Tae-Kwon-Do versus Knife

[Mannie]

Can Tae Kwon Do affectively defend against a knife attack utilizing authentic Tae Kwon Do techniques?
Is there a history of Tae kwon Do applying and defending against an edge weapon attack?
Most martial arts systems say that the answer is no.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Do you mean most Martial Arts system say that *they* can't or that Taekwondo can't?

Other that that...why not? A knife is held at the end of the hand. Like a fist, the knife can be moved in certain angles and arcs to strike the target. If a style has moves designed to block a punch(be it hook, jab, overhand, etc..) without getting hit, it can block a knife. The biggest qualifier to that is that your margin for error is a lot smaller because if you don't stop the attack completely you could get stabbed or cut. So that can affect how you move because after the block you want the hand/knife pointing somewhere other than toward yourself.

The folllow up is the key. If you just want to block, block, block then eventually you will get cut. So once you have blocked the initial attack, you'll want to get the knife out of the attackers hand, and quickly. Taekwondo has enough hand and arm strikes to inflict serious damage to an attackers limb, possibly breaking it, to make the knife unuseable either through dropping it or disabling the arm from working.

 

[bignick]

If a style has moves designed to block a punch(be it hook, jab, overhand, etc..) without getting hit, it can block a knife. The biggest qualifier to that is that your margin for error is a lot smaller because if you don't stop the attack completely you could get stabbed or cut.

Your margin of error is nonexistant...and you probably will get stabbed or cut. I highly recommend people chalking up some training knives and making sure that they aren't overconfident in their ability to defend against a knife attack.

 

[arnisador]

A knife is held at the end of the hand. Like a fist, the knife can be moved in certain angles and arcs to strike the target. If a style has moves designed to block a punch(be it hook, jab, overhand, etc..) without getting hit, it can block a knife.

It's a lot more complicated than that. The knife cuts when it touches, and it can move in ways that would be ineffective as punches. It's like having to spar someone in a such a way that they never touch you with their right hand--ever, anywhere. If I throw a hooking strike, for example, and you put a hand up to block, I'll just cut the arm instead--either by shortening my strike on the fly, or by cutting as I retract the arm.

A knife is a very dangerous weapon, and it's more different from empty-hand than many people realize.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's a lot more complicated than that. The knife cuts when it touches, and it can move in ways that would be ineffective as punches. It's like having to spar someone in a such a way that they never touch you with their right hand--ever, anywhere. If I throw a hooking strike, for example, and you put a hand up to block, I'll just cut the arm instead--either by shortening my strike on the fly, or by cutting as I retract the arm.

A knife is a very dangerous weapon, and it's more different from empty-hand than many people realize.

Yeah, I've always had this sneaking suspicion. This is why I eliminated almost all of the knife defenses that I knew from Kenpo. I just didn't trust them. I figured not training it at all (at least until I learn something else) is better than training something that is rediculous and only gives a false sense of security. At least I recognize where I stand, and I don't fool myself about it. I'll put more trust in my running ability.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm sorry, I ws being overly simplistic for sake of example. Basically I was thinking that what I've seen taught is at least straghtforward in principle: You evade the strike, you control the strike, you stop the knife striking again. I don't see where there are not the tools withing'traditional taekwondo' to do that *if* one puts the time into practicing it realistically

 

[Miles]

I hink TKD can be effective against a knife, but I also like how Pekiti Tirsia kali deals with knife attacks. I've had my class recently do PT tapping drills as they teach good hand-eye coordination and sensitivity to the attacker's movement.

Miles

 

[Gemini]

I think the techniques we've learned are as sound as any other art's, but I've never tried them in a real situation, so take that as opinion only. I mean, a non combatant partner holding a fake knife isn't really going to get your adrenalim pumping or validate your ability, but that's not the techniques fault. At the same time, it would not be to my liking to find myself unarmed against a knife wielding attacher, regardless of what I knew or how well I knew it. The odds aren't going to be in your favor.

 

[arnisador]

I hink TKD can be effective against a knife, but I also like how Pekiti Tirsia kali deals with knife attacks.

I imagine someone trained in most arts would be able to make use of their technqiues in such a situation--if they understood the true nature of the threat. Most just don't "get" how the knife moves. It's that proper understanding of the weapon that's the big issue. Once you get that, you can start adapting. I do agree that the FMAs often bring those skills out more explicitly than many other arts do, but most arts have applicable techniques.

A skilled knifer has a huge advantage though. Controlling a punching arm is one thing--now try to control it in such a way that the hand can never touch you (or get within the 4"+ length of a blade coming out of that hand). It's harder than it looks! The knife is a tough weapon to have to defend against. It's very unforgiving, and if your opponent is prepared to take a (empty-hand) shot to give a (knife) shot...well, that's a hard game to win at if you're the one without a weapon.

 

[terryl965]

Of course TKD can be effective against a knife, just the other day I dropped it in the kitchen while caving a chicken and I was able to defect to the floor!!:boing2: :uhyeah:
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

Hi Terry

This question is for you and other long time TKDers. Do you have set knife defenses that you teach? Where did your knife defenses come from? How comfortable are you with these...as if would you trust them with your life?

upnorthkyosa

 

[terryl965]

Hi Terry

This question is for you and other long time TKDers. Do you have set knife defenses that you teach? Where did your knife defenses come from? How comfortable are you with these...as if would you trust them with your life?

upnorthkyosa

Yes we do have set knife defense, they came from my instructor, instructor. When I was a high school teacher in LA back in the eighties I had to dis-arm a student that had a knife. Would I bet my life on it, kinda of sorta already did.
But to seriously answer your question now adays I would walk away, about the only time I would try to defend is if my life or my family life depended on it. And yes I' confident enough that I could be effective against mos knife attacks. Not saying I'm all in mighty and I have a close mind to learn more, there are some very interesting people here on MT and at the meet and greet I'm sure I can learn some new stuff from these people.
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

Yes we do have set knife defense, they came from my instructor, instructor. When I was a high school teacher in LA back in the eighties I had to dis-arm a student that had a knife. Would I bet my life on it, kinda of sorta already did.

But to seriously answer your question now adays I would walk away, about the only time I would try to defend is if my life or my family life depended on it. And yes I' confident enough that I could be effective against mos knife attacks. Not saying I'm all in mighty and I have a close mind to learn more, there are some very interesting people here on MT and at the meet and greet I'm sure I can learn some new stuff from these people.
Terry

Thanks for you reply, Terry. I have another question. Do you know where your teacher's teacher learned the knife defenses that you practice? I'm very curious about the lineage of these things.

I wish I could go to the meet and greet, but it just won't be possible this year. Maybe next year...

 

[Brad Dunne]

I must first offer a minor clarification as to self defense visa vie TKD. Most TKD schools found today are of the sport breed. If self defense is taught, it is in passing and most likely severly watered down. Why you ask? Good question......The answer is that these instructors where either never taught or found that real self defense dosen't bring in the money, so they forgot what should have been taught.

As for the lineage from the schools that do teach RSD (real self defense), that comes from 2 venues. First, the pre TKD Karate training that was in Korea and 2nd from Hapkido, which just about every Korean instructor that came to America in the late 60's and 70's, had some background in. Many, if not all, of what we care to call "Old School" TKD dojangs where fully vested in doing breakfalls, takedowns, joint locks and throws, along with the hard core pound and pummel.

As for knife defense's on there own, there are ways to defend against by just using common sense and this also was taught. Example: loose change in your pocket. Take said change from pocket and throw it in the attackers face and deliver a blow of choice immediately to attackers body. Personally I prefer to wreck the knee and then vanish like a ninja. :uhyeah:

Que passo meet and great?????

 

[tsdclaflin]

What choice do you have? If your life was threatened and there was no way to escape, you will find out.

In Tang Soo Do, we learned some knife defenses but our instructor cautioned us against using them. If necessary, I would try. I don't know where he learned them. Fortunately, I never had to defend myself against a knife and I hope to never have to.

Practice and practice hard. "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best!"

 

[terryl965]

Thanks for you reply, Terry. I have another question. Do you know where your teacher's teacher learned the knife defenses that you practice? I'm very curious about the lineage of these things.

I wish I could go to the meet and greet, but it just won't be possible this year. Maybe next year...

Yes his instructor was from Okinawa based karate and then I also learned from my father Master drill instructor USMC.
Terry

PS as for TKD never had a knife defense it was all Hapkido well I know some personal Instructors that would argue that point and also MR. Dune Trditional tkd has all the upove mentions plus more and all Sport TKD schools just do sport the actually have RSD as you call it.
Terry

 

[Brad Dunne]

PS as for TKD never had a knife defense it was all Hapkido well I know some personal Instructors that would argue that point and also MR. Dune Trditional tkd has all the upove mentions plus more and all Sport TKD schools just do sport the actually have RSD as you call it.
Terry

Perhaps my post was misunderstood. I did reference that both Hapkido and Karate had their influences on pre sport TKD. Now also IMO, the vast majority of sport TKD training sorely lacks an honest commitment to factual/realistic self defense applications. Contrary to what a lot of folks think, the old addage of "you fight like you train" holds true. Now that's not to say that the above average sport TKD practicioner won't be able to pull something off because of his/her training, but it would be due primarily to their athletic abilities.

 

[Mannie]

As most of you have stated, Tae Kwon Do doesnt have an edge weapon curriculum or if it does its one that the instructor is unsure of its confidence in using it in a self preservation situation.
I find this strange as Tae Kwon Do is a Self-Defense system promoting self-defense but turns a blind eye to one of the most used, feared and on the increase weapons of choice for attacks in past, present and future times.

 

[kwang gae]

If you want to know if your knife defense training is any good, (without getting cut that is), practice it with a red marker instead of a knife.

You may be surprised how many places you end up getting knicked.

 

[Miles]

This question is for you and other long time TKDers. Do you have set knife defenses that you teach? Where did your knife defenses come from? How comfortable are you with these...as if would you trust them with your life?

upnorthkyosa

I guess I've been around a long time...my wife tells me so.

Yes, I have set knife defenses against a stab: ice-pick grip and thrust and slashes-diagonal and horizontal. These came from my original instructor and I don't know what actual experience, if any, he had. I think that I could make them work-I would have no choice if I could not avoid the conflict.

Miles