"The Arrest & Death of Nathaniel Jones"

[Karazenpo]

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Many of you have probably seen the tape of the arrest of this man. (Cincinnatti, Ohio). However, it also has been shown on several networks in a 'cut' or edited manner most probably to draw attention or ratings to that particular network's news channel to stay tuned for the full story, in my opinion anyway. Please view the film in its entirety before giving your viewpoint. The begining shows a 350+ pound African American male charging and punching a police officer who was attempting to calm him down. What most are initially seeing is officers' reactions to this. During the assault on the officer Mr. Jones is clearly heard yelling racial slurs toward the officer while beginning his attack. I only mention this to set the tone of his mental condition and intent toward the officer. Please notice the officer backing up as Mr. Jones approaches and then charges at him in an severely agitated manner. You will also hear officers repeatedly giving him commands to put his hands behind him. Batons were used by police in an attempt to get him to submit. Also bear in mind that trace amounts of "Angel Dust" (PCP-a "horse" tranquilizer) and cocaine were found in his system. Also bear in mind this man was an EDP (emotionally disturbed person). I have seen a pair of police handcuffs (at an Officer Survival seminar) that had marks on them like vice grip pliers and the single strand portions were all twisted. What is significant about this is that they were "BITTEN" off by an EDP. I believe, from what I heard so far, the baton blows were not used to the head area with most to the extremities of the body and other justifiable striking areas. Now, I could stand corrected on that as the investigation unfolds but that was the latest I have as of this posting. Please take everything I have written into consideration when voicing your opinion and please put yourself in the postion of the police officers at the scene and also remember, more often than not an EDP will eventually go for the police officer's gun and they have the strenght to rip it right from the holster. It took a total of six police officers to take him in. The man, unfortunately, died while in police custody. They are currently awaiting an autopsy for the exact cause of death. However, some are speculating, and I admit it is speculation that his actions, obesity and drug use may have brought on a heart attack. Again, please weigh up everything and put yourself there, at the scene, and remember -these officers are not neccessarily skilled martial artists either. What say you?

 

[Karazenpo]

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Here's the story:

Beating case has drug link


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Autopsy finds cocaine, PCP

By Howard Wilkinson
The Cincinnati Enquirer


The 41-year-old Northside man who died early Sunday after a violent videotaped fight with Cincinnati police had cocaine and PCP in his system, the Hamilton County coroner said Monday.

VIDEO


WCPO Video
Dr. Carl Parrott said the drugs are stimulants sometimes linked to "bizarre and violently aggressive behavior."

The widely played videotape showed Nathaniel Jones lunging at police officers and hitting them as they ordered him to stop.

It took six officers repeatedly wielding metal batons to bring the 350-pound man down in a White Castle restaurant parking lot in North Avondale. He died shortly thereafter.

For police, discovery of cocaine and PCP - also known as "angel dust'' - in his system explains much.


Six Cincinnati police officers have been placed on administrative leave following the death of Nathaniel Jones Sunday. They are from top left, Guy Abrams, James Pike, Joehonny Reese, Jay Johnstone, Baron Osterman and Thomas Slade.
(AP photo)

"It certainly clears up in our minds why he was acting the way he was," said Capt. Vincent Demasi, acting commander of the investigations bureau. He said the videotape "shows us our officers were acting within their training. He was an extremely violent individual who was suffering extensively from the effects of these drugs."

Jones' death set off an unwanted replay of the agony and anger that wrenched Cincinnati 2 1/2 years ago, when a police officer shot an unarmed black man in a dark alley. The shooting touched off three nights of street riots and revealed the depth of the city's racial divisions.

Monday, as the official investigations into what happened to Jones and why began to take shape, some activists again charged Cincinnati police with targeting blacks. Some called for the police chief's dismissal.

"If proper police procedure means that you can use that kind of force to clobber people who are clearly disarmed, there is something wrong," said Calvert Smith, president of the Cincinnati chapter of the NAACP.

Mayor Charlie Luken defended the actions of the police.

"It appears that the police responded appropriately and consistent with their training," Luken said. "They'd been attacked with a deadly weapon - a 400-pound man."


Click to view an Acrobat PDF file (168k) showing a detailed timeline of the police encounter with Nathaniel Jones.
(Randy Mazzola infographic)

Jeff Thompson, Jones' roommate and close friend, defended him Monday, saying the father of two was not violent.

"I can't really say what made him do what he did, but what I'm concerned about is that we didn't see what happened before the tape started rolling and what happened after it stopped," Thompson said.

Jones' case was eerily similar to the death of Roger Owensby Jr., who died while Cincinnati police officers tried to handcuff him during a struggle in 2000.

Smith and other activists said the latest death shows little has changed in police use-of-force policies, despite the historic police reform settlement the city made with the Justice Department after the riots and which is monitored by federal courts.


Dr. Calvert Smith, president of the Cincinnati Branch of the NAACP, holds a press conference Monday.
(Steven M. Herppich photo)

The NAACP will conduct its own investigation into the death, which, so far, has resulted in six Cincinnati police officers being placed on administrative leave, a routine procedure in such cases.

But it was clear Monday that it would take some time for investigators to piece together exactly what happened and why.

The coroner could not yet issue a ruling on the cause of death, saying he was still gathering toxicology information, reviewing reports from medical responders and police, and examining the graphic videotape of Jones' confrontation with police.

Parrott said Jones had a "markedly enlarged heart, consistent with hypertensive heart disease." He also said Jones had linear bruises on his right calf, right thigh, right buttock and right flank.

Cecil Thomas, director of the Cincinnati Human Relations Commission, urged people to look at the entire chain of events - from beginning to end.

"If you look at the whole tape, what you see is the officer telling (Jones) to stay back,'' said Thomas, a former city police officer. "What that's saying to me as a former officer is that they're trying to give him some space. The last thing you want to do is get into a physical, hand-to-hand confrontation. But then the individual clearly attacked the officer.''

The bruises found on the calf, thigh and buttocks of Jones' right side - presumably caused by the repeated blows from police officers' batons - show no evidence of causing damage to Jones' internal organs, the coroner's preliminary report said.

Chain of events

Jones' violent confrontation with police unfolded about 6 a.m. Sunday in front of the White Castle restaurant on West Mitchell Avenue in North Avondale.

A restaurant employee called 911 to report a man had passed out in the grass nearby. Firefighters who responded said the man was awake but "becoming a nuisance." They asked for police help.

When the 5-foot, 9-inch, 350-pound suspect attacked the first two officers on the scene, back-up officers were called and, soon, six officers were struggling to handcuff the man, striking him repeatedly with batons, the videotape shows.

When officers got Jones on his stomach and rolled him over, they realized he needed medical help.

He died within minutes of reaching University Hospital.

Jones, said Thompson, suffered from narcolepsy - a sleep disorder that can cause patients to drop off into unconsciousness without notice. That condition, Thompson said, might have been what caused Jones to pass out at the White Castle.

Monday, the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati - the group that organized a boycott of downtown Cincinnati after the April 2001 riots - demanded that Luken fire Police Chief Thomas Streicher because of how officers handled the confrontation.

Streicher is out of town, but Luken rejected that demand Monday and expressed support for the officers.

Said the mayor: "The tape is very clear and very audible. You can hear what people say to each other. At one point in the tape, it's obvious that they're trying very hard not to hit (Jones) in the head."

There are three investigations into the death under way - one by the Citizen Complaint Authority, which was created by the 2002 collaborative agreement; another by police homicide detectives and a third by the police department's internal investigations section.

Question about departure

One question Luken had Monday was why personnel from Cincinnati Fire Department Rescue Company 38 in Winton Place briefly left the scene Sunday morning.

Fire Chief Robert Wright said he can't answer that until he talks to the four-man EMS crew that initially arrived at the White Castle after a report of a unconscious man in the parking lot, then left the scene while police tackled Jones.

"I don't know what they were thinking. I don't know how they saw this," Wright said. "Maybe they saw this guy handcuffed and thought, 'It's under control.'"

The fire chief said he doubts those minutes would have made a difference.

"I don't have the benefit of the coroner's report. I wasn't there, but I just don't think that would have changed anything. He was a flatline when our guys got there."

By 6:04 a.m., the officers are seen on the tape trying to revive Jones.

"Sir! Sir!" one officer shouted.

"I don't see him breathing," another said.

The paramedics returned at 6:05 and begin CPR within a minute of their arrival. Jones was sped by ambulance to University Hospital, but died within minutes of arriving at the emergency room.

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Kevin Aldridge, Dan Horn and Gregory Korte contributed. E-mail [email protected]





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[MisterMike]

I think the officers were justified in their course of actions to restrain the person. In fact, I think he is lucky to have lived as long as he did. While I'm no expert on when police should use deadly force, I know when I would have.

I'm sure Jesse Jackson will be at the funeral.

 

[Touch Of Death]

When person is acting like that a simple net or perhaps a high speen projectile sandbag would have done the trick but as you have stated deadly force was the prefered method and that is exactly what they got, a death. A lot of deaths occur because you got the guy on his stomach with his arms behind his back but... oh well. What's that Rush Limbah calls those people? "Just another dead doper". As Rush will be someday

 

[tshadowchaser]

Not takeing sides on this but what I aw was police beating the liveing hell out of some one. I saw one officer trying to put the mans ams behind his back and failing missably . Lack of knowlege on how to use the batton to put the arms behind the back was evident. The man seemd to be on the ground at one point but the beating seemd to continue. Was he under control at that time , I have no idea, but it looked like he might have been.
I know that many police have only the most basic idea of how to use their battons for pinning , controling, and rendering their suspect accsessable to cuffing.
Im not takeing the dead mans side for police are always in a dangerous posistion when dealing with anyone, I just think better training in the use of the batton might have helped.

 

[theletch1]

Is a big game net or high speed bean bag shot gun standard issue for all police in that area? I don't think a bean bag, even fired from a 12 ga. would have stopped the guy. My take on this is that the officers present did everything by their training and their attacker still died. The reports indicate that only non-lethal areas where targets of the batons. What were the officers to do when attacked by a man who was much larger than them, intent on doing them harm and bouyed by the effects of narcotics? This is and will continue to be a divisive subject on both a racial basis and on what seems to be becoming an inherent dislike of police officers in this country. If the autopsy shows that it was a blow from a baton that killed the man then by all means, punish the officers involved. If, however, the autopsy shows that he died as a result of complications related to his previous ailments and drug use then this should be seen as a wake up call for what our officers face during their rounds.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Mybe the whole beating a guy to death with a baton thing just doesn't look good on TV. I know maybe we should pass laws requiring video of police brutality to be illeagle to show on TV to eliminate rioting. You know like an Ashcroft thing. Good, honest, Godfearing Christian citizens won't mind.

 

[Brian King]

“When person is acting like that a simple net or perhaps a high speen projectile sandbag would have done the trick but as you have stated deadly force was the prefered method and that is exactly what they got, a death”

The use of nets has been deemed illegal for many years now. It seems it is degrading to the ‘victim’ to be treated like a common animal. Beanbags might have worked, against someone who feels pain. When would you suggest that he should have been shot with one? Perhaps when first encountered (instead of trying to calm him down with verbalization) or perhaps after he assaulted the police officer and is now on the offensive? Of course at that range bean bags will break bones and could cause lethal injury. Perhaps a taser could have been used, of course none of the officers present had access to such expensive toys.

As to state that “deadly force was the preferred method and that is exactly what they got, a death” is just ignorant. Learn the use of force continuum that police have to follow. A baton is not lethal force. It is used to stop an attack on the officer (usually by striking the legs and knee area of the attacker and/or his arms and hands if he is punching or grabbing)

“Jones had linear bruises on his right calf, right thigh, right buttock and right flank.”

Hey TOD ever get a bruise on your leg? Did it kill you? To use deadly force people need feel endangered. But feeling endangered is not enough. The person threatening you must also have the ability to do you harm but even that is not enough, they must also have the opportunity to do you harm. Notice I said do you harm. You do not have to wait until you are beaten almost to death the minute that you are losing the conflict you can escalate up the force continuum. Now did the 350 pound drug enraged EDP have the ability to harm them, did he have the opportunity to harm them, where they in jeopardy? If yes to these they could have used deadly force. Uh… TOD that means shooting the attacker until he ends the attack.

“Lack of knowlege on how to use the batton to put the arms behind the back was evident.”

It is against most departmental policies to use a baton as a pain compliance tool. It has no gauges on it to determine the amount of force being used. If used to pry or lock arms (or legs or neck or anything else) the department is likely to be sued as an excessive force issue. Most departments are left with using the batons to make the person attacking comply with the verbal orders being given. (in layman terms hit them till they give up.) The batons are metal (likely ASP batons) expandable and hollow. They are made from aluminum (very light weight) and are designed to give blunt trauma to the area being hit without breaking bones or causing any permanent injury. They cause dysfunction not injury. Most police are trained to hit the subject charging them on the leg(s) until they go down and become compliant. That means that they put their arms behind their back, cross their legs, turn their head that sort of stuff. Yelling I give up while still resisting and not complying does not count.

The loss of life is always regrettable. This man in his physical condition, with the chemicals he put into his body mixing with the natural chemicals that your own body produces during combat is a suicide waiting for the rope. He could have ended the conflict anytime he wanted to by just complying with the officers’ commands. He didn’t want to and judging by the tape had he been able to continue the attack he would have. I am sorry that his children have no father tonight. I would be even sorrier if any of the officers children lost their parents due to this mans behavior and choices.

See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian

 

[Karazenpo]

From a veteran police officer perspective who also served as a member of the drug unit:

A 150 pound man drugged out on a 'horse tranquilizer' (PCP), absolute no feeling of pain, not to mention being an EDP (emotionally disturbed person-doctors have reported the strength of these individuals at times can be of ten men-fact). I have a picture of a pair of handcuffs with what appears to be vice grip plier marks and the single strands of the cuffs were all twisted. They were bit off, yes bit off by an average built EDP with no drugs in his system-this is a documented case-not a fairy tale! Back to my example, a 150 pound strung out EDP can be police offciers' worst nightmare to bring under control. They would have a better shot taking in Mike Tyson. As another poster said the baton is basically taught for striking with very limited controlling and do you know why? because the controlling techniques, no matter how skilled you are do not fair that well in these situations and they get the officer hurt. The bulk of baton training today emphasizes striking. You really have to experience 'rock'n & roll'n with someone of this nature, size and mental condition. It is unbelievable! I knew a guy who was about his size that was heavy into coke. He was shot by another dealer while sitting in his car with a 9 mm thirteen times, all hits, he managed to struggle the gun from his assailant and fired the final round left at him. The guy shot 13 times-survived but walks with a limp to this day! This is documented. I knew personally of some of the parties involved for it happened in my area. My firend had a guy strung out on PCP back in the 70's from a neighboring town P.D. My friend was a tough kid about 6'5" and tilted the scales at around 250. His partner was about 6', 200 and had a reputation as a tough street fighter. The arrestee was a thinly built 160. The call was a man walking nude holding a cat. "No kidd'n, you think I could make this up!, lol. They stopped got out of the cruiser and the guy throws the cat in their face and runs. He breaks into a woman's house, sits down and starts watching a basketball game on tv. The two cops broke the guys arm, collar bone, ribs, jaw and I believe his knee cap. They did $13,000 damage to the lady's house. Again-documented!
One more, the current head of the training division for the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Council at the time was working for a big college police department. He was also an extremely talented martial artist, black belt, and PR-24 intermediate instructor (side-handled baton) in other words he certified baton instructors for the state. At a sporting event a college football player (over 6' and 200) was drunk and caused a disturbance. The cop went to arrest him but this guy decides to fight him. The officer used a two-handed power swing to his knee cap during the struggle. (There were two officers involved). The guy collapses but then gets back up a swings at the officer. The cop pounces on him and takes him back to the ground and they manage to cuff him after a struggle. One officer rode in the back seat with him. He looks down (the guy had shorts on) and his kneecap was 'concaved' in. He had to be flown to another hosptial for special surgery. There was a lawsuit and settlement. The man's blood alcohol content was .30!!!!!!! There are many more stories but I think I've made my point. I'm sure many on this forum have their own true stories of similiar events! It's one of those situations you have to be there and experience it to be able to judge it. Respectfully submitted,

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Brian
The use of nets has been deemed illegal for many years now. It seems it is degrading to the ‘victim’ to be treated like a common animal. Beanbags might have worked, against someone who feels pain. When would you suggest that he should have been shot with one? Perhaps when first encountered (instead of trying to calm him down with verbalization) or perhaps after he assaulted the police officer and is now on the offensive? Of course at that range bean bags will break bones and could cause lethal injury. Perhaps a taser could have been used, of course none of the officers present had access to such expensive toys.

As to state that “deadly force was the preferred method and that is exactly what they got, a death” is just ignorant. Learn the use of force continuum that police have to follow. A baton is not lethal force. It is used to stop an attack on the officer (usually by striking the legs and knee area of the attacker and/or his arms and hands if he is punching or grabbing) Hey TOD ever get a bruise on your leg? Did it kill you? To use deadly force people need feel endangered. But feeling endangered is not enough. The person threatening you must also have the ability to do you harm but even that is not enough, they must also have the opportunity to do you harm. Notice I said do you harm. You do not have to wait until you are beaten almost to death the minute that you are losing the conflict you can escalate up the force continuum. Now did the 350 pound drug enraged EDP have the ability to harm them, did he have the opportunity to harm them, where they in jeopardy? If yes to these they could have used deadly force. Uh… TOD that means shooting the attacker...

See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian

Oh Brian, I said what killed him was putiing a 350 pound man on his stomach with his arms behind his back. The police know this, it happens all the time, they might as well have shot him in the head.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

The death has just been listed as a homocide.

 

[Rich Parsons]

A couple of things:

First to have it lsited as a homocide is not an issue in my book. I know an officer that was involved in a shooting and was on suspension as per procedure and was under investiagtion of homocide. Not sure of the state or local laws or policies, so I could be wrong.

I also echo that people on drugs have no idea of pain. I helped a police officer with a bad guy who was on drugs. This guy bit the police officer three times, I personally peeled his fingers off of the holster and gun numerous times as all three of us were rolling around. I tried a lock on him and had my weight on top of him. He just lifted his arm, broke his wrist and said FU and continues to fight. Funny thing is the officer went to call for back up in the middle of the fight, and I just rolled over on my back and had him grabbed while he was facing up. I thought if he saw the sky he would not think he was trapped. He relaxed for a couple of seconds, long enough for the officer to call for back up. Then we were back on again.

It is not a good situation for anyone involved.

 

[dearnis.com]

A few things...
First "beanbag" rounds are not and never will be a cure-all. Also, there was no possibility of deploying these rounds in this situation (I can elaborate if needed).
PERHAPS a taser would have been an option, but with the man's heart condition the outcome may have been no different.

The next comment is not intended to be a flame, but....
if you have never had the experience of a doped-up, violent offender laughing off your best shots you may not have the full perspective needed to evaluate this incident.

Both PCP and cocaine can and do bring out this type of behavior; apparently this subject had injested both.

Remember, homicide is only the first half of the ruling; they nust need to hand "justifiable" on the front.

Chad

 

[OULobo]

I guess I'll feild an opinion on this one. The guy made the first move on the cops. This means he is dangerous, something that most cops I have ever met assume of everyone all the time, and should be (generally are) prepared to deal with in an assertive not aggressive way. I think that he was dangerous until he hit the ground. A 350 lb. man doesn't get up easily. That is the time the cops should have stepped back to reassess(sp) how the situation had changed. This is not when you step in and beat the living snot out of him. I know that modern "non-lethals" or "less-than-lethals" like beanbags and tasers are nice, but they aren't always available and they could've still caused his heart to fail anyway. I know that the police didn't strike at targets that generally cause death or potentially fatal injuries, but they did continuously whale on a man that looked like he would have had trouble even getting up. What about some mace or OC to disorient and then let him have his little fit until he is tired. Then restrain him and call in a paddy wagon for the big boy. Its not like he's going to outrun (not exactly a sprinter) the police or steal a car (if he could fit in one) while the police are standing there. Every schoolkid used to know not to beat on a man when he is down.

So while I think they are responsible for his death, I don't think they should be punished for his death. They did apply medical attention immediatly and tried to keep him alive. I do, however, think they used excessive force in restraining him and should be punished for that. Cinncy is already a hotbed of racial tension and the police need to be aware of this in their everyday actions. I have personally heard too many police officers gripe in personal conversations about "sensitivity" training and how the criminals are not sensitive to them, but if you continue to be insensitive in appearance and to the needs of the people they will get "insensetive" up-side the officers' head in a riot.

 

[MisterMike]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
When person is acting like that a simple net or perhaps a high speen projectile sandbag would have done the trick but as you have stated deadly force was the prefered method and that is exactly what they got, a death. A lot of deaths occur because you got the guy on his stomach with his arms behind his back but... oh well. What's that Rush Limbah calls those people? "Just another dead doper". As Rush will be someday

No, it wasn't the preferred method but it was what he had coming for resisting. He knew his weight as well, and should have made it easier on himself. As usuall, the libs come out with "it's everyone else's fault but their own."

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by MisterMike
No, it wasn't the preferred method but it was what he had coming for resisting. He knew his weight as well, and should have made it easier on himself. As usuall, the libs come out with "it's everyone else's fault but their own."

How could it possibly be a "lib's fault" that the police beat the hell out of a guy.

 

[Karazenpo]

O.C. or any of the chemical derterants aren't nearly as good as they are cracked up to be, especially on an EDP and/or drugged out subjects. As a matter of fact in Massachusetts, in O.C. training we take a hit of hit and then go on to fight two padded individuals for a minute or two just to show the officer that with the proper mindset you can still put up a hell of a fight after being hit with O.C. We have this videotaped. When OC first came out there was an incident of an obese man who took a bat to cars on Route 9 in Natick, Mass. not far from where I work. Cops came and he was throwing them around like rag dolls. They used all their OC and he still fought like an animal. They finally subdued him and he died of a heart attack while in custody.

The man was told 16 times by police to put his hands behind his back while being struck in non-lethal areas. Which part of that didn't he understand? I have to assume he understood english since he called the officer 'white boy' and 'redneck'. In grappling you are taught it is the strength in your legs that can take you from the ground back to your feet. He certainly had strong enough legs.

Now, for the kenpo people on this forum. Aren't you taught rapid fire speed striking to 'vulnerable' areas of the body? When critics tell you it's overkill don't you answer with something like this: "It is not overkill, we are taught to strike only the number of times it takes to subdue the opponent, we stop only when the threat has been neutralized". Now, why too, after striking, would we want to stop and step back and let him recover so we can start all over again? We don't teach our students that. Please remember, once the cops are beaten the bad guy has full access to firearms in which he can shoot the police and kill innocent civillians. This is no theory, it has happened and has happened way too often! Cops are not trained to fight fair, they are not trained to fight by the 'Queensbury Rules', they are trained to fight to WIN. A municipality or state spends tax dollars to train and equip officers to win, not lose.

I believe it was 1979 in California. A police officer was sent to a call where the suspect was reported to have been 'dusted' (PCP). An absolute minimum of two officers were to be dispatched on any PCP calls. One officer arrived first and before back up arrived he was encountered by the man, average weight and height, maybe 155-165 pounds. This guy picked up a long length of heavy piping that had been laid on the side of the road for construction work and swung it at this officer. He ripped his badge off his uniform so violently that he bent the back of the badge. He ripped open the cruiser door breaking the hinges and then tore the shotgun that had been mounted in the cruiser from its locked support. The officer made his way around the cruiser with his service revolver pointed right at the suspect telling him to put the shotgun down. The suspect laid the gun on the roof of the cruiser but never took his finger from the trigger guard. Thinking the man was complying, the officer lowered his gun as he went to walk around to the suspect. At this point this guy fired the shotgun killing the cop. Back ups arrived and a German Shepherd police dog was sent after the suspect as he was fleeing. When this guy tried to shoot the dog the K-9 tore into his arm and the dog sustained repeated blows with the butt of the rifle but never backed off and kept tearing into this guy. He was finally subdued and brought to the hospital. The doctor that worked on him stated there was so much PCP in his system that he could have went through open heart surgery with no other anesthetics and felt no pain!!!!!!!!! Documented by Charles Remsberg and Dennis Anderson-Police Officer's Street Survival seminars sponsered by the Calibre Press.

Please ask any officer who has lived through a situation like that before second guessing them-it was no overkill. They did what they had to do to protect the community and go home to their families at the end of their tour of duty. Please don't begrudge them that! Sincerely submitted,

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Let's look at the facts here.

1) 350lb man
2) intoxicated/under the infuence
3) attacked police officer without provocation
4) resisted arrest
5) ignored orders to comply during strugle
6) was struck with baton to non-lethal areas
7) heart disease
8) consumed an unknown quantity of whitecastle burgers before the altercation
9) continued fighting until 6 officers subdued him

This guy died because he was an idiot not because the police killed him. He didn't die from blows or strangulation. He died because he was a big fat slob with a heart condition on drugs who tried to fight six guys in cold weather.

 

[Karazenpo]

Old Fat Kenpoka wrote:
This guy died because he was an idiot not because the police killed him. He didn't die from blows or strangulation. He died because he was a big fat slob with a heart condition on drugs who tried to fight six guys in cold weather.




Allen, what I and others have tried to communicate in thousands of words on this incident-you have done in four lines! Great post!

 

[Karazenpo]

Make that three lines!!!!!!!!!, lol.