Seriously. Take a shower.

[Flea]

I know this has come up on MT before, I just need to vent for a bit.

I have an extremely keen and precise sense of smell. I can smell things locked away in closets from across a room. I can distinguish between species of trees as I walk past them. I'm not necessarily sensitive in the sense of approving or disapproving of different types of smells, I just pick up on a lot more nuances than most people.

I never used to mind body odor before, but since starting my new job it irks me. I work with a lot of homeless people, and people with psychosis who are just too busy fending off conspiracies to worry about soap. I'm now getting pretty well versed in different nuances of filth as well. There's armpit, there's crotch, there's haven't-laundered-in-months, there's halitosis. Ultimately after several months without bathing it transcends all those distinctions and becomes barnyard. (I actually find barnyard easier to deal with because it's one consistent smell.) I can be compassionate about it when I'm on the clock, because my clients usually have no clue and that's not their fault. But when I'm off the clock I find I've gotten a lot less tolerant about it.

I can deal with sweat smells and bad breath in the dojo; it's to be expected. One person came last week who was way off the charts. She was worse off than some of my clients, well on the way to barnyard. That, but also her clothes smelled sour, there was alcohol and pot, and her skin was streaked with dirt. It's a shame because she was otherwise a great partner, but of course she was overly fond of headlocks and I smelled like crotch, pot, and barnyard by the time I got home.

I can let a lot go, but there's no way I'm letting this slide if I'm in close contact with someone. Especially if I'm not being paid to put up with it. At work we have a shower stall and a washer/dryer in the office for just such emergencies. She's a hippie chick, so I think I'll just smile sweetly with a "can you take a shower for next week? thanks!"

I'm sure this is a common issue we all deal with from time to time (none of us ever stink of course! :angel How do other people, or other dojos, handle it?

 

[mook jong man]

I know this has come up on MT before, I just need to vent for a bit.

I have an extremely keen and precise sense of smell. I can smell things locked away in closets from across a room. I can distinguish between species of trees as I walk past them. I'm not necessarily sensitive in the sense of approving or disapproving of different types of smells, I just pick up on a lot more nuances than most people.

I never used to mind body odor before, but since starting my new job it irks me. I work with a lot of homeless people, and people with psychosis who are just too busy fending off conspiracies to worry about soap. I'm now getting pretty well versed in different nuances of filth as well. There's armpit, there's crotch, there's haven't-laundered-in-months, there's halitosis. Ultimately after several months without bathing it transcends all those distinctions and becomes barnyard. (I actually find barnyard easier to deal with because it's one consistent smell.) I can be compassionate about it when I'm on the clock, because my clients usually have no clue and that's not their fault. But when I'm off the clock I find I've gotten a lot less tolerant about it.

I can deal with sweat smells and bad breath in the dojo; it's to be expected. One person came last week who was way off the charts. She was worse off than some of my clients, well on the way to barnyard. That, but also her clothes smelled sour, there was alcohol and pot, and her skin was streaked with dirt. It's a shame because she was otherwise a great partner, but of course she was overly fond of headlocks and I smelled like crotch, pot, and barnyard by the time I got home.

I can let a lot go, but there's no way I'm letting this slide if I'm in close contact with someone. Especially if I'm not being paid to put up with it. At work we have a shower stall and a washer/dryer in the office for just such emergencies. She's a hippie chick, so I think I'll just smile sweetly with a "can you take a shower for next week? thanks!"

I'm sure this is a common issue we all deal with from time to time (none of us ever stink of course! :angel How do other people, or other dojos, handle it?

What generally happens is nothing because people are too embarrassed to say anything , and people just start avoiding training with the hygenically challenged person.

Maybe you could get the head honcho to get up and give a little talk about maintaining the standard of personal hygiene in the training hall ,making sure uniforms are washed , and people shower before training etc.
Make it so that it is about everyone and not really directed at her so she won't be humiliated.

But cleanliness is very important when you have skin on skin contact between people , I remember in our school in the hot Oz summers we would have to apply tea tree oil or rubbing alcohol up and down our forearms to prevent skin infections spreading through the school from the chi sau training .

Once one person had the "chi sau pox" as we called it then it wouldn't take long for it to spread from person to person.
The constand grinding of forearm on forearm would enable the bacteria to get inside the hair follicles of the forearms and cause inflamed little itchy pustules to erupt on the skin.

Do you have Vicks over there , maybe apply some of that under your nose so you can't smell her , but that's not going to stop getting her special brand of perfume (Eau De Putrid) on your clothes I'm afraid.

 

[Flea]

This is something I've noticed in other places I've lived too. Certain counter-cultural groups seem to take pride in not bathing. I don't get it. Even when I was counter-cultural myself I was fussy about my hygiene. I'm not just talking about a couple days worth of sweat over a camping trip, but a fashion statement. Why would anyone take pride in being filthy?

:soapbox:

I guess I'll ask my instructor to bring it up. It's probably better that way, because I have no gift for subtlety at all. And I really do like her, just ... from over here, thanks.

 

[oftheherd1]

This is something I've noticed in other places I've lived too. Certain counter-cultural groups seem to take pride in not bathing. I don't get it. Even when I was counter-cultural myself I was fussy about my hygiene. I'm not just talking about a couple days worth of sweat over a camping trip, but a fashion statement. Why would anyone take pride in being filthy?

:soapbox:

I guess I'll ask my instructor to bring it up. It's probably better that way, because I have no gift for subtlety at all. And I really do like her, just ... from over here, thanks.

I agree your best bet is to talk to the overall teacher. Hopefully it will not be the day after you have worked out with her. I can't relate as I don't recall it happening when I studied, and certainly not when I taught with a small group of professional students. Good luck.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I also have a sensitive sniffer. My driver's license expired last week and I went to renew it. I was amazed at the strong odor of marijuana in the room. Who gets high and then goes to get their driver's license? I tried to maneuver around the room to where it was least strong, and that's when I realized to my horror that it was coming from more than one person. Maybe 50 people in the room and at least two of them were stoned. On a Friday. At 11 am. Bloody hell.

Me, I always take a shower before heading into the dojo, which means that sometimes I'm taking three showers a day, since I also need one when I get home. I don't care, soap is cheap. My dojomates don't need to smell my funk. I also keep my toenails and fingernails trimmed short and I have a nail file in my bag in case of jagged edges.

Sensei frequently says a word or two - generically - about hygiene to the entire class, so he knows how to handle it. It can also include BO caused by certain strongly-flavored foods, if you know what I mean.

The only thing I can say in defense of smelly people is that they generally don't know it. We used to go to the Mojave Desert for field exercises that were 30 to 60 days long. We came back smelling like the Creature from the Black Lagoon; but we didn't know it. We were all used to it. But we'd pile out of our vehicles at our barracks and have to hose off outside before being allowed in; it was a standing order for the sake of our comrades.

 

[Namii]

Thankfully not in the dojang....yet..
We did however have a couple stinkies in the platoon when we were in Iraq. Serisously icky. And this was on my second time over when we had the ability to shower almost every day. On my first time over we ALL stunk because showers were scarce. How we dealt with the stinky soldiers was first had an overall hygiene reminder given to the platoon as a whole. When it still continued, the squad leaders had talks with them. One of them actually dragged his ever putrid laundry bag to the laundry for him because the roommate couldnt take it no more.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Avoid the gaming room at any sci-fi con. It gets so bad in those places we once discussed attacking with supersoakers filled with fabreeze.

 

[Big Don]

I also keep my toenails and fingernails trimmed short and I have a nail file in my bag in case of jagged edges.

Sensei frequently says a word or two - generically - about hygiene to the entire class, so he knows how to handle it.

That is how it is handled at my school, as well. Although, if someone doesn't take the hint, he will be pulled aside by one of the Black Belts and given a more explicit speech.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Thankfully not in the dojang....yet..
We did however have a couple stinkies in the platoon when we were in Iraq. Serisously icky. And this was on my second time over when we had the ability to shower almost every day. On my first time over we ALL stunk because showers were scarce. How we dealt with the stinky soldiers was first had an overall hygiene reminder given to the platoon as a whole. When it still continued, the squad leaders had talks with them. One of them actually dragged his ever putrid laundry bag to the laundry for him because the roommate couldnt take it no more.

In Marine Corps boot camp in 1979, we had a couple guys who were unfamiliar with the concepts of basic hygiene and could not be persuaded to take a shower. In those days, we all did our own laundry on big concrete racks outside of the barracks using bottles of 'Whisk' and stiff brushes and water. Since the bottles had a tendency to leak, they were all kept in a broom closet known as the 'Whiskey Locker'. We held surprise midnight scrubdowns for the stinkers; his squad leader and members would wake him up at zero dark thirty, frog march him into the head, and present him with two options. The first was he take a shower immediately. The second was that he'd get a scrubdown against his will with Whisk and scrubbrushes, in what was called a "Whiskey Party." As far as I know, no one took option two, and none of the smelly bastiches had to have a round two. One went nuts and started swinging on one of our Drill Instructors a few weeks later, though. I think he had something wrong with him besides an aversion to soap.

 

[oftheherd1]

When I was in junior ROTC in the late 50s, we sometimes saw training films put out by the Army on hygiene. In 1960, when in basic training, we had three guys in my platoon who had just never been taught by their families to bath except on Saturday night, if you needed it. The one downstairs where I was caught on pretty quick. The two upstairs needed a little more help. One was really bad. First they all took hourly turns all one night. 1/2 hour he washed his clothes, the next 1/2 hour he spent in the shower. After a couple of weeks, they all ganged up on him and scrubbed him for about 30 to 45 minutes with GI brushes (stiff brushes as Bill mentioned), and GI lye soap. Bless his poor heart, he seemed happy that everyone paid that much attention to him. I think there was even a blanket party for him once. That is where you get a blanket thrown over your head so you can't see who is doing it, and people take turns holding you while others thump on you. That is usually reserved for more serious offenses such as stealing, but they were getting desparate up there. I don't think he ever did understand the reason to shower more often.

 

[jks9199]

Sometimes, a general word from the teacher will work. Unfortunately, a lot of the time the offenders are quite thankful that someone send something to "all those other people."

As difficult as it is, both to overcome your personal reluctance, and to be nice about it -- a friendly direct word often is needed.

 

[Flea]

I agree your best bet is to talk to the overall teacher. Hopefully it will not be the day after you have worked out with her.

Okay, I guess I'll behave and ask him to bring it up. ... [big heavy dramatic ... SIIIIIIGH :seppuku:]

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sometimes, a general word from the teacher will work. Unfortunately, a lot of the time the offenders are quite thankful that someone send something to "all those other people."

As difficult as it is, both to overcome your personal reluctance, and to be nice about it -- a friendly direct word often is needed.

I had a coworker once who stunk of cat urine. I mean, bad. And I was far from the only one who noticed that smell. It was awful. People tried to drop kind hints, they'd talk in conversations about how they had cats and how it sure it easy to get used to that smell and not even realize that it is more offensive to others, and so on, but it never sank in. Someone put a box of kitty litter on the guy's desk on day before he came to work; he threw a fit and went home 'sick' for the rest of the day. I don't know who did that, but I wished they hadn't. A few days later, we all got together and went and to our boss and explained that we could not take it anymore. The boss called the guy in, they had a conversation. Voices were raised, and when the guy came out, he was screaming and cursing at all of us. He grabbed his personal effects off his desk, knocked stuff around, and shouted about how we were all out to get him because he did NOT smell like cat pee. Then he left. I'm glad he never came back, but I felt bad for him. He clearly did not believe he stunk. I've met other people like that. I don't get it, but apparently some people are just unaware of their funk.

I don't know what it is; I wish I did. I think it *might* be a form of mental illness, albeit a mild issue compared to many mental problems people might have.

Me, I'm always concerned if I smell funk in the dojo in case it might be coming from me. I'd be the first to believe it if someone told me I had the funk. I don't understand the angry denial thing. If everyone thinks you smell; you probably smell.

Good luck with it.

 

[Thesemindz]

I've been on both sides of this coin. I've been the smelly guy, and I've had to train with the smelly guy.

I learned. Now, I try to take a shower immediately before any karate class. You smell better, you get a nice clean sweat, and your training partners appreciate it. I've had to call students in to the office before and tell them they need to shower and clean their gi, it's usually pretty embarrassing for them. Most of the time, saying a few words during class to everyone generally is enough to address the problem.

Keep the nails short. Clean yourself and your gi. Bandage your wounds. Wear the proper training equipment. These should be the first rules of the studio. Hygiene. It's a matter of respect. Respecting yourself and respecting your training partners. If someone doesn't show that respect, I think polite and subtle is the way to go. Then direct and private. Then direct and public. If they don't clean up after that, I'd refuse them entry to my classes.

Sometimes people can't shower before class. I'm not going to get bent about a normal amount of human sweat and body odor. But if we can't be in the same room with you, you can't be in the same room with us.


-Rob

 

[Flea]

Yup. Nose notwithstanding, I think I'm more sympathetic than most people because of my job. If someone is homeless, or simply unable to bathe because of a disability, I don't hold it against them. But ... we have a locker room with showers. I hope it doesn't come to it, but we're in a position to ask her to use it. Smells are easy to get accustomed to because one can become acclimated over time, which explains a lot of body odor and smelly homes. She seems like a very sweet person, probably oblivious.

 

[Thesemindz]

If she's oblivious you may be doing her a huge favor by gently pointing out to her in a private setting that she reeks of death and you want to cut off your nose every time she comes within a mile of you. Poor personal hygiene is one of the biggest inhibitors to developing good relationships. Nobody cares how nice you are if their eyes tear up when you enter the room.


-Rob

 

[Flea]

Oh, very much so. I wouldn't mind being the bad guy, but then I'd run the risk of everyone thinking I'm the bad guy. And that doesn't serve any purpose for me either, especially if my new Big Meanie image prompts her to get even more defensive and dig her heels in. Ah well. I emailed Teach, so it's in his capable hands for the time being. Gotta let it go, at least until next class.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Maybe they're geeks?

Cleanliness was apparently a low priority, since tales abounded of his noticeable grunginess. (Later Greenblatt would insist that he was no worse than some of the others.) Some hackers recall that one of the things Greenblatt's hacking precluded was regular bathing, and the result was a powerful odor. The joke around the AI lab was that there was a new scientific olfactory measure called a milliblatt. One or two milliblatts was extremely powerful, and one full blatt was just about inconceivable. To decrease the milliblatts, the story goes, hackers maneuvered Greenblatt to a place in the hallway of Building 20 where there was an emergency shower for cases of accidental exposure to chemicals, and let it rip.

Gosper would sometimes tweak Greenblatt for his personal habits, and was particularly bothered at Greenblatt's habit of rubbing his hands together, which resulted in little pieces of dirt falling out. Gosper called these blattlies. When Greenblatt worked on Gosper's desk and left blattlies behind, Gosper would make a point of washing the area with ammonia.

From Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution by Steven Levy

 

[Flea]

Could be. The worst of the countercultural offenders I've encountered have been hippies, the occasional scadian, and the anarchists I escorted with at the clinic. The anarchists were by far the worst. I suspect they fantasized about a violent overthrow of Proctor & Gamble. I never brought it up with them, and I should have. I'm sure it made things that much more challenging for the patients entering the clinic.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I tend to be a very neat person. I fold my socks ok.
I usually shower in the morning before I go anywhere. In the summer I'll take 2 showers on most days (like today where it's 92' in my apartment).
On gym days, it might be a 3 shower day.
Winter I may skip a day, IF I'm not going anywhere.
On a few occasions, I'll get so engrossed in something that I might miss 2 in a row. Rare, but it does happen.
I can't tell I'm getting wiffy. It's the gradual build up and getting used to it thing.
You just can't tell.

My wife reminds me on those days. Sometimes nicely. Sometimes by not-nice means.

My 89 yr old grandfather doesn't believe old smokers stink.
That clothes can be worn a week straight without worry.
He gets quite annoyed when I hose him down with fabreeze.

I've also worn WW2 surplus gas masks to dinner as a 'subtle hint' that it's time to change shirts.