Teh Triumph of Vulgarity

[elder999]

Let me start with a confession: there are times when I’m unpleasantly impatient. I’ve been known to be rude, and there are reports, probably accurate, of my having been sarcastic. There are occasions I enjoy racy humor, and I have a notoriously earthy nature and vocabulary. I can be almost abusive to people who I believe are being less than intelligent, sometimes to the point of irrational belligerence.

One thing I never am, however, is vulgar.

I continue to be amazed at how willing many people are to accept the abysmal standards of society’s lowest common denominators. Yes, I realize it is symptomatic of a decaying, increasingly destructive culture. Perhaps what amazes me most is the rapidity with which the collapse of this society is occurring.

Last week we were in the bookstore. We took our selections to the counter to pay, and there was a very nice looking, well dressed, white haired older woman in front of us. During the course of paying for her purchases she used the “f” word twice. The clerk appeared totally unfazed by the woman’s language. A friend told me of driving in Santa Fe, when an older woman almost hit him. He honked the horn, and she flipped him off. It was summer, their windows were rolled down, so he said “Que pasa con usted, senora? Usted es abuelita, y debe que ser ejemplo. Que verguenza (“What’s the matter with you? You’re a grandmother, who ought to be a role model. Shame on you.”) She replied, “**** you!.” My friend, who was raised in a very traditional Northern New Mexican/Spanish family, was appalled. When he told me about it, he still couldn’t believe it had happened. I wish I could say that things like this were the exception, but they aren’t. They’re the norm. Several generations in this country have been raised with minimal, if any, social skills. Many in the generations preceding them, who ought to know better, have abandoned the higher standards that once prevailed. It seems as if just about anything goes. The prevailing standard today is “Give me mine, and get out of my way.”

The triumph of vulgarity can regularly be seen in every area of life. In politics, it’s simply taken for granted that higher morals and standards will not influence political decisions. Political life seems determined by special interests that are unconnected to any traditional ideas of community or justice. Religion seems equally plagued and crippled by seeking to be relevant to popular culture. I’m not speaking here to those who insist on enacting their personal moral code into law; they condemn themselves. I’m speaking of how religion has abandoned its duty to inform the development of a person’s conscience.

In entertainment, the triumph of vulgarity is most evident. I recently say an advertisement for a sci-fi show where an animated character simulates sexual intercourse with the Creator of the universe, referring to it as the “big bang.” This is disrespectful; it is vulgar; most disturbing of all, it is insane. One of my teachers, a Native American, once told me a story of leaving his traditional community and moving to Los Angeles, where he got a job. His grandfather came to visit, and didn’t seem o be enjoying himself. He asked, “Grandfather, I’ve taken you to so many beautiful places here and shown you so many wonderful things. You haven’t made any comment. You’ve simply sat quietly and stared. What’s the matter?” His grandfather looked at him in amazement and replied, "Grandson, can’t you see that these people are not in their right minds?” I’m not sharing this with you in order to attack Los Angeles. I do, however, want to use it as an example for the society at large. You cannot remain long in a dysfunctional environment without being affected by it, both internally and externally. I’ve met wonderful people who live in Los Angeles, but it is difficult for them to remain there. They have to be very careful not to be transformed by its chaos. Los Angeles is not the only such place, nor is it the worst. It is simply one of the most dramatic.

Where insanity and vulgarity are the norm it becomes increasingly difficult to lead a balanced, harmonious life. A big part of the problem is that people begin seeing the insanity as acceptable, or just the way things arte. For me, the proof that people are not in their right mind-if I needed more proof-is when little grandmothers flip people off and casually use the “f” word.

Only a short time ago, right here in our rural neighborhood, the wife and I were the objects of someone’s road rage. I stopped at a stop sign, and a woman in a huge SUV almost hit us. I suppose she wasn’t expecting me to stop. I pulled over for her to go on by. She stopped in the middle of the road and rolled down her window. “Have you got a problem?” she snarled. “No,” I replied, “but you almost hit us. We’re not in a hurry. Why don’t you go ahead?” I wish you could have seen her face! She completely transformed, and her face was contorted into a mask of absolute rage, hatred, and, yes, even evil. She began shouting, so I pulled around to leave. She came right up behind us, only inches from our rear bumper. When we went through the village, I pulled into the restaurant so I could call 911 (our cell phones simply don’t work up there.) Thankfully, she just kept going. I truly don’t think she recognized what had happened to her. She had allowed her hostility and aggression to take over, and become a loathsome, vulgar thing.

When we create situations where people are treated with honor and respect, there are unintended consequences. When we treat people otherwise, there are also consequences. What can we do to commit ourselves to less chaos in the world? We can refuse to take part in mindless materialism, and stop pretending that gangsterism, whether in fashion, music, language or art, is acceptable. We can stop viewing the violent, gratuitous vulgarity that regularly spews forth from Hollywood as entertainment. When they talk about “pushing the envelope,” what they’re promoting is progressively more vulgar and violent content. It is the exact opposite of creativity or talent. We can stand up and say that, yes, there are moral codes of behavior which transcend materialism, consumerism, religion, economics or other human power structures

 

[Kacey]

The problem, as I see it, is not the vulgarity itself, but the total lack of courtesy, and, even more, self-control, that is demonstrated by too many people.

A couple of quotes from The Notebooks of Lazarus Long, by Robert Heinlein, which seem, at some level, to be contradictory:

"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities "empty", "meaningless", or "dishonest" and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."

"Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated out of nothing, "blasphemy" is the most amazing - with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure" fighting it out for second and third place."

Despite the apparent contradictions inherent in these quotes, Heinlein points out that courtesy it required to maintain society - but some of the rules of courtesy are, relatively speaking, somewhat arbitrary. I agree that profanity is offensive - at least to me - but to some people profanity is no longer offensive, because it has become too common, and no longer has the shock value it once has. For myself, I find that to be a sad commentary on the state of society, and I feel that I can only attempt to demonstrate another method.

 

[JasonASmith]

This is a great post...:asian:
To me, all of the examples that you have given above are results of a deficient upbringing...To my mind, if the parents of all of these people actually took the time to explain from the beginning that courtesy is of utmost importance, many of these problems might be avoided...The road rage thing is a result of a lack of restraint, of...Oh my God!...SELF discipline(I would hope most of the people here would remember that concept...it could keep us alive)...This country used to be based on the ideals of a FAMILY, now it's based on the ideals of a BUSINESS...It's one of the most tragic losses that we have ever seen...

 

[heretic888]

In entertainment, the triumph of vulgarity is most evident. I recently say an advertisement for a sci-fi show where an animated character simulates sexual intercourse with the Creator of the universe, referring to it as the “big bang.” This is disrespectful; it is vulgar; most disturbing of all, it is insane.

Well, that's one way of looking at it....

Another way is to realize that all this bemoaning about "vulgarity" and "obscenity" is little different than all the bemoaning about "homosexual unions" and "interracial couples". It always happens when the increasingly archaic norms of one generation are increasingly displaced by the norms of the next. Rest assured, people will be having this "debate" again in about 30 or 40 years, but it will be about my generation's kids instead.

That's a big difference between common courtesy and respect. That means you actually acknowledge the other as a person and try to take their feelings and perspective into account. That doesn't mean you will not use X words in conversation (because, apparently, they're intrinsically "vulgar" because society says so), but it means you will only use language at times that is appropriate for the social setting. Not because those words are magically "bad", but because you do not wish to offend the sensibilities of the other.

So, tell me, how many of you guys think Jimmi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath are "obscene", "vulgar", or "insane"?? Those arguments were certainly used when they were the Next Big Thing, and it was the exact same reasoning behind it. Who thinks a teenage couple holding hands in public is "vulgar"?? It was considered so at one time.

As for the "Big Bang" thing, I personally think that's hilarious. It also reminds me somewhat of Tantric mythology involving Shiva and his consort Shakti having intercourse to make and unmake the manifest universe. In any event, I'm glad such things are around in society, if only to ruffle feathers, rattle cages, and gore sacred cows. Because, Buddha knows, they need to be gored.

Have a good one.

 

[MA-Caver]

The decay of our society as I often said begins in the home. Think for a moment upon where the older generations have come from? The little bird-flipping grandmothers are about what? 60-70-80 years old? So for them to be say... 16-18, 20-25 yrs old they would've been growing up living their youth during the late 50's, 60's and early 70's. Look at the attitudes of the youth in that day. On one side were the clean cut, moral (??) crew-cut/Sandra Dee type teenagers and young people to the long-haired, beared, LSD popping hippies that distained society and authority. Both of these types grew up, Then you have the sexual revolution of the 70's and cocaine addled disco craze of the time. What were the attitudes then? Law abiding? Well basically... as long as they weren't caught with a small zip-loc baggie of white powder or a minced herbal green plant on their persons. Should it be a surprise that we have finger-flipping grandmothers around today?
Remember George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on TV? On the three main networks that used to rigidly, stringently ban such words ... I've heard each of those words at one time or another on said netword programs in recent years. But then you can go to any Cable channel and get the full uncut versions of Scarface (Pacino) and Good Fellas (Pesci/DeNiro) both were record breakers for the number of times the "f-word" was used.
Now we have South-Park which the movie reportedly used the word 24 times in a little over one minute. The show that holds the record for the most numerous utterances of the word on television is the HBO series Deadwood. The constant use of the word soon inspired a web site dedicated to keeping track of the Deadwood F--- Count, which has recorded about 1.54 "f---" per minute.
A list of movies that hold the record, Casino is #1 with 398 times, can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_ordered_by_uses_of_the_word_%22****%22
Referring back to Carlin's famous 7 words ... from Wikipedia comes this statement:

In 1973, comedian George Carlin had recorded a monologue known as "Filthy Words" containing seven different obscenities. The Pacifica radio station WBAI-FM broadcast it uncensored on October 30 of the same year. A man driving in the car with his son heard the broadcast and complained to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) because of his son having heard the broadcast.

Following the lodging of the complaint, the FCC proceeded to ask Pacifica for a response, then issued a declaratory order upholding the complaint. No specific sanctions were included in the order, but WBAI was put on notice that "in the event subsequent complaints are received, the Commission will then decide whether it should utilize any of the available sanctions it has been granted by Congress."

Pacifica appealed against this decision, which was overturned by the Court of Appeals. The FCC in turn appealed to the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the FCC, see: F.C.C. v. Pacifica Foundation 438 U.S. 726 (1978) and First Amendment Library entry on the case.

This decision formally established indecency regulation in American broadcasting. In follow-up rulings, the Supreme Court clarified that the words might be acceptable under certain circumstances, particularly at times when children would not be expected to be in the audience.

There WERE laws preventing this sort of behavior... but as seen above... they were changed or thrown out or revised (as in this instance) for one reason or another. Is it any wonder? They expected children will NOT be exposed to the material. Being naive is an understatement here.
Music has also been an influence on vulgarity. Rap music (which in my personal opinion is a serious waste of Black talent... remember Motown?) has vulgar expletives throughout almost every "song" and vulgar acts described; 2 Live Crew As Nasty as They Wanna Be as a perfect example of this beginning. Then Cop Killa by Ice T and other examples. Rock/Heavy Metal music is likewise as guilty as well as a few country/western songs.
We had Tipper Gore and her czar-ism against obscene language used in music but we all saw how well that turned out. A label on the covers... helps kids FIND the music and the record stores don't give a damn about selling them because they want to make money.
Video games, another influence on society mores. Dispite the over-blown hype against the violence of the games and the vulgarity that can be found in them (one has the expletitive of a woman's sex organ used in it... and it isn't the "P-word" either).
So while one part of society rails against it, another part supports it. Who's going to win? The side that has the most money. Because the most money can afford the best lawyers to fight it all in the courts.

We all can choose to be as nice or as nasty as we want to be. To be nice and respectful in every manner of communication and actions is seen (in my circle of friends) a lost art and is well reciprocated. I do know other people where vulgarity is accepted and commonly used. It depends upon who I'm with.
My parents were decent, God-fearing people. My father well respected in his circles and set good examples for me to follow, which I try today to live up to. My other life was one of vulgarity and criminality, of which today I am distainful of and try to avoid at all costs... but understanding of the circumstances that these people have put themselves in. But it's still a choice. I've a friend who's (alcoholic) dad used to beat the crap out of him on a nearly daily basis and his mom brought home various men (after the divorce) who were vulgar and beat him around too... along with mom. Yet he turned out to be a very decent fellow once he managed to leave home. Law abiding citizen and a good father/loving husband to boot. He makes the choice that dictates his lifestyle and the way he treats people in general. As for myself, sometimes I'll slip and let the vulgar side pop-up in my conversations. If a person doesn't mind I'll continue without a second thought. If they do mind and say something I'll make a concious effort (a choice) to refrain from the language/action and hopefully continue to build on a good friendship/relationship. Not as hard as it may seem.
We are influenced by what's around us by our senses and our daily intellectual input via the media and personal interactions, and those influences can/do affect our choices if we let them on how we interact with our world and the people in our world.
Personally and this is just my opinion though there are those on this board who will disagree with it because it conflicts with their personal beliefs; Our influences are being influenced by an unseen evil force. Satan, the devil, God's opposite number, whispers to our ears on a daily basis that "this is okay, this is what (we) want, this is GOOD, this doesn't hurt anyone, it's human nature, it's natural, everyone does it, who cares, so what, " and so on. People deny this all the time because it's become a daily thing and credit those thoughts as their own. Remember the words of Kaiser Soze: "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he didn't exist."

We've become a nation of tolerance of all things except that which threatens our security to live the lives we choose to live, i.e. Terrorism/terrorists, whom for some odd reason sees us as an EVIL nation. Well maybe we are and maybe we aren't but we'll be damned if we'll let them tell us if that's true or not! We're perfectly capable of making such decisions on our own. ... aren't we?

 

[Don Roley]

I have a theory about this.

I think it has a lot to do with the mobility of our society. I can do something 20 minutes by car from my home and probably never be recognized ever again. Contrast this with a time when you were in a situation where everyone would know what you did for the majority of your existance.

Take a look at how some people seem to act different when they are around their neighbors, and how they change when they are behind the wheel of a car across town.

People can do things and then walk away from any stigma over their actions. It is a given that folks in big cities are ruder than folks in small hamlets. I think that my theory explains why. And I think that society can only get more mobile with the resulting problems.

 

[Kensai]

I have a theory about this.

I think it has a lot to do with the mobility of our society. I can do something 20 minutes by car from my home and probably never be recognized ever again. Contrast this with a time when you were in a situation where everyone would know what you did for the majority of your existance.

Take a look at how some people seem to act different when they are around their neighbors, and how they change when they are behind the wheel of a car across town.

People can do things and then walk away from any stigma over their actions. It is a given that folks in big cities are ruder than folks in small hamlets. I think that my theory explains why. And I think that society can only get more mobile with the resulting problems.

Good point. Think it's also linked to the general total lack of community spirit inherent (generally speaking) in the western world too. I'm not sure that there's more or less "vulgarity" in society, but I do think that social decay is on the increase, massive petty crime levels, drugs, over-crowding, lack of caring by state educated, largely illiterate TV mad, self obsessed, money orientated, bling infatuated slobs. No offence guys, but I see it as nothing more than the increasing "Americanisation" of the Western world. Almost impossible to escape. That increasing level of McDonaldsitus. Original, indigenous cultures that are having their values eroded. The Brits "are/were" renowned for being polite. Utter rubbish now. This place is in effect the 51st state. It's less prevalent in non-English speaking European cultures, or the non English speaking world, but in the likes of Australia and NZ, it's having a similar effect there too. The sooner that's stopped, the better. No offence meant by that either. :asian:

 

[crushing]

Watching the Roast of William Shatner on Comedy Central last night made me think of this thread.

There seems to be some regional influence, or maybe it's urban v. rural, but at work I deal a lot less with people from the Chicago area office, but have heard the f-word more from people out of that location compared to the West Michigan office I am in.

I can see it in a Roast like that, but it has no place in business.

 

[someguy]

It's only vulgar if you chose for it to be. It is just a series of sounds as well as the combind understanding of the person delivering these sounds andd those perciving them. Under a fair number of curcmstances I'll say somethings that could be vulgar however the people around me us the same language. As such, it is just normal language.

 

[heretic888]

We all can choose to be as nice or as nasty as we want to be.

Yeah, but the really funny thing is that whether or not you choose to say certain words has absolutely nothing to do with that.

I mean, I really shouldn't be suprised. I've learned enough from the social sciences to know that moralizing completely arbitrary social conventions is an exceedingly common practice in human history. I mean, it's pretty easy to rationalize existing social norms (i.e., what words you can say or what fork you can use to eat your salad) when you claim they are a matter of "moral decency".

What suprises me, though, is that it still persists in our supposedly "educated" and "enlightened" republics to this day.

Go figure.

 

[heretic888]

I'm not sure that there's more or less "vulgarity" in society, but I do think that social decay is on the increase. . .

With all due respect, this perception is due in large part to romantization of a past time that never existed in the first place.

Most of this eulogizing of the past, for example, conveniently ignores things like violent assaults on homosexuals (with little or no legal repercussions), "separate but equal" institutions, women being barred from attending college, the nuclear paranoia of the Cold War era, and a host of other nasties the past came with.

Then, of course, there were things like pedophilia and rape being just as present in previous decades as they were today, but those were just the things you didn't talk about. Apparently, because it was "vulgar" to do so.

Again, go figure.

 

[Kensai]

With all due respect, this perception is due in large part to romantization of a past time that never existed in the first place.

Most of this eulogizing of the past, for example, conveniently ignores things like violent assaults on homosexuals (with little or no legal repercussions), "separate but equal" institutions, women being barred from attending college, the nuclear paranoia of the Cold War era, and a host of other nasties the past came with.

Then, of course, there were things like pedophilia and rape being just as present in previous decades as they were today, but those were just the things you didn't talk about. Apparently, because it was "vulgar" to do so.

Again, go figure.

On the contrary, I base my opinion SOLELY on what I observe around me. There is a distinct difference. I live in what's referred to as a "Council estate" in the UK. The very poorest elements of society. It is distinctly possible to observe the behaviour of those around you and form an opinion based on that. My partner and I have had no trouble for many years, then, in the last 12-18 months, we've had our car scratched, our front wall smashed in, and our front window put through.

I'm not eulogising the past, nor am I saying that there has been a "golden age", but I HAVE noticed levels of acceptable, or rather "un"acceptable behaviour becoming more and more "acceptable". 10 years ago, there simply wasn't the level of petty crime, or random violence, and people were still shocked when a child was murdered. We've inherited compensation culture, "it's not my responsibility" culture, bling culture, TV and Mcdonalds culture from the US. I think it's high time we start safeguarding our own indigenous culture much like the French are trying to do, before it's lost forever, and we become nothing more than a satelite state of the US.

It (being social decay) IS happening, it's plain to see if you go beyond statistics and studies and news reports. Go look for yourself. It's there. That's what my opinion is based on. Not popular media or letters to the editor. From what I see, and how I feel.

 

[qizmoduis]

Our society has been decaying for millenia. I wish it would hurry up and get it over with. I need to clean out the fridge.

 

[Monadnock]

On the contrary, I base my opinion SOLELY on what I observe around me. There is a distinct difference. I live in what's referred to as a "Council estate" in the UK. The very poorest elements of society. It is distinctly possible to observe the behaviour of those around you and form an opinion based on that. My partner and I have had no trouble for many years, then, in the last 12-18 months, we've had our car scratched, our front wall smashed in, and our front window put through.

I'm not eulogising the past, nor am I saying that there has been a "golden age", but I HAVE noticed levels of acceptable, or rather "un"acceptable behaviour becoming more and more "acceptable". 10 years ago, there simply wasn't the level of petty crime, or random violence, and people were still shocked when a child was murdered. We've inherited compensation culture, "it's not my responsibility" culture, bling culture, TV and Mcdonalds culture from the US. I think it's high time we start safeguarding our own indigenous culture much like the French are trying to do, before it's lost forever, and we become nothing more than a satelite state of the US.

It (being social decay) IS happening, it's plain to see if you go beyond statistics and studies and news reports. Go look for yourself. It's there. That's what my opinion is based on. Not popular media or letters to the editor. From what I see, and how I feel.

I agree... Just look at how the size of women's bathing suits has changed over the past century. Look at the central theme of just about every TV commercial you watch. Just what IS selling these products? This is what's drilled into people's heads everywhere they turn and in a society of "one-up-manship", well, the rest isn't too hard to tell.

 

[heretic888]

It (being social decay) IS happening, it's plain to see if you go beyond statistics and studies and news reports. Go look for yourself. It's there. That's what my opinion is based on. Not popular media or letters to the editor. From what I see, and how I feel.

I cannot comment on what is happening in the U.K., as I have never been there....

However, based on what has been going on in the United States, I would have to say that most (but by no means not all) of this talk about "social decay" is a smokescreen, a mass bemoaning of rather superficial and, to be perfectly blunt, irrelevant features in society (i.e., fashion changes, entertainment gratuity, changes in music stylisms, and so on). It is, as I said before, a case of one generation carrying the age-old delusion of moralizing the arbitrary norms that have been inculcated into them (and correlatively demonizing those social practices that do not fit into the generational box they have erected in their minds).

Trust me, guys, this "debate" is going to happen again in about 20 or 30 years, and it's going to be the exact same things said over and over again. I remain unsurprised.

What is rather alarming, though, is those that make a big fuss about "social decay" have such a short memory. They forget that not so long ago, persons of a different skin color could not vote, women could not attend college, violent assaults on homosexuals went unpunished, one could be barred from public office if one did not subscribe to certain religious ideologies, and there was virtually nothing like social security or welfare to at least try to help the unfortunate in society.

If you call that "social decay", brother, then I'm all for it. And I hope it continues for a long time to come.

Laterz.

 

[Kacey]

Trust me, guys, this "debate" is going to happen again in about 20 or 30 years, and it's going to be the exact same things said over and over again. I remain unsurprised.

Actually, it's been going on a lot longer than 20 or 30 years... this quote shows up in lots of places, and there are questions as to whether it was originally Socrates or Plato - but the point remains, that it's been going on for centuries:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

What is rather alarming, though, is those that make a big fuss about "social decay" have such a short memory. They forget that not so long ago, persons of a different skin color could not vote, women could not attend college, violent assaults on homosexuals went unpunished, one could be barred from public office if one did not subscribe to certain religious ideologies, and there was virtually nothing like social security or welfare to at least try to help the unfortunate in society.

If you call that "social decay", brother, then I'm all for it. And I hope it continues for a long time to come.

Indeed.