Tamashiwara

[twendkata71]

What are your thoughts on Tamashiwara (breaking), as a way to test one's strength and mental control?
We do it from time to time during demonstrations and in the dojo.
It is not a regular thing though. Let me know what you all think about this practice.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I am with you on it, here and there in the dojo and for demos. I think that the size of the board, placement of the board, and the condition of the board makes a huge difference. I personally don't use multiple stacks of wood anymore 2 - 3 at the most because wood has so much bounce. If I demonstrate power breaking I use a 2in patio block that is dry and place the metro yellow pages on top of it. Makes it harder to break but still provides a little margin of safety.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Breaking is nice for demos and to show a student they can break something but I don't like to do it myslef

 

[Hand Sword]

I never liked it. I think training should be about achieving proper technique consistently, as opposed to strength. Trying to develop that, will prove proper mental control has been achieved, imo.

 

[twendkata71]

Some styles like Kyokushinkai put a lot of emphasis on breaking. We do it occationally. Mind over matter,etc. Once many years ago my teacher broke 12 concrete blocks,no spacers, with a shuto strike. I thought that was impressive. I do not think that I would try that.
I agree that karate is more about good technique and accuracy, not just brut strength. thanks for the response.

 

[WyldFya]

Karate should be about technique above all else. However breaking isn't strength at all. To break boards it takes technique. Try breaking one board, here is the twist though... Take the board and toss it in the air, then punch it... Can you do it? Try stacking 3 boards, and while moving very fast, stop you strike early, so to only break the center board, and leave the top and bottom together. Breaking a board is nothing, breaking a patio block is nothing... find ways to use it to challenge yourself, and your students. Try breaking 2 boards with a 1" punch, then try 3, and 4 and 5. Not too easy, trust me. Anyone here able to break using a nukete (without breaking your fingers)?

 

[searcher]

I always try to do it for demos and sometimes for testing. I start my students with boards that I cook in the oven overnight. The cooking makes the resin harden the board. Once they are up to 4 boards with no spacers I move them to pavers. I dry the pavers prior to their breaking. I let them progress at a slow rate with lots of makiwara training to supplement/condition. I want all of my students to at least be able to do speed breaks. If they want to make breaking a regular part of their martial walk I will show them how to power break and I give them other training items. I do, however, leave it up to them.

 

[Hand Sword]

I do find that sort of thing impressive, and entertaining. However, i still feel, overall, that practicing that stuff, and training/doing those things is for building up one's ego. Though impressive to watch, it has no place in the arts IMO.

 

[WyldFya]

I do feel that practicing breaking for demonstrations is needed, but that it is not an ego builder, but rather a confidence builder. Especially for styles that are no contact this is important that they practice this. Personally I think that the breaking embodies the application of our techniques.

 

[Hand Sword]

Why are demonstrations needed? It's supposed to be about self defense, which means, keep it quiet 'til needed. They would condition themselves on those things because it's all that they had. If your doing it thinking in terms of demonstrations, then you're marketing yourself, school, style etc.. Or you're competing against another, which leads to making it more extravagant, flashy, eye popping, etc.. The arts were not supposed to be about that. What embodies the technique is the ability to masterfully apply it, the way it was meant to be applied, when it really counts. I've seen kids, and untrained people break boards etc.. are they embodying the arts? No. Anybody can smash through something, but, can they apply the techniques on an opponent good enough. I'd rather do that, than beat up on pieces of wood.

 

[Cirdan]

Good for demonstration and building confidence I guess. A waste of time, nerve endings and manual dexterity in the long run. IMHO of course.

 

[WyldFya]

Why are demonstrations needed? It's supposed to be about self defense, which means, keep it quiet 'til needed. They would condition themselves on those things because it's all that they had. If your doing it thinking in terms of demonstrations, then you're marketing yourself, school, style etc.. Or you're competing against another, which leads to making it more extravagant, flashy, eye popping, etc.. The arts were not supposed to be about that. What embodies the technique is the ability to masterfully apply it, the way it was meant to be applied, when it really counts. I've seen kids, and untrained people break boards etc.. are they embodying the arts? No. Anybody can smash through something, but, can they apply the techniques on an opponent good enough. I'd rather do that, than beat up on pieces of wood.

Demonstrations are important for spreading the word about your school. Without students there can be no martial art, nor school. As I said earlier, can you break through multiple boards with a 1" punch? Can you break a board using nukete? Hows about the speed breaks? These aren't really used in demos often, but are amazing ways to train your body for certain attacks. Can you control yourself enough to break only what you intend, and not just go through 7 boards with a shuto? A person can act, and make a strike look better than it is. A board cannot. I practice breaking for my technique. I don't compete in tournaments for it, I don't break very often in demonstrations, although students do. I use boards to learn that I am doing more advanced techniques properly. Try taking a board some time and tossing it in the air and breaking it. I think everyone will agree that this has nothing to do with power, if you hit it really hard, but lacking in speed the board will just fly across the room. As with all aspects of martial arts, breaking has its levels of effectiveness. When you begin learning, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, you train for years, only to come back to learning how to punch and kick again, but now you are learning how to do them more effectively.

 

[searcher]

Why are demonstrations needed? It's supposed to be about self defense, which means, keep it quiet 'til needed.

True, but you should see the enrollment that happens after a good demonstration. Now most don't stick around, but it is worth to get the ones that do.

 

[Robert Lee]

I we could do that kind of damage in 1 strike on a person breaking would be a very needed tool. But we can not. Breaking shows focus, And attracts people . But is not a needed training area. I used to love doing different breaks Thought great i could do this. hitting people is much more different they are not held in place they are not hard like blocks or wood And they move and hit back. So training to really use what you do aginst an alive opponet Is much more needed then breaks. But I will say people like not only seeing breaks but they like being able to do those breaks So its part of what is now sport of The M/A groups. And people like to compete in sports.

 

[Hand Sword]

Demonstrations are important for spreading the word about your school. Without students there can be no martial art, nor school. As I said earlier, can you break through multiple boards with a 1" punch? Can you break a board using nukete? Hows about the speed breaks? These aren't really used in demos often, but are amazing ways to train your body for certain attacks. Can you control yourself enough to break only what you intend, and not just go through 7 boards with a shuto? A person can act, and make a strike look better than it is. A board cannot. I practice breaking for my technique.

Thank you for proving the assumptions in my posts.

 

[Hand Sword]

True, but you should see the enrollment that happens after a good demonstration. Now most don't stick around, but it is worth to get the ones that do.

True, I never disagreed about this. I simply said that IMHO, I don't care for the commercial aspect. Demos, for me, are exactly what I described in my previous posts.

 

[Hand Sword]

I think we are getting off topic here. The post has nothing to do with What ones prowess is when it comes to breaking, or the commercial gains a school owner receives.

The questions were asked about strength and mental focus, and if breaking helps in this.

To the question I will say that strength, and mental focus are aquired, but, imho, the wrong kind. For me, it's about self defense, so, on that theme, breaking skills aquired give a false sense. Boards, or, what ever, don't defend, don't move, and don't hit back. Since karate skills are trained to deal with these attributes, you wont develop them for this, unless you spend time trying. Beating up inanimate objects means nothing. You have all the time to focus, gauge, etc.. In real life you don't. You can throw up a board, jump, backflip, kick and break, but, can you do it on an opponent? Probably not. IMHO spend time developing the true attributes needed.

 

[twendkata71]

Thanks to all for the response. I have known people who have done breaking for years and no nerve damage. On the other hand I have seen black belts do breaking that obviously did not know what they were doing and broke their hands.
When I was in Matsubayashi Shorin ryu, breaking was required for higher dan testing. I know it is required by many Taekwondo styles for testing.
For many it impresses onlookers enough to come in the dojo door. What the sensei does when they come in decides weither or not they will stay.

 

[Shotochem]

Though I do not break often (I need my hands for work), I can see the mental benefit of it. You learn focus, intent, penetration and follow through on your strikes. It's a very big confidence builder and useful tool for the beginner and intermediate MA.

It's also fun and gives excellent stress relief and the instant gratification of just breaking something.

 

[twendkata71]

As far as hand conditioning goes for breaking, its mostly about makiwara training. Visualization is a big factor in breaking, especially if you are doing some serious breaking, bricks without spacers. Things I would not try is the breaking glass, I was a demo with Demura Fumio kyoshi where he broke glass and bottles. amazing.