Students of today

[terryl965]

In your views do they students of today have the intelligent and the respect to become true Master and ambassador of out beloved Art of Tae Kwon Do.

I see so many young student stay long enough to get to BB and then run and open a school or jump a cross town to train with somebody else and in the older days they where pretty much loyal to there teaching and there instructors.

How will this effect Tae Kwon Do in twenty years are we going to be out of true Masters of the Art? Maybe just maybe we have enough the spend like a wild flower and blossum into a whole new side of TKD. Who really knows but one thing is for sure in my old and tired eye's the Art has forever changed and the sport has become the norm now a days.

Thank you all

 

[newGuy12]

In your views do they students of today have the intelligent and the respect to become true Master and ambassador of out beloved Art of Tae Kwon Do.

That depends on what you call a true master, doesn't it? Who today would train on a floor that had ice on it? Not too many.

Many people today would quit if they got kicked too hard, Hahahaha!

There will be teachers who can pass on TaeKwonDo, up to a point. How many will be The Real Thing®, who can end a fight with any kick they choose to use, high or low, one shot? There will be a FEW. (I won't be one of them, but I will still practice!).



Regards,

Robert

 

[terryl965]

That depends on what you call a true master, doesn't it? Who today would train on a floor that had ice on it? Not too many.

Many people today would quit if they got kicked too hard, Hahahaha!

There will be teachers who can pass on TaeKwonDo, up to a point. How many will be The Real Thing®, who can end a fight with any kick they choose to use, high or low, one shot? There will be a FEW. (I won't be one of them, but I will still practice!).



Regards,

Robert

Robert I agree who is to say but it still would be nice to know that some still do exsist. I know I train my whole family and I pray every night that they do not forget the true meaning of what I teach but reality is out of three son's two of them will leave the art for greened pastures and they have growwn up in it.

I agre I will never be one of those that you describe but I will be one of those that will never give up or give in.
Terry

 

[newGuy12]

When I think of "True Master", I think of a VERY SPECIAL person. There will not be so many of these in the future, the kind of which we may be used to.

We all know the big names:
Pugil Gwon
Hee Il Cho

How many people today are TRAINING like these men did??? Not too many!

You as an Instructor, you benefit many people. You may have NO students which go on to become teachers. This is something that you (and I) have really very little control over. You just do your job, and let the chips fall where they may!

Likewise, I am not a teacher, but, as a senior student, I have responsibility to the junior students, the new students. They may not wish to bother the Master Instructor. That's okay, because I may be able to be of help sometimes myself. I must also make a good example, especially for younger people. That is my job.

So, I also try to do my part, you see.

Surely there will be good teachers. You know, I was reading a post on this board just the other day, where user 'exile' made mention of the RoK soldiers, the White Tigers in the Vietnam conflict.

They probably trained differently that we do today. I think its safe to assume that! HAHAHA!

Conditions may be sometime in the future such that people again throw themselves into VERY ARDUOUS training. Nobody cares if they get hurt a little! No crying, no whining! This is not an easy path!!!

Things come an go, you know. Nowadays, students wish to experiment and experience different Martial Arts, too, not just TKD. What can one do? It is the nature of the times that we live in!

TKD will continue into the future! It will.





Regards,

Robert

 

[HelloKitty]

I see so many young student stay long enough to get to BB and then run and open a school or jump a cross town to train with somebody else and in the older days they where pretty much loyal to there teaching and there instructors.

Hm... I must say it's so difficult to find good MA instructor and academy, at least here in the US. I've been able to see quite a number of schools and I understand several instructors leave the "severe martial spirit" to make the classes "in the american way", to integrate the family or other reasons. Those may be good intentions, but these places finally do anything but martial arts. We have to consider, besides, the large amount of belt factories only worried about the money. Today people don't have to choose only the style of martial arts they prefer, but to avoid bad schools, and it's very possible they get confuse and leave good masters in their effort to find the best.

 

[terryl965]

Hm... I must say it's so difficult to find good MA instructor and academy, at least here in the US. I've been able to see quite a number of schools and I understand several instructors leave the "severe martial spirit" to make the classes "in the american way", to integrate the family or other reasons. Those may be good intentions, but these places finally do anything but martial arts. We have to consider, besides, the large amount of belt factories only worried about the money. Today people don't have to choose only the style of martial arts they prefer, but to avoid bad schools, and it's very possible they get confuse and leave good masters in their effort to find the best.

This is so true ego's and money is the very thing that is killing all Martial Arts.

 

[Kacey]

On the one hand, I understand what you're saying - on the other hand, how many people who learned martial arts in the past became Masters either? Especially in the ITF, where Master Instructor rank is not attained until VII Dan, so it takes much longer? I can remember when GM Sereff was the only non-Asian Master in the ITF, the only Master at all in the USTF - and it wasn't that long ago; I was at his promotion to VII Dan, when I was an I Dan.

I've often heard a statistic that I can neither confirm nor deny: that in general, across a very large sample (multiple organizations), out of each 100 students, only 1 will make it to black belt - for each level of black belt above that, similar proportions apply, to a steadily decreasing group.

Nonetheless, in the last several decades, the number of Masters that I know - and respect as Masters - has grown enormously. When GM Lang was promoted last spring, over 15 Masters (VII Dan or higher) - all of them highly respected, which is why he chose to invite them - came to his promotion.

So... do I think that belt factories and uncommitted students are a problem? Yes. But like any other activity, the chaff will shake out and those truly deserving will remain, and carry on for the generation that preceded them.

 

[HelloKitty]

I really prefer something like getting your master/instructor degree/licence when you have more experience as a black belt. Because of the belt factories I've seen really bad black belts and they are even doing classes to lower students.

In my last school (I changed to a new one two weeks ago) you signed a contract and it said you'd get a black belt after three years if you just go to the classes. So, what kind of black belt are you going to be? I decided to quit when I, just a yellow belt, won easily a sparring with a high blue belt (blue with red strip). Do you see what I'm pointing here?

 

[IcemanSK]

On the one hand, I understand what you're saying - on the other hand, how many people who learned martial arts in the past became Masters either? Especially in the ITF, where Master Instructor rank is not attained until VII Dan, so it takes much longer? I can remember when GM Sereff was the only non-Asian Master in the ITF, the only Master at all in the USTF - and it wasn't that long ago; I was at his promotion to VII Dan, when I was an I Dan.

I've often heard a statistic that I can neither confirm nor deny: that in general, across a very large sample (multiple organizations), out of each 100 students, only 1 will make it to black belt - for each level of black belt above that, similar proportions apply, to a steadily decreasing group.

Nonetheless, in the last several decades, the number of Masters that I know - and respect as Masters - has grown enormously. When GM Lang was promoted last spring, over 15 Masters (VII Dan or higher) - all of them highly respected, which is why he chose to invite them - came to his promotion.

So... do I think that belt factories and uncommitted students are a problem? Yes. But like any other activity, the chaff will shake out and those truly deserving will remain, and carry on for the generation that preceded them.

I have to agree with you, Kacey. In WTF circles, there certainly are more masters than in ITF style because master in the WTF/Kukkiwon is at 4th Dan (I say that for those who may not know). Therefore, there are a lot more younger folks who are called master in WTF/KKW circles. Yet many of these 25 year old masters aren't respected among the older masters simply because they are kids in their eyes. I don't mean all of them by any means. But 25 year old "Master X" acting like a frat boy is going to be treated like one by the older masters at the tournament. Time takes care of much of this.

I'm in an odd position when it comes to rank, age & time in the Art. With 25 years experience in TKD, yet only a 3rd Dan, I'm treated better than some younger folks with higher rank, somedays. I know a young master in his 20's who seeks me out at functions & calls me sir. I was also recently re-aquainted with a man who was a high school senior 3rd Dan when I was a 14 year old white belt. We hadn't spoken in more than 20 years until last week. He is now an 8th Dan. While I called him "sir," he wished I was less formal because he saw us as high school kids together.


Sadly, the USA has gotten used to us goofy folks in our pj's screaming & kicking each as being as common as little league to appreciate the strict discipline & "good ole days" workouts. And I've seen the bouncy 9 year old fresh from karate class at the grocery store with her badly tied brown belt who doesn't have any idea how need an experience her art can be. But I only can do what I can do with the students I have. Somedays, I wonder if anything I do is getting thru to the Playstationed minds of these kids. But on Wednesday at the doctors office, a man who I didn't recognize sat next to me. He was glad to see me & said "hello" warmly. When the look on my face told him I didn't recognize him he said he's the father of one of my students. (I've only met him once) He went on & on about how being in my class has given his son a great deal of focus & discipline. That conversation made up for many of the kids who have taken 2 classes & disappear.


Terry, you are a man who has accomplished great success & honorable positions in two arts in your lifetime. Few appreciate that the way they should. You have impacted many students in positive ways. And you will continue to do so. Without sounding too much like Master Po, all you can do is teach. What students choose to do with it is up to them.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

In a similar case, one of my Master's first black belts has gotten back in with our organization and will soon be testing for his next level of black belt. I outrank him officially, as I am a 2nd Dan (soon to test for my third), and he is 'only' a 1st Dan, though truth be told, he has been a 1st Dan for the past 25 years. The man has been a 1st degree black belt almost as long as I have been alive. When he visits my school, I give him nearly the same respect I do to my own instructor and and his Master since he has been training so long. He appreciates it, but gives me the respect due my rank, so it all works out really well. The fact of the matter is that as long as people are training hard, learning, bettering themselves and the art, there will be Masters.

 

[rmclain]

Hi Terry,

Many people will benefit, but not everyone will continue for a lifetime. I've seen so many good technical martial artists disappear over the years. I can't imagine spending the 20+ years in training and it not being a permanent part of life. But, each person must find their own path.

This is why it is important to teach many people the art, so that there will be many seeds planted that could blossom and continue for the next generation.

One of the best Kongsoo-do instructors out of Korea (known by the older generation - Hee Il Cho's generation and older) was Hong Jong-pyo. Does anyone here recognize his name? Of course not. He had the thought that he must teach only one person and pass along the full knowledge to that one protoge'. Well, that protoge' was passed all of Master Hong's knowledge, then became a busy lawyer and businessman through his formal education. He (the protoge') doesn't practice or teach martial art at all anymore. So, Master Hong Jong-pyo's lineage is mostly lost. Master Hong later admitted that his way wasn't a good way to preserve what he had learned and wanted to pass along.

Master Hong is still alive and living in Seoul, but he's not teaching anymore due to age and health trouble. He's in his 70's now. For historical info, Master Hong actually founded Kangduk-Won in 1956, but turned over Chief Instructor position to Master Park Chul-hee shortly thereafter.

R. McLain

Robert I agree who is to say but it still would be nice to know that some still do exsist. I know I train my whole family and I pray every night that they do not forget the true meaning of what I teach but reality is out of three son's two of them will leave the art for greened pastures and they have growwn up in it.

I agre I will never be one of those that you describe but I will be one of those that will never give up or give in.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

Hi Terry,

Many people will benefit, but not everyone will continue for a lifetime. I've seen so many good technical martial artists disappear over the years. I can't imagine spending the 20+ years in training and it not being a permanent part of life. But, each person must find their own path.

This is why it is important to teach many people the art, so that there will be many seeds planted that could blossom and continue for the next generation.

One of the best Kongsoo-do instructors out of Korea (known by the older generation - Hee Il Cho's generation and older) was Hong Jong-pyo. Does anyone here recognize his name? Of course not. He had the thought that he must teach only one person and pass along the full knowledge to that one protoge'. Well, that protoge' was passed all of Master Hong's knowledge, then became a busy lawyer and businessman through his formal education. He (the protoge') doesn't practice or teach martial art at all anymore. So, Master Hong Jong-pyo's lineage is mostly lost. Master Hong later admitted that his way wasn't a good way to preserve what he had learned and wanted to pass along.

Master Hong is still alive and living in Seoul, but he's not teaching anymore due to age and health trouble. He's in his 70's now. For historical info, Master Hong actually founded Kangduk-Won in 1956, but turned over Chief Instructor position to Master Park Chul-hee shortly thereafter.

R. McLain

Very well put Master Mc Lain as always.

 

[jim777]

We have an instructor (I only know him as Master Frasier) who comes by our school on Fridays now, who is a 4th Dan. He is 30, and started TKD when he was 5. I think he'll get way up there some day, as his love for teaching is so blatant and obvious. We're always thrilled to see him at the dojang when we get there. Great guy, outstanding man and karateka. I can easily see him get up there
So in answer to the original post, some kids are getting it, but it's always going to be 1 in 100,000 (at best) who gets up to high Dan rank.

jim

 

[searcher]

I have been searching for one student to give all my training to for several years. To date I have one that is above all others, My Wife. As far as others, I have recently found one that might have what it takes to stick it out and reach a masters level. I have a great level of faith in this kid and I, along with My Wife, are hoping that he will be the one. In this one kid, I am placing a great deal of time and effort. I was very fortunate to find this kid one day while workign at the local Y. If he does not make it, I am hoping that one of my children will.

I think many instructors search a lifetime for that one student to carry on their work and many never find that one. JMHO.

 

[DArnold]

Terry,

Three items:

1) In the orient you are not considered an adult until 40

2) Weeds grow abundantly on their own where a flower takes much care and cultivation

3) As an instructor if you can pass the light on in your heart to one student then you have had a successful career

 

[terryl965]

Terry,

Three items:

1) In the orient you are not considered an adult until 40

2) Weeds grow abundantly on their own where a flower takes much care and cultivation

3) As an instructor if you can pass the light on in your heart to one student then you have had a successful career

In this case I have been successful. Thank you Sir.