from the swivel just EXPLODED all over. One of the bearings hit a kid right in the forehead lol. No one was hurt thankfully, and my following classes went well with no incident... but you should've seen the look on this one kid's face. His jaw was dropped and his eyes got so wide... :jaw-dropping: "Oh my God! This guy is gonna kill us!" Now, I have had that pair for YEARS... I even had to apply oil to the bearings before to keep them smooth. Maybe I should've used grease? lol But, seriously...

After that I began doubting the safety of the swivels. I went so far as to make a pair of steel cable nunchucks... With a properly fitted clamp, those aren't going anywhere as long as I hold on to them: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=116945807&albumID=1772388&imageID=35089982
(note: that's a prototype stage, I have since carved just enough out to fit the clamp flush with the chuck and taped it down. They're a solid weapon. Not so good for competition, however, as the cable is a tiny bit springy... flashy moves like rolling them over the hand are more difficult with the bounceback.)

I suppose I will order a good looking rattan one in the near future. Maybe one of those nasty looking chained ones that doesn't have the swivels on it... like this: http://www.wle.com/media/W351.jpg

Flying Crane, the competitions I'm doing are more along the lines of your usual taekwondo and karate tournaments. We sometimes see kung fu practitioners, but I dont' think any of them are real Wushu. We get some "xma" guys around here too. I'm basically on my own with this weapon. There is one local kung fu style instructor (I think he is my jhong law horn) with some experience with it. He commented on my form when I took this to tournament. He advised against one of my strikes (holding the weapon together and striking like a baseball bat, lol) but offered me a couple pointers and said that otherwise it was pretty good for a guy taking a Chinese weapon and using it in a Korean style form. (I did take 1st after all.) I bought a few videos on the weapon, and have got to say again: Eric Lee's is probably the best out there. The "king of kata" doesn't dissappoint. I would love to go to one of his seminars. At some point, I intend to work out an arrangement with the local instructor that helped me out to learn a few things and get some critique. I'm sure there are a few basics I may be missing, as I've basically learned from videos thus far. (Hey don't give me those looks. I haven't hit my head with it hard, nor am I going to. There is a degree of control with chained-stick weapons. Slowing it down just before you take a hit makes all the difference in the world, lol.)

Xue Sheng, actually... you might be interested to know...
http://www.wushukicks.com/wushu-shop/wushu-weapons/9-section-whip-chain-2.html
... I've actually gotten my hands on a lightweight 9 link trainer chainwhip without leaving the country. (It looks like a toilet chain, lol... but once it gets going, it's not to be underestimated.) Pad the dart and swing away! I haven't practiced it much yet (again, all I have are videos), but I've learned a few simple figure 8 type moves and transitions. Granted, it is a really rare weapon. I know of only two shaolin schools that teach it in my region (San Antonio,TX and New Orleans), but the nearest one to me is 3 hours away. You're probably right about the training difference with real Shaolin guys. I'm sure I haven't put near as many hours into the weapon... but, it's just a matter of time and practice.

Thank you for your input sirs. :asian:

 

[Flying Crane]

I would suggest you really get some proper instruction. You are coming from a Korean style background and trying to adopt a Chinese weapon. Things are different. The three-section staff is not just a nunchaku with an extra section. It's a whole different weapon and it's used differently.

It's an odd enough weapon that not a whole lot of it's methods are intuitive. Whatever you've managed to figure out on your own, I suspect you've barely broken thru the surface of what the weapon can do. You need someone to train you before you will even realize what is possible and proper with the weapon.

Just because you won with it in a tournament, doesn't mean anything. It probably means the judges don't know anything about the weapon and they are easily impressed with flash. Compared to the other competitors who showed up that day, they just liked yours better. Sorry to be the rain-bringer, but I believe this is true if you've been just figuring this out on your own with a video.

weapons are a cool thing, and I encourage their study. But I encourage it under the guidance of an instructor who knows what he is doing. People seem to want to pick up a weapon and start playing with it. Then, when they've developed a modest amount of dexterity flipping it around or something, they think they understand the weapon. They don't. They've just figured out how to do a couple of flashy but hollow things with it. That does not provide for a genuine understanding nor skill with the weapon.

 

[Carol]

Rattan is a valuable training tool because of its safety. Unlike wood, or bamboo, rattan does not splinter upon impact, it frays.

Keep in mind that when a weapon impacts another hard object, it may not be intentional (ie: "Oops, I didn't mean to do that") and the recipient of the splinters may not be the practitioner. It may be a passerby, a training partner, or the family pet.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng, actually... you might be interested to know...
http://www.wushukicks.com/wushu-shop/wushu-weapons/9-section-whip-chain-2.html
... I've actually gotten my hands on a lightweight 9 link trainer chainwhip without leaving the country. (It looks like a toilet chain, lol... but once it gets going, it's not to be underestimated.) Pad the dart and swing away! I haven't practiced it much yet (again, all I have are videos), but I've learned a few simple figure 8 type moves and transitions. Granted, it is a really rare weapon. I know of only two shaolin schools that teach it in my region (San Antonio,TX and New Orleans), but the nearest one to me is 3 hours away. You're probably right about the training difference with real Shaolin guys. I'm sure I haven't put near as many hours into the weapon... but, it's just a matter of time and practice.

Thank you for your input sirs. :asian:

I know you can get light weight, his was not light weight it was actually rather heavy and I have not seen anything like it in this country. Actually he thought the ones he could get here were to light and made it difficult for him to use them properly at first.

Frankly the stuff he was doing wrapping around his neck with the heavy 9 section scared the hell out of me but he felt the light weight was much more dangerous.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would suggest you really get some proper instruction. You are coming from a Korean style background and trying to adopt a Chinese weapon. Things are different. The three-section staff is not just a nunchaku with an extra section. It's a whole different weapon and it's used differently.

It's an odd enough weapon that not a whole lot of it's methods are intuitive. Whatever you've managed to figure out on your own, I suspect you've barely broken thru the surface of what the weapon can do. You need someone to train you before you will even realize what is possible and proper with the weapon.

Just because you won with it in a tournament, doesn't mean anything. It probably means the judges don't know anything about the weapon and they are easily impressed with flash. Compared to the other competitors who showed up that day, they just liked yours better. Sorry to be the rain-bringer, but I believe this is true if you've been just figuring this out on your own with a video.

weapons are a cool thing, and I encourage their study. But I encourage it under the guidance of an instructor who knows what he is doing. People seem to want to pick up a weapon and start playing with it. Then, when they've developed a modest amount of dexterity flipping it around or something, they think they understand the weapon. They don't. They've just figured out how to do a couple of flashy but hollow things with it. That does not provide for a genuine understanding nor skill with the weapon.

Agreed

I use to train with a man who had trained the 3 section with a couple of different sifus and he was rather good at using them. But even after years of proper training he was doing a demo with a real set one day and as he put it, "one second I was doing the demo and the next thing I know I was face down in the grass" He made one minor error in the form and took one of the sections in the back of the head. A trip to the ER a few stitches and a concussion later he was fine.

I have been wacked in the back of the head, had the glasses taken off my face and once had an idiot get a hole of my triple section (safety type) and he broke a metal whilst making Bruce Lee movie noises. Luckily for me I used the safety (soft) type or it all would have been much worse

 

[Allen a.k.a. Destroyer]

It's an odd enough weapon that not a whole lot of it's methods are intuitive. Whatever you've managed to figure out on your own, I suspect you've barely broken thru the surface of what the weapon can do. You need someone to train you before you will even realize what is possible and proper with the weapon.

Exactly. I plan on hitting up some local Chinese style instructors in an effort to learn more. I'll go in very humbly (I probably won't even bring in my belt, different style and all) and start learning again from the basics. It's very important to me that I keep the beginner's mind set. Always be willing to learn from anyone.

The problem is time... I train five nights a week in two different styles and work nearly all weekends. I've gotta skip some classes to learn more of the weapon... and I hate that. Oh well, sacrifices must be made...

Just because you won with it in a tournament, doesn't mean anything. It probably means the judges don't know anything about the weapon and they are easily impressed with flash. Compared to the other competitors who showed up that day, they just liked yours better. Sorry to be the rain-bringer, but I believe this is true if you've been just figuring this out on your own with a video.

Yes sir, I know. But I did have some serious competition the first time. There was one man with a real strong bo form. I was impressed. The points were close. If I had a video of my form online, I would message it to you for critique, if you didn't mind..?

weapons are a cool thing, and I encourage their study. But I encourage it under the guidance of an instructor who knows what he is doing. People seem to want to pick up a weapon and start playing with it. Then, when they've developed a modest amount of dexterity flipping it around or something, they think they understand the weapon. They don't. They've just figured out how to do a couple of flashy but hollow things with it. That does not provide for a genuine understanding nor skill with the weapon.

Well sir, I'm not "people". I treat it with a great deal of respect and I'm still seeking knowledge of it. The problem I think, lies with the uniqueness of the weapon and the very few instructors that teach it. Fortunately, there is at least one area instructor I can see.

 

[Allen a.k.a. Destroyer]

I know you can get light weight, his was not light weight it was actually rather heavy and I have not seen anything like it in this country. Actually he thought the ones he could get here were to light and made it difficult for him to use them properly at first.

Frankly the stuff he was doing wrapping around his neck with the heavy 9 section scared the hell out of me but he felt the light weight was much more dangerous.

This site has a heavy 9 link available.
http://www.wle.com//products/w055sl.html
The price seems fairly reasonable compared to some others I have seen around. I'm not about to spend $100 on a chain when I can find the exact same one 40% cheaper. Those of us that don't own schools have got to be frugal. XD
http://www.wle.com//products/w055sl.html
Thank you for the 9 section tip... when I get around to training with it again, I may train with a medium or heavy one. I would love to just jump into a Shaolin school and learn all the weapons, but my primary instructor might get offended, lol. Hey, has anyone started a 9 section chainwhip thread yet? Just kidding.

 

[Flying Crane]

Exactly. I plan on hitting up some local Chinese style instructors in an effort to learn more. I'll go in very humbly (I probably won't even bring in my belt, different style and all) and start learning again from the basics. It's very important to me that I keep the beginner's mind set. Always be willing to learn from anyone.

The problem is time... I train five nights a week in two different styles and work nearly all weekends. I've gotta skip some classes to learn more of the weapon... and I hate that. Oh well, sacrifices must be made...

If you train with a sifu, I would not be surprised if he requires that you become a student of his to learn his system, and weapons my come gradually. The common wisdom is that you need to build a proper base first, before you begin working with weapons. He may feel that your TKD background is different enough that it's not appropriate for the Chinese weapons. I hope that's OK with you, and you should see it as an opportunity to learn something new. A lot of great stuff in the Chinese arts.

And yes, secrifices must be made.

Good luck