The 540 kick

[ralphmcpherson]

Do you guys see this kick as a definite part of the tkd curriculum or just an added extra you or your students can learn? Im asking because more and more I get the impression that to non tkdists they think the 540 kick goes with learning tkd. Yet again, the other day I had a friend of a friend (who knows I do tkd) ask me to do a 540 kick, just assumig that because I do tkd that I can just let one rip whenever I feel like it. I told him that not only can I not do one, but that I have no interest in knowing how and that to be completely honest I dont really know what one is, I mean I know one if I see one but I certainly couldnt break one down and teach it to someone. This particular friend of a friend seemed bemused by that and actually said to me that "thats like being a japanese chef but not knowing how to make sushi" (interestig analogy). Where do you guys stand on this? To the instructors, do you teach it to every student? Is it a part of your curriculum, or perhaps even a grading requirement? Also, what percentage of tkdists do you believe could do one, can the top sports tkdists do them, could steve lopez or aaron cook do one, or is it just a trick kick for a bit of fun on the side? With me not beig part of a big org, Im curious as to whether Im just behind the 8 ball on this and all other clubs teach it as a tkd staple.

 

[granfire]

I thought a 360 was a full revolution....

A kick with that has marginal applications...
540...how many time sis that around? 1 1/2 times?

I got enough problems with a 360...

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I thought a 360 was a full revolution....

A kick with that has marginal applications...
540...how many time sis that around? 1 1/2 times?

I got enough problems with a 360...

Me too. It was funny at our club championships, a 3rd dan I train with perfected a 540 as a timber break, it took him ages and he got it down real good. On the day of the championships he absolutely nailed it and won the trophy for the timber breaking section. When you watch it back on video you can see the judges (all 6th dan and above) looking confused and rotating their fingers on the desk trying to work out how many times he spun around and what the hell he had actually done. The judges had no idea and Ive since found out that in the history of our club there have only been a few people to master the kick because we dont teach it, if you want to learn it you do so in your spare time. Ironically, when you watch 540 vids on youtube you will quite often read comments from people saying they want to do tkd so they can learn one, yet Im wondering what percentage of clubs actually teach the kick.

 

[ATC]

It is not part of any requirements for us but many of the young guys learn it and our Sabumnim will teach it to those that want to learn it. I myself will never be able to pull it off at my age, the knees just won't allow it.

The kick itself is quite easy if you have the knees for it. You simply land on the foot that you kicked with. My son pulled it off at 9 years old.

 

[StudentCarl]

It's extra, not core...something fun for the young and athletic to stretch themselves. Most of our teenage black belts play with it.

I just say it's part of the victory dance I'll do after I knock you out with something simple.

 

[sfs982000]

It's not part of our core kicking and we're not graded on it for promotions. We do have a XMA/Demo team that alot of the members of the team play with that kick for the simple fact it's flashy and looks good in a demo (if you nail it).

 

[Manny]

The 360 and all thosa flanboyan/flashy/expectacular kicks are not part of our curriculum and even some teens wants to performe them it's on their own. This kicks are spectacular for the show, I've been seein the korean tigers doing them and they are spectacular.

Would I like to do them? Offcourse I would but I don't have the time to learn them and practice them and my age, size and weight don't allow me.

Do I feel bad because I can't even do a nice spining/jumping hook kick? Npt at all.

I adhere to he things I can do well and this is to adhere to the basics, so the people who says doing TKD and can not perform that kind of kicks (360,540,720,etc) is something like been a japanese and not doing sushi they are simply a bunch of idiots.

Something weird that hapenen some weeks ago, we have an interchange japanese teen practicing TKD, he simply is not as coordinated or good as we tought, the other guys told me: C'mon he is japanese but he knows a s.... about martial arts??!!! An I told them, not every Mexican likes or play soccer (the national sport for exelence in Mexico) so not every japanese must to do or knows karate.

So yes those falnboyants kicks are terrific for the show but I see little or no aplication on the real world but movies.

Manny

 

[TKD_Father]

My son pulled it off at 9 years old.

Mine got it at 10.

 

[miguksaram]

I thought a 360 was a full revolution....

A kick with that has marginal applications...
540...how many time sis that around? 1 1/2 times?

I got enough problems with a 360...

Well it is not meant for us old farts. ha.ha.ha.ha

A lot of our kids do the the 540 as one of the first "tricks" they learn for XMA. A trick is to get the momentum going on the rotation. Is it practical? Most likely not. That is not to say that it is impossible to use in an altercation. However, it is meant for demo purposes and not part of any core program that I know of.

 

[puunui]

You simply land on the foot that you kicked with.

We first need to determine if we are all talking about the same kick as the 540. To me, a 540 looks like a roundhouse kick spin hook kick combination. Some people say a 540 is a narabang (360 degree roundhouse kick) spin hook kick combination, which I call a 720. Then there is the double narabang, which I call a 900. Sounds like you and I have the same definition of what a 540 is.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

We first need to determine if we are all talking about the same kick as the 540. To me, a 540 looks like a roundhouse kick spin hook kick combination. Some people say a 540 is a narabang (360 degree roundhouse kick) spin hook kick combination, which I call a 720. Then there is the double narabang, which I call a 900. Sounds like you and I have the same definition of what a 540 is.

I call it a "3 pi", just to get the kids in high school thinking.

 

[ATC]

We first need to determine if we are all talking about the same kick as the 540. To me, a 540 looks like a roundhouse kick spin hook kick combination. Some people say a 540 is a narabang (360 degree roundhouse kick) spin hook kick combination, which I call a 720. Then there is the double narabang, which I call a 900. Sounds like you and I have the same definition of what a 540 is.

Yes I think we are on the same page.

This is what I call a 720 or a 540 into a back spin or (hook) kick. You will note that the first kick is really a 360 with an extra 180 at the end and if landed would be on the same foot as the round kick. But the kicker continues an additional 180 to finish with a second kick being the back spin (hook) kick. 2 full rotations. Now to call this a 540 is cutting it short I say but in any case you won't see me doing this kick anymore. Someone would have to pick up my knees afterwards.
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[Earl Weiss]

Does the degree of rotation in the name of the kick designate the degree of rotation while in the air?

I ask beccasue if you watch the last kick on the paddles the first kick makes contact while the non kicking leg is still touching the ground, or so it seems. (even if you were to perceive that the contact was just before the support foot left the ground and only the aerial portion would count as the name of the kick, it might be a 370 degree kick.

This means that the rotation while in the air is only 360 degrees.

For our terminology the degree of rotation for the kick name must be completely done in the air.

 

[miguksaram]

Yes I think we are on the same page.

This is what I call a 720 or a 540 into a back spin or (hook) kick. You will note that the first kick is really a 360 with an extra 180 at the end and if landed would be on the same foot as the round kick. But the kicker continues an additional 180 to finish with a second kick being the back spin (hook) kick. 2 full rotations. Now to call this a 540 is cutting it short I say but in any case you won't see me doing this kick anymore. Someone would have to pick up my knees afterwards.
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That is different than what we do:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNIKmXNe0g0&feature=fvst
This is what we have been calling a 540. Not that one is right and the other is not. Just a different take.

 

[andyjeffries]

That is different than what we do.

This is what we have been calling a 540. Not that one is right and the other is not. Just a different take.

I would say you and ATC are describing the same thing. ATC's YouTube video showed a 720 or a "540 in to hook kick". That is, the kick you also showed but instead of just keeping your non kicking foot tucked (and landing on your initial kicking foot) you throw it out as a hook kick.

 

[Bruno@MT]

In the video with the 3 consecutive kicks, do the first 2 really count as 'kicks'?

From looking at the video, calling them kicks would be a stretch imo. I mean sure, the foot connects with the paddle, but there is no power and the angle of the leg really doesn't allow for a good impact. Not saying about the last kick because that has momentum behind it, but the first 2 are more for show.

Btw, how does it work out if the first or second kick connects with a human body instead of the paddle? Doesn't it break the momentum to a degree that you just fall down again?

 

[Manny]

Btw, how does it work out if the first or second kick connects with a human body instead of the paddle? Doesn't it break the momentum to a degree that you just fall down again?

I think if the fisrt and/or the second kick conects a hard surface (like a human torso for example) could break the momentum.

Manny

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

That is different than what we do:
[yt]hNIKmXNe0g0[/yt]

This is what we have been calling a 540. Not that one is right and the other is not. Just a different take.

These are a little different from what I learned as a 540 degree kick. Let me give a small breakdown:
360 spin kick - Foot travels one full rotation, such as a spin kick where from a normal fighting stance, you make contact with the back foot, and it returns to the back foot position. 360 degree rotation.

450 spin kick - Foot travels 1 1/4 rotation, such as a spin kick where from a horse stance, you make contact with foot further from the initial spin rotation. 450 degree rotation.

540 spin kick - Foot travels 1 1/2 full rotation, such as a spin kick where from a normal fighting stance, you make contact with the lead foot, and it returns to the back foot position. 540 degree rotation.

When I started TKD back in '72, we were not required to do a 540. I first saw a 540 in Hapkido in '76. I never even heard of a 450 until I studied Do Hap Sool in '81. These are definitely special kicks and considered "fancy and or impractical" by many. Usually non-kickers, or older guys. Granted, these are for younger guys and do have a small window of realistic applications, but when used right, they are devastating. There is a lot of torque generated, and when applied right, the results are usually KO.

The step spin back kick and step spin kick are the basics for these kicks. Then we begin to add air...

One of my students has made several videos on youtube that show our version of spin kicks including the 360, 450 and 540. I think he used footage from our FMS demo dvd and FMS Jok Sul dvds. I don't know how to embed them but here are a couple of links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3-jIed0IWs&feature=channel

At 3:50 you'll find our 540 spin back kick.
At 4:34 you'll find the 540 spin back kick over an object.
At 4:40 you begin to see the 360 spin kick and variations
At 4:53 you'll find the 450 spin kick
At 4:55 you'll find our version of the 540

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCWYUUJfuL0&feature=channel_video_title

In this clip you'll find applications for low kicks (ha che jok sul), combination kicks (pok sik jok sul) and spin kicks (tora jok sul). I believe there is a version for 540 towards the end.

Hope this adds to the conversation.
With respect and brotherhood,
Kuk Sa Nim

 

[Earl Weiss]

Color me clueless.

Why does it matter how many times or how much you spin around on the ground? If I stand on one foot and spin 3 times in a circle (1080) then jump off that foot and do a half revolution in the air is that a 1260?

Or, If I spin once in a circle (360) jump in the iar and do a half turn and then land on one foot continuing the rotation another half turn is that a 720?

From the posted videos, few if any actualy spun more than 360 degrees after the last foot to leave the floor was airborne and before the first foot to land touched down.

As far as the above linked video with the rock breaks at 2:16 & 2:19 does anyone else consider it cheating to lift up the end of the rock and allow it to slam down as you strike It?

 

[Bruno@MT]

As far as the above linked video with the rock breaks at 2:16 & 2:19 does anyone else consider it cheating to lift up the end of the rock and allow it to slam down as you strike It?

Breaking like that is a parlor trick.
Even a newbie can break rocks if he lifts one end before striking it.