Shaolin Kung Fu

[british12]

Hi,

I am was previously doing Kamon Wing Chun when I had to stop cos of work....now I was planning to go back into it again but then a friend gave me a website for shaolin website (Shoalin Wahnam Scotland) and thought WOW sounds amazing.........I have previously known nothing about this martial art..........
I dont know a great deal about shaolin as this is the first time I have come across it...............whats the major differences between Shaolin Kung Fu and Kamon Wing Chun?...........its not a question about whats better just the differences and what can I expect as a beginner from Shaolin? How long it can take, etc. Whats your experiences of Shaolin.

There are classes running in Scotland that im interested in.

Your feedback will be helpfull and potentially help me decide whether to take up Shaolin Kung Fu or not.

Many thanks.

 

[almost a ghost]

Well, first off, wrong forum

I don't know the difference between Kamon Wing Chun and Ip style Wing Chun, but general Wing Chun is a stripped version of Kung Fu. So, Shaolin Kung Fu has all the flashiness and kicks that Wing Chun short cuts it's way through. As you maybe know, Wing Chun is a close range system, where with shaolin Kung Fu you'll have more long range.

Also, do you know, what kind of style of Shaolin Kung Fu it it? The name "Shaolin Kung Fu" is a generic term and isn't anymore discriptive than Japanese Karate.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yup wrong forum you probably want to post this is Chinese martial arts general.

Wing Chun is close range and a southern style.

Shaolin is not as generic as Japanese Karate you would have to say Chinese Kung fu for that.

Shaolin Kung fu supposedly is from or has its origin in the Shaolin monastery in China. It covers short range but it is generally is considered longer range than Wing Chun. Also Shaolin is based on Animal forms where Wing Chun is not.

Shaolin tends to be a very external (hard) style where I feel Wing Chun is of a more Internal/External (hard/soft) Style

Shaolin
http://www.answers.com/topic/shaolin-kung-fu-1

Wing Chun
http://www.answers.com/topic/wing-chun

Chinese Martial Arts list
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-martial-arts

 

[british12]

Yup wrong forum you probably want to post this is Chinese martial arts general.

Wing Chun is close range and a southern style.

Shaolin is not as generic as Japanese Karate you would have to say Chinese Kung fu for that.

Shaolin Kung fu supposedly is from or has its origin in the Shaolin monastery in China. It covers short range but it is generally is considered longer range than Wing Chun. Also Shaolin is based on Animal forms where Wing Chun is not.

Shaolin tends to be a very external (hard) style where I feel Wing Chun is of a more Internal/External (hard/soft) Style

Shaolin
http://www.answers.com/topic/shaolin-kung-fu-1

Wing Chun
http://www.answers.com/topic/wing-chun

Chinese Martial Arts list
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-martial-arts

You feel that Shaolin is more external...........thats interesting, I will give you a link for the Shaolin that im interested in and you can tell me its what you are referring it to. its: - http://www.shaolinwahnam.co.uk/

 

[Rook]

You feel that Shaolin is more external...........thats interesting, I will give you a link for the Shaolin that im interested in and you can tell me its what you are referring it to. its: - http://www.shaolinwahnam.co.uk/

Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

This immediately tells me you should look elsewhere. Wong Kiew Kit is not someone you want to be affiliated with. I doubt you will get much in the way of historically authentic shaolin learning from him.

 

[pete]

british12, Shaolin IS an external system, as is Wing Chun. do not confuse hard and soft, fast and slow, or linear and circular in determining an external vs internal system. there are different approaches to training, mind intent, and power generation. Xingyi is hard, fast, and linear AND
Internal, while Okinawan Karate is hard, fast, and linear, BUT external.

If your interested in either a Shaolin or Wing Chun school, you are best off visiting both and seeing for yourself which is better for you. Generally speaking, you'll be doing more forms work in Shaolin and more freestyle drills in Wing Chun, but different schools and lineages work differently, so again see for yourself what YOU feel would be the best fit for YOU.

pete

 

[british12]

Also Shaolin is based on Animal forms where Wing Chun is not.

What do you mean Animal Form?

 

[Whitebelt]

A form is (as you probably know, but better safe than sorry) a seiries af set movements; attacks and blocks, executed against one or more imaginary attckers. These are allocated to students in order for the teacher to judge the students' understanding of the moves and streingth of stance.

An Animal Form is a form (above) mimicking the attributes of a particular animal. There are sevral animals in shaoling kung fu, I think the main five are Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Monkey and Crane, each with their own hand shape.

A Monkey form tends to involve lots of looking around, keeping low and for some reason head covering.

A tiger form tends to involve lots of gripping and ripping techniques with the hands held resembling a tigers claw.

 

[kidswarrior]

There are sevral animals in shaoling kung fu, I think the main five are Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Monkey and Crane, each with their own hand shape.

I've seen various lists, and other Chinese arts can have up to twelve (XinYiQuan video from Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's website: Twelve Animal Form and its Applications. Sorry, don't have the link handy; can get it if anyone wants).

I learned the Five Animals as:

Tiger: Representing strength and courage
Dragon: Stealthy and smooth (rides the wind)
Leopard: Fast, short techniques
Crane: Graceful and good balance (some add, reach)
Snake/Cobra: Strong Chi as well as trunk strength (since no limbs)

For what it's worth.:soapbox: :uhyeah:

 

[british12]

I've seen various lists, and other Chinese arts can have up to twelve (XinYiQuan video from Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's website: Twelve Animal Form and its Applications. Sorry, don't have the link handy; can get it if anyone wants).

I learned the Five Animals as:

Tiger: Representing strength and courage
Dragon: Stealthy and smooth (rides the wind)
Leopard: Fast, short techniques
Crane: Graceful and good balance (some add, reach)
Snake/Cobra: Strong Chi as well as trunk strength (since no limbs)

For what it's worth.:soapbox: :uhyeah:

Thats really interesting to learn.................I didnt realise that was the case..........Shaolin sounds good I must say.......just by reading the descriptions.

 

[Whitebelt]

QUOTEI've seen various lists, and other Chinese arts can have up to twelve (XinYiQuan video from Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's website: Twelve Animal Form and its Applications. Sorry, don't have the link handy; can get it if anyone wants).

Thaks for the correction kidswarrior

I have also heared of "Five Animals" including Pheonix and once even Praying Manis(although I think the school was slighltly questionable).

Nice link to a list of some of the animals here.

http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/KEMPO/animals.html


You're right, I have been loving Shaolin Kungfu!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xingyi 10 Animals - older form

Bear
Eagle
Snake
Tiger
Dragon
Chicken
Horse
Swallow
Sparrow hawk or goshawk
Monkey

Xingyi 12 Animals - there are various translations of the 12 animals

Dragon
Bear
Horse
Tiger
Turtle
Snake
Monkey
Eagle
Swallow
Dove
Rooster
Falcon

But there are many animal forms within styles and there are styles that are entirely based on Animal forms

Example White crane spreads its wings is a posture in Tai Chi and there is a White Crane Kung fu style as well.

Chinese Martial Arts list
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of...e-martial-arts

 

[Yeti]

This immediately tells me you should look elsewhere. Wong Kiew Kit is not someone you want to be affiliated with. I doubt you will get much in the way of historically authentic shaolin learning from him.

Why do you say this? What is it about Wong Kiew Kit that makes him not someone to be affiliated with? Is his technique poor or is it more of a business issue with how he conducts himself? I'm honestly just curious. I've heard of him before and have read one of his books, but have not heard negative comments before.

 

[kidswarrior]

Yeti, I love your signature line!! A great reminder for kung fu and really, all of life! -kidswarrior

 

[Rook]

Why do you say this? What is it about Wong Kiew Kit that makes him not someone to be affiliated with? Is his technique poor or is it more of a business issue with how he conducts himself? I'm honestly just curious. I've heard of him before and have read one of his books, but have not heard negative comments before.

My issue with Wong is threefold.

1. He has a rather dubious lineage
2. He attacks the lineages of many shaolin teachers that also claim descent from the shaolin temple.
3. He spouts psuedo-scientific crap like this http://www.wongkk.com/general/q-a22.html

 

[Yeti]

Yeti, I love your signature line!! A great reminder for kung fu and really, all of life! -kidswarrior

Thanks!

 

[british12]

QUOTEI've seen various lists, and other Chinese arts can have up to twelve (XinYiQuan video from Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's website: Twelve Animal Form and its Applications. Sorry, don't have the link handy; can get it if anyone wants).

Thaks for the correction kidswarrior

I have also heared of "Five Animals" including Pheonix and once even Praying Manis(although I think the school was slighltly questionable).

Nice link to a list of some of the animals here.

http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/KEMPO/animals.html

You're right, I have been loving Shaolin Kungfu!

That list is very impressive.......I loved some of the descriptions there.................I wander how they would work out in a real life form?

 

[kidswarrior]

.......I loved some of the descriptions there.................I wander how they would work out in a real life form?

Maybe you could use your imagination and innovation in applying the animal concepts to existing forms, and make them truly your expressions. After all, we call what we do martial art, so I think it's OK to have fun with the art portion.

 

[clfsean]

Maybe you could use your imagination and innovation in applying the animal concepts to existing forms, and make them truly your expressions. After all, we call what we do martial art, so I think it's OK to have fun with the art portion.

Bad idea... there are specifics that define animal techniques, theories & applications. Changing a punch to a claw hand shape does not make it a "Tiger". It makes it more likely somebody's about to break a finger or more.

 

[kidswarrior]

Bad idea... there are specifics that define animal techniques, theories & applications. Changing a punch to a claw hand shape does not make it a "Tiger". It makes it more likely somebody's about to break a finger or more.

I don't recall advising changing any techniques, and especially didn't advocate using a claw hand (Tiger claw) in place of a closed fist strike. One could--and in my opinion, often should--use a palm heel strike instead of a closed fist, and might then follow with a tiger rake, or.... But this is a technique, and I was speaking of forms, for which I believe the bunkai might be endless.

If you're going to start off with 'Bad idea' in response to another poster, you might want to carefully read/think about what the proposal really is.