Student/Instructor contact

[Fluffy]

So, as some of you know I now own a full time commercial school. And I am finding that a good chunk of my new students are females between the age of 7 and 12, and they love taking classed from us. But what I'm finding is that they love physical contact while being instructed. Now, I'm fine with a pat on the shoulder or helping them develop a good kick by raising their legs, even a slite press on the back to help with stretches - all that is no big deal. But after class they have started to come up to me and give me a hug. At this age, I do understand they do this naturally - and it's not a big deal. But I'm uncomfortable with it.

I do know that a few of them have little teacher crushes on me, so there is this fine line here. Should I get over this and just deal with the occasional hug? Or should I nip it in the bud now?

 

[Kacey]

From a legal perspective - nip it in the bud now. If you don't want to do that - never be alone with one or more of these girls; always have another adult around as a witness. It's a sad, scary, litigous world - you need to cover your ***.

 

[Ceicei]

I think you know the difference between a "gratitude" hug and a "affectionate/crush" hug. There are different ways of making contact. Kids do need physical contact and naturally are expressive (especially the younger ones), but we do need to be aware of how society perceives these kinds of contact. This is the main issue: Perception.

I see no problem with hugs or pats on the back after a well done test, for example. Perhaps a challenging segment where one struggled and finally made it, or an especially terrific and fun class. A very sad or discouraged kid may appreciate a hug or a pat on the back at times to feel that things are alright and keep going. A lot will depend upon the ages of the children and the intent of physical contact, as well as the reaction of parents.

However, if you are feeling uncomfortable and you know the intent is different, perhaps coming too frequently (such as the timing and location of when they occur), then you might want to put a stop to some of them.

When you're unsure, its better not to and avoid the problems that could happen. Focus more upon verbal praises.

- Ceicei

 

[Carol]

I don't think you should ever be alone with the girls regardless of whether they hug you or not. Fluffy IIRC in another thread you mentioned that you teach a lot of kids.

"Appearance of Impropriety" can ruin a career forever even if no lawsuit was filed and no inappropriate contact took place.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I am forever drawing lines on my students with my fingers to show correct positioning of arms, legs,and the body, but that is as far as it ever goes.

Before and after class there are usually handshakes.

I agree, in this day and age you have to be careful so as to not let yourself be open to any charges of misconduct. Sad but true. The fear of litigation is sucking the life out of the world.

 

[shesulsa]

Personally, I think it's a good idea to have a chat with these girls and discuss this kind of behavior and how it's been safe with you, yet it makes you feel uncomfortable ... and tell them why. They should be discouraged from hugging *any* teacher and they should learn why. Reassure them and maybe give them High Fives instead of hugs - and that's probably where the physical contact should end.

As Carol said, perception is a huge part of social awareness and I hope their training includes how to read people and their body language.

In a nutshell, I think you should nip it in the bud. Have a meeting with these girls and a parent or two, but address the girls, then let them go have some fun and games and let the parents ask you some questions.

Just my .02. :asian:

 

[bignick]

A fellow instructor had a situation, I won't go into to great of detail, but there was a younger girl that would always come to class really early.

We believed that she was using the gym as an escape from a troubled home life, but it put my friend in a very tough situation. He obviously didn't want to stop her from coming to the gym. But it left her alone with him in the gym for extended amounts of times. And who knows what accusations could be thrown around.

After consulting with the head of the organization it came down to basically two options. Install video cameras or tell her she can no longer come to the gym early.

You have to cover yourself and nothing is more irrefutable about whether something was appropriate or not than a video.

 

[Fluffy]

I don't think you should ever be alone with the girls regardless of whether they hug you or not. Fluffy IIRC in another thread you mentioned that you teach a lot of kids.

"Appearance of Impropriety" can ruin a career forever even if no lawsuit was filed and no inappropriate contact took place.

I am never alown with kids. I did take the Boys Scouts Child Protection certification seminar and they went as far as locking the child in the dojang while I'm outside.....have not had to do that yet.

What I'm dealing with now is kids walking up behind me and sneaking in a hug....or just being so quick with it I don't have any time to react.

 

[Carol]

I am never alown with kids. I did take the Boys Scouts Child Protection certification seminar and they went as far as locking the child in the dojang while I'm outside.....have not had to do that yet.

What I'm dealing with now is kids walking up behind me and sneaking in a hug....or just being so quick with it I don't have any time to react.

Nothing wrong with telling them "No, I'm a teacher. How about a high five?"

 

[Ceicei]

Nothing wrong with telling them "No, I'm a teacher. How about a high five?"

This should work. Most of our male instructors at my studio say this. Be sure to let them know why you are changing to another approach. They need to understand that with today's world, things are different....

-- Ceicei

 

[bushidomartialarts]

So this is my perspective on this.

The greatest harm those child molesting bastards have done is created a generation of adults who are afraid to touch children.

I know the risks, and advice my teaching staff to not consider me a role model in this. The smart thing to do is to tell the girls not to hug you.

For me (stress for me), I will not allow fear of some future litigation to make me not hug a child. I hug, high-five, pat, tousle and wrestle with my students daily. Children need physical contact. Hell, people need physical contact.

Here are my own rules:

Keep it public, always. My school is bustling most of the time, so it's not hard to be in full view.

Don't initiate physical contact. Let the child come to you for a hug. Hold up a high five, but let them make the contact.

Be aware of the vibe of the student. Some students can be hugged. Others prefer a handshake. Others (especially teen boys) will be more comfortable with a light sock on the shoulder. Know who's who and what's what.

Again: the previous advice is the smart advice. I'm in the minority and probably acting recklessly. But that's my stance.

Fear shouldn't stop us from doing what's right. After all, we're warriors, aren't we?

 

[MJS]

Nothing wrong with telling them "No, I'm a teacher. How about a high five?"

I was going to suggest the same thing!

Nothing wrong with having the students come up and high five the instructors, lining up next to them as the rest of the students follow thru, giving a high five to their classmates as well.

 

[The Kidd]

I am a contact person, I interact with kids all the time and I agree that most need that physical interaction. Don't think it always has to be a hug, alot of mine are high fives and taps on the head or shoulders. With girls always remember the old side hug, thats a must.

 

[Brother John]

a bow
a handshake
a HIGH-5

All much better.
Give them something different to do that will still reinforce the physical expression of "I accept you" or "Good Job" or "I appreciate you"....
but replace the hugs with SOMETHING.

Your Brother
John

 

[chinto01]

When helping out at my friends dojo with the kids I use the no contact rule. I will give them pats on the shoulder and high fives but WILL NOT hug them or anything else of that nature. When the occassion did occur when a hug was coming I informed the student that in the arts we bow to each other as a sign of respect. Not only did I nip the physical contact in the bud but I also feel I reinforced proper dojo respect with the student. My advice to you is when the hug is coming stop them and bow! You do not need a lawsuit for inappropriate touching.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Grenadier]

Everyone has so far given good advice. In this day and age of litigation and suspicion, even an innocent hug can be interpreted as something horrible, despite there being no malicious intents. It's a terrible shame that society has become like this, but with the alarming number of certain types of people out there, I entirely understand why parents can react in that way.

I would like to think that martial arts instructors are good examples of professional people (and for the overwhelming majority of them, they are), but even amongst our ranks, there are some bad people, indeed, and it's a shame that those isolated individuals contributed to the overall mistrust in society.

Always have another adult present in the dojo if you are conducting classes for the kids. Whether this is one of the parents, or one of the other instructors, just have someone there. If you're teaching at an elementary school, for example, have one of the teachers sit in on it, or at least check in on things.

This is where a female adult instructor can bring a measure of relief to the parents. That bit of easing the parents' minds will go a long way.

One way to solve this, while probably invoking a good chuckle out of it, can be to simply announce that there is to be no hugging in the dojo, under penalty of pushups, since you're learning combative arts. Have your most gruff instructor (the one that the students think of as the taskmaster) make this announcement.

 

[Fuzzy Foot]

What they said, you get the idea. Besides you're not comfortable with it anyway, and the world is a different place in how these things are viewed and interpreted than it was from even a few years back.

 

[HG1]

So this is my perspective on this.

The greatest harm those child molesting bastards have done is created a generation of adults who are afraid to touch children.

I know the risks, and advice my teaching staff to not consider me a role model in this. The smart thing to do is to tell the girls not to hug you.

For me (stress for me), I will not allow fear of some future litigation to make me not hug a child. I hug, high-five, pat, tousle and wrestle with my students daily. Children need physical contact. Hell, people need physical contact.

Here are my own rules:

Keep it public, always. My school is bustling most of the time, so it's not hard to be in full view.

Don't initiate physical contact. Let the child come to you for a hug. Hold up a high five, but let them make the contact.

Be aware of the vibe of the student. Some students can be hugged. Others prefer a handshake. Others (especially teen boys) will be more comfortable with a light sock on the shoulder. Know who's who and what's what.

Again: the previous advice is the smart advice. I'm in the minority and probably acting recklessly. But that's my stance.

Fear shouldn't stop us from doing what's right. After all, we're warriors, aren't we?

Well said.

 

[exile]

Every single post in this thread has nailed an important part of the truth, I believe. I'm particularly struck by Shesulsa's suggestion that you use the situation as a teaching opportunity: nip it in the bud, yes, but also explain to these girls why you're doing it and why a different kind of behavior is important for their own safety and security in the larger world. You can bet that there are going to be people out their that they're going to want to show the same affection to in a physically demonstrative way who don't have your ethical/moral scruples and concerns. And your young female students need to be aware of that.

In fact, you can couch it in terms of MA training: no matter how much you respect a training partner, you must keep your guard up—the essence of MA is comporting yourself so that your vulnerability is minimized. You're not just teaching them kicks, strikes and blocks, but self-protection—`and here is a perfect example of how to act to protect yourself, class.' That sort of thing. If you can tie it into the general MA perspective, then it will do the job, without seeming like a personal rejection, and will also help them think about establishing necessary physical boundaries in other situations as well...

 

[Infinite]

The psycological term for this is known as Transition Association.

We as adults think kids will feel weird if we change the way they operate. This is untrue they are mimics and want to know how we want them to operate.

Basically, if you say, Hey hugs are not the way we show respect and affection here. We do it with a bow and a high five.

The kids mind translates this too, "In order to make Instructor happy I bow and high five." It really kind of ends there. They don't think why doesn't he want me to touch him! Why can't I hug him if I want?

The hug him if I want is a pre-six question and the touch him is a post 12 question. The first is harmless the second indicates some sort of additional perceived intimacy.

I would post the rules on the wall and make it a more positive this is special this is what we do here.

2 cents from a rambling lunatic
Infy

P.S. Ignore my poor spelling no spell checkl here and well I have a writing disability