The two hand "X" block against a kick?

[still learning]

Hello, The "X" block, double hand block to the kicks and above our heads...that you see in lot of "kata's? and some training...

If someone was to kick real hard and we try to block the kick with two hands techniques .....will our wrist or arms hurt and will we be able to Block hits to our open "head"?..after blocking the kicks?

We have this in our Pinion 5 Kempo kata where we turn into low squating position to block a kick with two hands, than raise those arms to block a high chop?

Two hand block's? ...is this a good techniques to use on the streets?

Aloha, ( yes I am not a fan of Kata....just that it is require in our system to learn and teach them to our students)

PS: Is this a wise move?

 

[jks9199]

Or is it a wise interpretation of that move or set of movements?

Maybe that's where the problem lies?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hello, The "X" block, double hand block to the kicks and above our heads...that you see in lot of "kata's? and some training...

If someone was to kick real hard and we try to block the kick with two hands techniques .....will our wrist or arms hurt and will we be able to Block hits to our open "head"?..after blocking the kicks?

We have this in our Pinion 5 Kempo kata where we turn into low squating position to block a kick with two hands, than raise those arms to block a high chop?

Two hand block's? ...is this a good techniques to use on the streets?

Aloha, ( yes I am not a fan of Kata....just that it is require in our system to learn and teach them to our students)

PS: Is this a wise move?

The more points of contact you have the better. Remember, its better not to be there, but as a last resort two hands are going to cover more area, and aid in lessoning the possible injury you would sustain using only one hand.
Sean

 

[RED]

IMO
The "X" blocks to me are something that leads to another technique. I believe the forms / patterns are there to develope muscle memory, among other things, to help you react instinctively. Let's face it you won't drop into a straddle stance to punch someone on the street. The formal "X" block develops mucsle memory to permit you to block and counter with ...say a one leg take down. I beleive that if you where to block a turning/ round house kick with a one arm forearm block you are risking a broken bone but the idea is to develop muscles that will have the "twitch" reaction that is instinctive to self preservation. Usually ones insticnt is to put you hands up to protect yourself when you are attacted, The "X" block is something that can be used to trap a kick or punch. The formallities in the forms are there to develop your reaction and counters in a street scenerio. I don't mean to start a debate on forms but IMO the forms are not choriographed fights, but simply a way of practicing basic actions and reactions to develop the mucsles and mind.

 

[tellner]

A very wise and frighteningly experienced Marine/highly decorated cop/martial artist said "Every time someone has both hands on you you've got a free shot." If you put both hands in line with one of his weapons at the same time your entire high line or entire low line is open.

The classic X-block against the knife is criminally bad. Anyone who teaches it should be prosecuted. We know exactly what will happen and how long it will take for the defender to get stabbed multiple times, probably with both hands cut to shreds for good measure. They still teach it. I don't care how many black belts they have or what they could wallpaper with their rank certificates.

 

[Danny T]

Is the X block movement actually a two armed "block" or is it simply a reference that could be either arm? How about a timing difference where the left arm slows the attack and the right parrys outward or vise versa? Maybe the left parrys first then the right follows up and continues the parry. Look deeply and with an open mind these examples should give insight into much more within the X block movement.

Danny T

 

[tellner]

I'm well aware of the "double tap" and split timing uses of the motion. But almost nobody teaches them. Go to nine out of ten schools that have the movement in their forms, and you'll see a simultaneous thrusting of the arms into position as a block usually followed by relinquishing control long enough to strike or readjust for a lock. That's why I was careful about my choice of words.

 

[still learning]

Hello, If we use this "X" block with two hands? .....mostly done in a lower position.....we will have time to defend against upper strikes?

Possible to grab the leg for defense?

Just wondering? ...will we be able to take the FULL POWER of the KICK?

To me is seens like a dangerous block....because of the power of the kick and you are keeping your head an open tarket..can we recover quickly enough to still defend or counter?

Would this technique fall in the area of learn about it? ....then put in back of other "questionable" techniques?

Aloha

 

[charyuop]

The reasoning in my opinion has a big problem as a basic. "If I block a low kick with cross hands will I be able to block....".
If you get both hands busy on the same target, then use your body. Using the X block doesn't mean stay there and wait for the next strike to arrive. You can turn the leg using the block thus turning the opponent's body, or your can move to the opponent's side, or else you can step back drawing his leg with you...
Setting your mind in a way that say "Yay I blocked it, I survived, I won!" leaves open to certain defeat. Train your mind in a way that says "one gone, let's go with the second one immediately". Try to use a block as a way to gain advantage and use that advantage, if you wait too long the advantage is gone forever.


Just my 2 cents...

 

[MJS]

Great thread! Yes, the majority of the time, when this block is taught, we see it done just as its been described by the OP...someone dropping their weight into the downward X to block the kick. For myself, if I'm going to block a kick, its going to be a deflection with my arm, while I move offline.

I was at a Dillman seminar a few years ago and this block came up. I can't recall the exact use that he gave, but I think it may have been some sort of application off of a grab. You're using the other arm to hit points, so it forms the X look. Again, don't hold me to that, as I cant recall exactly.

As for using this against a knife or club...I think that Danny brought up a great point. We do this type of movement for some of the knife and club defenses in Arnis, however, as he said, its not a simultaneous movement. In other words...for a striaght knife thrust, one method would be to initially deflect with the right, as we move offline, then the left comes over, forming that X and then we move into a lock. To think that against an over head stab or straight thrust, that you're going to just do that X block with much success, you're going to be in for a rude surprise.

Like many things in the arts, looks can be deceiving. Certain moves may not be what they initially appear to be.

Mike

 

[Laurentkd]

Hello, If we use this "X" block with two hands? .....mostly done in a lower position.....we will have time to defend against upper strikes?

Possible to grab the leg for defense?

Just wondering? ...will we be able to take the FULL POWER of the KICK?

To me is seens like a dangerous block....because of the power of the kick and you are keeping your head an open tarket..can we recover quickly enough to still defend or counter?

Would this technique fall in the area of learn about it? ....then put in back of other "questionable" techniques?

Aloha

I believe any technique that uses a hand to block a kick, shouldn't really be thought of as a "block" but as a "deflection." If your kick and my block are both coming at each other directly, the stronger leg is going to win. But if my block is traveling, say perpendicular to the direction of your kick, I can deflect the energy of your kick and effectively evade getting hit. The difference is how you use the technique.
Hope that helps!

 

[Cirdan]

If you meet a kick with full power behind it head on with an x block you are going to get hurt.

How about meeting it before it is at full power?

 

[punisher73]

The word for block is "Uke", the same word that we use when we discuss who is on the recieving end of our technique. Uke means, receive. I don't think these were meant so much as "blocks" to stop something as they are as positions to accept and receive the other's technique.

I have seen the "x-block" used against a kick, but it was used before the kick developed it's power (moving into the kick) and as soon as contact was made the hands transitioned into an ankle break. I guess, if you trained to do this and used it, there probably wouldn't be a large concern for a head attack coming in as a follow up on the attacker at that point. But, if you just use it to "stop" the kick than there would be a need to protect the upper level from a follow up.

 

[howard]

A very wise and frighteningly experienced Marine/highly decorated cop/martial artist said "Every time someone has both hands on you you've got a free shot." If you put both hands in line with one of his weapons at the same time your entire high line or entire low line is open.

Excellent point. I try to stress this to people all the time when teaching locking and throwing techniques that occupy both of your hands. You have to position yourself to avoid or negate the inevitable strike from your opponent.

The classic X-block against the knife is criminally bad. Anyone who teaches it should be prosecuted. We know exactly what will happen and how long it will take for the defender to get stabbed multiple times, probably with both hands cut to shreds for good measure. They still teach it. I don't care how many black belts they have or what they could wallpaper with their rank certificates.

I definitely agree with the gist of this. X-blocks against a knife are a terrible idea IMO.

 

[morph4me]

I think that an X block is a misnomer. If I use an X block I use it more as a deflection with options, as I make contact with the X I, let one hand colapse so the strike or kick slides along the outside of the remaiing arm. The weapon is deflected outside my body and the other hand is availble for a strike or controlling technique.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Or, more likely, the problem is you have become so close minded to the concept of application that all you can come up with it something to surface based. This reminds me of a story, the other day I was firing a pellet rifle, and had a few that went off slightly (breathers). Srgt joked 'It was the rifle, wasn't it, -my name here-'. I replyed with 'No, the rifle is great, it was just the idiot holding it'

 

[Kacey]

It depends on the application you're using/teaching - I've learned several for X-block, including a deflection. Most X-blocks that I know require that the person blocking remove the target by stepping out of line with the attack to work properly - although that doesn't always happen in the tul, and has to be taught separately.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Great points above! If one can recover from a full Power kick or meet it before it is thrown to it max and is able to counter makes alot of sense.

Just that will it work most of the time? ...using both hands? and will we be fast enough to counter his next counter attack?

Is this a smart technique to learn? ...for myself....one never see's this in Mma's, kicking boxing, thai boxing,the cage fighing, blocking with two hands.

Rule of thumb? ...if you see it use alot? ...than this works..if not you have to ask why?

Aloha

 

[newGuy12]

Iain Abernethy shows the meaning of the "lower x-block":

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/BasicBunkaiPart3.asp

We see that it is not just a block to a kick.

 

[MJS]

Iain Abernethy shows the meaning of the "lower x-block":

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/BasicBunkaiPart3.asp

We see that it is not just a block to a kick.

Yes, see what can happen when one really understands the meaning of kata and the real meaning of exactly what you're doing.