The Modern Bayonet!

Brian R. VanCise

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Okay the modern bayonet is down the line on any military. However, with all the close hand to hand action we are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan the bayonet is being used.

Here is a write up on the current bayonet used by the US Military
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2003/Nov/Bayonet_Doubles.htm

There have also been a couple of bayonet charges in Iraq and here is one write up by the BBC regarding one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3731635.stm

So who here has bayonets or trains in bayonet techniques?
 

arnisador

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The bayonet article really brings out the fact that the knife is a tool, not just a weapon, for these Marines.
 

KenpoTex

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I've played with bayonet stuff a little. The stuff I've practiced comes from John Styers' classic book "Cold Steel."
 

exile

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Wicked-looking knife... I'd be interested in seeing Cruentus' evaluation of the OKC3S as a practical SD+ tool....

There's a useful write-up/advert here, with a picture (unaccountably missing from the NationalDefenseMagazine story link...)
 

newGuy12

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I once met a US Army sargent who said that if you have to use a bayonet, you are too close. He served in the Viet Nam conflict. He said that if it comes down to the bayonet, do not use it. Grab the entrenching tool instead, no joke.
 

arnisador

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I might disagree with that advcie if it's bayonet-to-bayonet due to reach, but can udnerstand if the otehr person is not using a melee weapon.
 

Archangel M

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Carbine length weapons made out of plastic are not the best bayonet platforms. That being said, when its time for bayonets, its better than going in with knife in hand.
 

exile

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I once met a US Army sargent who said that if you have to use a bayonet, you are too close. He served in the Viet Nam conflict. He said that if it comes down to the bayonet, do not use it. Grab the entrenching tool instead, no joke.

No joke indeed—look at the Wiki article on entrenching tools, which notes in passing that

The German Bundeswehr uses serrated and sharpened E-tools instead of bayonets in close-quarter fighting.
 

Archangel M

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The advantage of bayonets though is that you still have a gun in your hands. You fix them when you think its going to be close quarters. Doesnt mean you are out of ammo. Id rather have something in hand that can cut stab AND shoot than an e-tool.
 
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Brian R. VanCise

Brian R. VanCise

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I do not think that there is any question that the length of a rifle with a bayonet mounted on it is far superior to a knife in the hand. That is so to say a no brainer. It is like a spear vs. a knife. I think we would all opt for the spear.
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Who would you rather face me at the top of my stairs with a loaded shotgun with a bayonet on it or me at the top of my stairs with a knife in hand. :erg: (this is pretty obvious to anyone with tactical training)

Think of almost any instance and you will come to the correct decision. It is in the end a no brainer.
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Tez3

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I don't train bayonet but three of the MMA lads in my club are Infantry instructors who train the British Army's recruits, including the regiments in the BBC article (The regiment mentioned has changed it's name to The Yorkshire Regiment now). Walking around the Infantry Training Centre you can hear the recruits training with the bayonets which I believe also is a way of producing aggression from them.
I'll ask the lads for their views on the bayonet and how they train and post it up.
 

Cruentus

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Wicked-looking knife... I'd be interested in seeing Cruentus' evaluation of the OKC3S as a practical SD+ tool....

There's a useful write-up/advert here, with a picture (unaccountably missing from the NationalDefenseMagazine story link...)

Hey man; hope things are going well. I just ran across this; can't post as much as I used too due to being in and out of areas with restricted internet.

Anyhow, about Bayonets...

Bayonets are cool, but at the moment they don't really fit todays modern urban war environment. They generally are not issued to soldiers. This is because in places lime Iraq or Afganistan, the modern soldier will likely find himself controlling crowds or civilians who are non-combatants (at least at that moment). When this is done, EOF (escalation of force) is generally done with the rifle if the soldier is on foot. A soldier might have to wave someone away with the rifle, or push someone away with their muzzle, or "muzzle punch" an unarmed but violent civilian, and so on. A bayonet fixed to the weapon would be more of a liability in urban environments then an asset.

Having a knife or two in an easily accessable spot would be an essential peice of gear, however.

As to the OKC3S as a practical tool; I would say that it depends. For modern soldiers, I'd have to say that it isn't that practical. Mainly because it is too large. With all of the gear that the average soldier has to have strapped to his IOTV/IBA (body armor) or Mollie gear, knives with blades longer then 6 inches start to lose their practicality. A good fixed blade 4-6" is ideal. Although the OKC3S is probably a nice knife for the price, on par with a kabar, it isn't practical for the modern soldier being that it is too large. For someone else, it'll probably just depend on the situation...

:)
 

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