The Weapons that Made Britain.

[arnisador]

I watched the first of 5 hour-long episodes of this series on the Military History Channel last night. It focused on the sword as used in the War of the Roses (15th century England). Future episodes will cover other weapons, including the spear and longbow.

An expert in historical swordsmanship, whose name I did not catch, hosts the show in a way that is reminiscent of the History Channel's Conquest but with much more of a documentary flavor and less of a reality-show flavor. In this episode he discussed the types of swords, the need for strength and flexibility in a sword, sword-making, tactics, and so on, with an emphasis on tactics, and also described a particular battle in great detail (the 1471 Battle of Barnet).

A group of his students were trained in the use of the sword. It was interesting to see the techniques. One thing that was very noticeable is that they assume the use of a gauntlet, for they grabbed their own blade constantly for pommel-strikes and the like. Also, they were taught stances, then basic strikes, then they drilled in a standardized pattern that, in my opinion, could only be termed a kata. The instructor felt the pattern was important for ingraining the techniques and the transitions between positions/stances/guards. It could have been a Japanese martial art, based on the training methods!

Of course they practiced techniques in pairs as well. There was a segment on swordfighting from horseback and they drew extensively from certain old swordfighting manuals (though no English swordsmanship manuals from that period survive, they said).

They showed some historic swords, and tested swords against one another in cutting and thrusting practice (on a block of clay), and against a helmet. Since armor was worn, the sword was effectively a bludgeon rather than a cutting weapon. There was also a segment showing in some detail the forging of a layered sword. Seeing the twisted form that would be heated again, and seeing how it lead to the pattern on the sword after etching, was fascinating.

The battle itself--and why it lead to such a preponderance of swordfighting rather than artillery/archery carrying the day--was covered in detail, including the motivations of the opposing armies.

I really enjoyed this show, and am looking forward to further episodes.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sounds like an interesting program. Sometimes I wish I had cable...

 

[brokenbonz]

I've seen few episodes, one on the crossbow, the english long-bow and once there was one about armour. Pretty cool program, I like that short british dude who hosts it, I believe his name is Mike Loades. From what I understand medieval martial arts are creating a big buzz in europe, France, the UK, Italy and Spain are being flooded with books,dvds, and tv shows about such disciplines. I remember when I was growing up there nobody was even talking about medieval combat execpt form maybe once in a while you could of attended some kind of battle re-enactment (hope I spelled it right).
Now they have actually schools and all, and not just about historical fencing styles but about all sorts of medieval martial arts I didn't know existed (hell in places like Rome they even have schools about "pugilatis caestis" and "gladiatura" schools inspired by the old days of the Roman Empire).

All good stuff, let's hope someone comes out with a program about north american martial arts taken here by the early settlers, or american afro-diasporic martial arts and stuff like that.

 

[arnisador]

Ah, yes--Mike Loades is the person who hosted it. He also briefly interviews swordsmakers, other sword experts, and museum curators.

It sounds like it may have been a longer-running series, but I understood that only 5 episodes were to be broadcast as part of this run.

Hmmm, a web search turns up a good thread on this series on a bizarre racist site ("Stormfront Town Hall & Radio - with David Duke 9am EST"). There's a great close-up of a pattern-welded blade there, in between ethnic insults...wow, what a bunch of nutjobs.

Anyway, I digress...he also did show some empty-hand defenses, some of which seemed to assume that you still had at least the gauntlets and possibly armor on but had been disarmed.

Here's a link to a story about the series. Here's a link with a video featuring Mr. Loades, The text refers to the (two-person?) pattern drills:

Loades' sequence is intended to be a choreography/stage combat exercise, which is essentially how we presented it. When we use it as a parade (kata) we change the spirit of it a bit. The fundamental difference between a parade and choreography is one of intent. Choreography strives to create an effective illusion of danger and dramatic tension, while maintaining in fact maximum conditions of safety. With a parade, the objective is to execute the correct form, in safety.

One practical effect is that all blows in choreography are either out of distance or misdirected by a fairly wide margin; blows in a parade are either in distance or potentially in distance, and on-target but pulled or misdirected by a narrow margin. In the sequence most attacks are done in distance but we do a few stage combat 'cheats' - on the belly cuts the blade is pulled back as a safety measure.

 

[arnisador]

I posted here about the second episode (on the longbow) that I watched last night.

Another post in that thread suggests that the swords discussed above may have been sharp only for a short distance near the tip, so that one could grip the shaft of the blade safely (a "half-swording grip").

 

[Flying Crane]

Another post in that thread suggests that the swords discussed above may have been sharp only for a short distance near the tip, so that one could grip the shaft of the blade safely (a "half-swording grip").

This is true traditionally of Chinese straight swords as well. They were apparently very sharp at the tip and for the first six to ten inches, then it became less sharp for about the next third of the length, with the last third of the blade near the hilt dull and thicker, perhaps even unedged, mostly used for parrying without having to worry about damaging the edge. It sort of becomes a flexible and very sharp dagger on the end of a long handle.

I appreciate these posts. I have an interest in the weaponry both of Asian fighting systems, but also European medieval weaponry. Maybe I can find these on DVD someday.

 

[arnisador]

I posted here about the spear (and lance and pike) episode. I would've liked to have seen a comparison to the Chinese or Japanese spear! But, this series is about English weapons usage.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I taped this when it aired last summer. Excellent series, IMO. I've played with a few of the things he demonstrated, wish there was someone local who did the European arts.

 

[arnisador]

There's an SCA group, isn't there? Didn't Tim Hartman play with them for a while to learn some fencing?

I am enjoying the series. It also drew in my wife and my son, so it isn't just for martial arts enthusiasts. He weaves in the history too.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm inclined for something more 'authentic' without the "role playing", no offense to any SCA folks reading.

 

[Shane Smith]

Those shows leave a bit to be desired in many respects, but still, overall they are a decent effort in my opinion. Anyone wanting to learn historically-accurate European Swordsmanship, check us out at www.thearma.org

 

[Shane Smith]

I taped this when it aired last summer. Excellent series, IMO. I've played with a few of the things he demonstrated, wish there was someone local who did the European arts.

ARMA NYC
Louis Leibowits
[email protected]

ARMA Staten Island, NY
Roger Soucy
[email protected]


ARMA Northern New Jersey
Gary Gryzbek
[email protected]​

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Cool. Thanks Shane. That's closer than I thought, unfortunately still a bit of a haul. Will check em out though.

 

[DuneViking]

I'm inclined for something more 'authentic' without the "role playing", no offense to any SCA folks reading.

No offense taken. Actually, SCA is supposed to be more historical, not role play, but seems to be inundated by newbies playing fantasy and not doing research. Check individuals in your local SCA, some may be very learned. There are smiths here, for example, who have made gorgeous layerd tools-hammers, knives etc, not just etched. Also, there are folks learned in the eras combat. I see many in the fencing sport that are really outstanding. The "heavy weapons" folks, or "stick jocks" are less historical due to necessecity for safety and their desire to "play" their "sport". Bottom line is to look and listen and decide on the individuals for yourself, they can be a great resource.

 

[samurai69]

http://www.maisters.demon.co.uk/

 

[RoninPimp]

This is a great show. Way better than the "Conquest" series.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

definitely a good series. Wish they'd release it on DVD.

 

[petesommer]

I'm glad there's so much interesting discussion around the series. I was the Director/Producer who made the Shield Program. I thought you might like to know about a link to Mike Loades - the presenter's website. In case you haven't come across it, there's also a mini website about the series on the Channel Four website.

Do let me know if you have any questions.

Best wishes,

Peter Sommer

 

[arnisador]

Thanks! I'll echo this info. to this thread at FMATalk.com too.

Knowing about the testudo was helpful when I watched The 300 as the Spartans used a similar formation in it. Was the series considered a success by the producers? Can we hope for more like it?

 

[SageGhost83]

I would absolutely love for there to be more series like these. Martial Arts as a whole is such a large feild that spans many different time periods, countries, and cultures. It is very refreshing to study an art or method that is not from the far east (god knows, we have almost overstudied those :lol. I would love to learn a western martial art, myself. Then I can have an eastern and a western martial art in my repetoire.