Self introduction & several aspects of street fighting, and my opinion on MA in such scenarios.

jks9199

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Hello PDG! Nice to meet you. While we don't register our hands and feet with the police, just as we have to register a gun. A MA practitioner that has registered in a local dojo, should he get involved in a fight and do some damage, he will be investigated by the police and in said investigation they are likely to find out that he is an MA practitioner because of the dojo's roaster. Should that happen and depending on the level of damage as you suggested he may be charged heavier had he never practiced. It is no secret that MA are designed for combat so a court of law may take it as if you had some sort of advantage over the other guy. Law enforcers and military personnel are prosecuted in a similar fashion since them and MA practitioners have an expertise in combat.
You're running a private security company, you're offering self defense advice -- yet it seems you don't understand the basics of the laws governing the use of force -- let alone a police investigation. You seem to have conflated a civil proceeding and a criminal proceeding, among other things.

In brief, self defense is an affirmative defense in court. You're admitting you did something that would be wrong -- namely, an assault and battery -- but that you had a reason that justified your action or excused you from criminal liability. In the case of the use of force, you're saying that you had to harm someone so that you would not be harmed yourself, and you'll argue that your force was reasonable and appropriate to the threat presented. A toddler grabbing your neck doesn't justify lethal force -- but an 18 year old kid, pissed off, with a broken chair leg? Hell, yeah. There's a lot more to it than this, and I'm not going into at length here (it's covered in depth in several threads...) but you are generally justified in using the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve a bad situation. The only thing different for a cop versus an ordinary citizen is that, in the course of their duties, police are often permitted to use force proactively and earlier than an ordinary citizen -- but they have to be able to articulate or explain what led them to using force.

(By the way -- you don't have to register guns in every state...)
 

jobo

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You're running a private security company, you're offering self defense advice -- yet it seems you don't understand the basics of the laws governing the use of force -- let alone a police investigation. You seem to have conflated a civil proceeding and a criminal proceeding, among other things.

In brief, self defense is an affirmative defense in court. You're admitting you did something that would be wrong -- namely, an assault and battery -- but that you had a reason that justified your action or excused you from criminal liability. In the case of the use of force, you're saying that you had to harm someone so that you would not be harmed yourself, and you'll argue that your force was reasonable and appropriate to the threat presented. A toddler grabbing your neck doesn't justify lethal force -- but an 18 year old kid, pissed off, with a broken chair leg? Hell, yeah. There's a lot more to it than this, and I'm not going into at length here (it's covered in depth in several threads...) but you are generally justified in using the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve a bad situation. The only thing different for a cop versus an ordinary citizen is that, in the course of their duties, police are often permitted to use force proactively and earlier than an ordinary citizen -- but they have to be able to articulate or explain what led them to using force.

(By the way -- you don't have to register guns in every state...)
He has some justification in what he is saying, if yourself self defence/ reasonable force thing holds up, your fine and dandy, however should it not, and you are convicted of assault of some sort then the fact your a trained killer could quite easily, be used against you.it may even diminish The fear for your own safety thing , WHAT, your a,300lbs black belt and you were out in fear by the 150lbs youth,

Of course how they find out is another matter, unless you wear your get up to the store,
 

alcm93

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You're running a private security company, you're offering self defense advice -- yet it seems you don't understand the basics of the laws governing the use of force -- let alone a police investigation. You seem to have conflated a civil proceeding and a criminal proceeding, among other things.

In brief, self defense is an affirmative defense in court. You're admitting you did something that would be wrong -- namely, an assault and battery -- but that you had a reason that justified your action or excused you from criminal liability. In the case of the use of force, you're saying that you had to harm someone so that you would not be harmed yourself, and you'll argue that your force was reasonable and appropriate to the threat presented. A toddler grabbing your neck doesn't justify lethal force -- but an 18 year old kid, pissed off, with a broken chair leg? Hell, yeah. There's a lot more to it than this, and I'm not going into at length here (it's covered in depth in several threads...) but you are generally justified in using the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve a bad situation. The only thing different for a cop versus an ordinary citizen is that, in the course of their duties, police are often permitted to use force proactively and earlier than an ordinary citizen -- but they have to be able to articulate or explain what led them to using force.

(By the way -- you don't have to register guns in every state...)


Hello Jks9199. True I may not have full understanding of the laws governing the use of force, in the U.S.A. My company is in Mexico, of Mexican law I do have knowledge regarding the matter. Also I never claimed to offer "self-defence" advice. My company does Armored transport, Electronic security, we sell tactical equipment and vehicles, Forensics, traffic solutions, safety vaults, among others. We don't professionals delve in Self-Defense because it is very problematic, the so called advice are questions asked by acquaintances and friends, I said that I'm often asked not that I consult in the matter.

As the title of the threat says I exposed several aspects of street fights and whether MA training will help you in said situations. Many people have misconceptions, all I did was set three examples to show that street fighting is a broad topic and how MA training does help in said situations.

To the reply to which you replied I stated that MA practitioners are subject to a less amicable situation should he face court, at the very least in Mexico practitioners of any sort of MA are credited to be Cold Steel, should they take part in a confrontation, even if they were the victims, they are heavily prosecuted. What I explained was that should a MA face charges for assault there are ways to find out that he is a practitioner and that may have a negative effect in court. Also military and law enforcement are subjects to a similar situation as an MA should they use force, however it doesn't take a genius to figure out that said situation applies when they are off duty and the situation did not demand for it.

It is hard to see where you come from, not only have I not offered any advice but also I haven't talked about law enforcement, I didn't even talked about self defense as a stand alone topic, the threat is not about self defense and legal matters. I was just having fun chatting in a threat that I opened with the objective of becoming active in the community, I'm trying to be light hearted about it. My very long script involved examples that are easy to follow, involved fun facts, and was meant as way to express one's ideas, I'm very well aware that flaws are bound to exist in any product I devise.

The fact that you are making a judgement about me after being able to read a few responses and an introduction without bothering to ask any questions, goes to show four things:

1.- Your narrow perception of the world, you couldn't fathom that I was not from the U.S., and didn't bother to consider researching before responding.
2.- Your very short potential and huge limitations, clearly you are unable to accept anything extending beyond your nose, thus you jump to conclusions and express the very first thing that comes to mind without considering any variables.
3.- Your lack of education and proper manners, not only did you misinterpret the intent of the text, but you acted rather aggressively without any provocation.
4.- Most important of all you show a lack of ability to read, comprehend, and put the information you have processed in context. You came of as wanting.

Also I'm well aware that in the U.S. gun possession is regulated state wide as opposed to the nation wide regulation of many countries. State regulations can greatly differ from each other. Anyone can deduct that from all the senseless shootings that take place in the U.S.

If I may give you some friendly advice, refrain from running your mouth until you have had a serious education and most importantly learned proper etiquette, and manners for you seem to be seriously lacking in both and will only do harm when expressing yourself.

Kind regards.

Alex
 
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mrt2

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You're running a private security company, you're offering self defense advice -- yet it seems you don't understand the basics of the laws governing the use of force -- let alone a police investigation. You seem to have conflated a civil proceeding and a criminal proceeding, among other things.

In brief, self defense is an affirmative defense in court. You're admitting you did something that would be wrong -- namely, an assault and battery -- but that you had a reason that justified your action or excused you from criminal liability. In the case of the use of force, you're saying that you had to harm someone so that you would not be harmed yourself, and you'll argue that your force was reasonable and appropriate to the threat presented. A toddler grabbing your neck doesn't justify lethal force -- but an 18 year old kid, pissed off, with a broken chair leg? Hell, yeah. There's a lot more to it than this, and I'm not going into at length here (it's covered in depth in several threads...) but you are generally justified in using the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve a bad situation. The only thing different for a cop versus an ordinary citizen is that, in the course of their duties, police are often permitted to use force proactively and earlier than an ordinary citizen -- but they have to be able to articulate or explain what led them to using force.

(By the way -- you don't have to register guns in every state...)
Cops act or are supposed to act under "color of law." On the one hand, this gives them the power to arrest, detain, and investigate, and if necessary, use force to do these things. Citizens do not act under color of law, so for example, if
Hello Jks9199. True I may not have full understanding of the laws governing the use of force, in the U.S.A. My company is in Mexico, of Mexican law I do have knowledge regarding the matter. Also I never claimed to offer "self-defence" advice. My company does Armored transport, Electronic security, we sell tactical equipment and vehicles, Forensics, traffic solutions, safety vaults, among others. We don't professionals delve in Self-Defense because it is very problematic, the so called advice are questions asked by acquaintances and friends, I said that I'm often asked not that I consult in the matter.

As the title of the threat says I exposed several aspects of street fights and whether MA training will help you in said situations. Many people have misconceptions, all I did was set three examples to show that street fighting is a broad topic and how MA training does help in said situations.

To the reply to which you replied I stated that MA practitioners are subject to a less amicable situation should he face court, at the very least in Mexico practitioners of any sort of MA are credited to be Cold Steel, should they take part in a confrontation, even if they were the victims, they are heavily prosecuted. What I explained was that should a MA face charges for assault there are ways to find out that he is a practitioner and that may have a negative effect in court. Also military and law enforcement are subjects to a similar situation as an MA should they use force, however it doesn't take a genius to figure out that said situation applies when they are off duty and the situation did not demand for it.

It is hard to see where you come from, not only have I not offered any advice but also I haven't talked about law enforcement, I didn't even talked about self defense as a stand alone topic, the threat is not about self defense and legal matters. I was just having fun chatting in a threat that I opened with the objective of becoming active in the community, I'm trying to be light hearted about it. My very long script involved examples that are easy to follow, involved fun facts, and was meant as way to express one's ideas, I'm very well aware that flaws are bound to exist in any product I devise.

The fact that you are making a judgement about me after being able to read a few responses and an introduction without bothering to ask any questions, goes to show four things:

1.- Your narrow perception of the world, you couldn't fathom that I was not from the U.S., and didn't bother to consider researching before responding.


Alex
Respectfully, you represented yourself as having a degree from Northeastern University, and never clarified in your first post that your legal expertise is limited to Mexico. Moreover, in your initial post, you seem to write using some American idioms, so it isn't unreasonable for a reader to conclude that you are talking to and from a US perspective. It is always useful when pontificating about anything, but especially law to specify what jurisdiction you are talking about.
 

hoshin1600

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If I may give you some friendly advice, refrain from running your mouth until you have had a serious education and most importantly learned proper etiquette, and manners for you seem to be seriously lacking in both and will only do harm when expressing yourself.

Here is some friendly advise, many of the people who post here are some of the most knowledgeable people on martial arts I know along with knowledge on other related topics like violence and law enforcement. We can smell BS a mile away. Now it may not be obvious to you, but it has become obvious to many of us that there is a disconnect between how you are portraying yourself and how your posts are written. They are filled with a lot of errors and common misunderstandings about martial arts.
Maybe it's better to refrain from trying to inform people and just focus on reading a bit and try to learn a little.
2nd piece of advise....don't argue with an administrator, you can get yourself banned.
 

now disabled

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Hello Jks9199. True I may not have full understanding of the laws governing the use of force, in the U.S.A. My company is in Mexico, of Mexican law I do have knowledge regarding the matter. Also I never claimed to offer "self-defence" advice. My company does Armored transport, Electronic security, we sell tactical equipment and vehicles, Forensics, traffic solutions, safety vaults, among others. We don't professionals delve in Self-Defense because it is very problematic, the so called advice are questions asked by acquaintances and friends, I said that I'm often asked not that I consult in the matter.

As the title of the threat says I exposed several aspects of street fights and whether MA training will help you in said situations. Many people have misconceptions, all I did was set three examples to show that street fighting is a broad topic and how MA training does help in said situations.

To the reply to which you replied I stated that MA practitioners are subject to a less amicable situation should he face court, at the very least in Mexico practitioners of any sort of MA are credited to be Cold Steel, should they take part in a confrontation, even if they were the victims, they are heavily prosecuted. What I explained was that should a MA face charges for assault there are ways to find out that he is a practitioner and that may have a negative effect in court. Also military and law enforcement are subjects to a similar situation as an MA should they use force, however it doesn't take a genius to figure out that said situation applies when they are off duty and the situation did not demand for it.

It is hard to see where you come from, not only have I not offered any advice but also I haven't talked about law enforcement, I didn't even talked about self defense as a stand alone topic, the threat is not about self defense and legal matters. I was just having fun chatting in a threat that I opened with the objective of becoming active in the community, I'm trying to be light hearted about it. My very long script involved examples that are easy to follow, involved fun facts, and was meant as way to express one's ideas, I'm very well aware that flaws are bound to exist in any product I devise.

The fact that you are making a judgement about me after being able to read a few responses and an introduction without bothering to ask any questions, goes to show four things:

1.- Your narrow perception of the world, you couldn't fathom that I was not from the U.S., and didn't bother to consider researching before responding.
2.- Your very short potential and huge limitations, clearly you are unable to accept anything extending beyond your nose, thus you jump to conclusions and express the very first thing that comes to mind without considering any variables.
3.- Your lack of education and proper manners, not only did you misinterpret the intent of the text, but you acted rather aggressively without any provocation.
4.- Most important of all you show a lack of ability to read, comprehend, and put the information you have processed in context. You came of as wanting.

Also I'm well aware that in the U.S. gun possession is regulated state wide as opposed to the nation wide regulation of many countries. State regulations can greatly differ from each other. Anyone can deduct that from all the senseless shootings that take place in the U.S.

If I may give you some friendly advice, refrain from running your mouth until you have had a serious education and most importantly learned proper etiquette, and manners for you seem to be seriously lacking in both and will only do harm when expressing yourself.

Kind regards.

Alex


I'd take the advice and read and not preach as truth to tell when I read your first post I honestly thought that it was a tad far fetched and it was a mix of Rambo meets LA Law meets NCIS meets Kung Fu and honestly made me think that if you are that well connected then the last thing you'd be doing is dancing out in public as that just makes you a target and to me at least and is kinda leaving you open to flak, that you obviously don't like.

I am far from any expert but I am educated and fairly well and I do consider that I can interact with people with out preaching and if I make a point and folks do not agree then that is their right to not agree.It does not mean that there needs to be a fall out or mud slinging.


Don't take offence if folks disagree it is the way off the world and human nature if you don't agree then state your position and agree to disagree there no need to call a persons education into it.
 

hoshin1600

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Mexican State Passes Law Expanding Right to Kill in Self-Defense

https://www.quora.com/Do-states-in-Mexico-have-stand-your-ground-laws

"in Mexico we have the self defense laws, which in general say that you can repel an aggression real, actual and imminent in defense of properties or goods (yours or someone else), only if exists need of defense and a rationality in the means used and there is sufficient provocation from the aggressor. Sorry if it is not clear, but legal jargon is hard to translate.

In a real life situation what this means is that you can only use force against a intruder for example if he has the intent to commit an aggression and harm you. The key word here is intent. In Mexico, you have to prove that the aggressor had the intent (he was actually jumping at you, firing at you, throwing you knives or strangling you) so you can claim self defense. If for example you find an intruder with a knife on your house, you can not fired at him, unless he actually try to attack you and you can prove it. Otherwise he can claim that he was going to run away and not harm you so you would have no justification to do anything."

3 minutes of Google -Fu and i came up with this..
not an official document or proof of anything but it sounds similar to the US and other places around the world.
 

oftheherd1

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Hello Jks9199. True I may not have full understanding of the laws governing the use of force, in the U.S.A. My company is in Mexico, of Mexican law I do have knowledge regarding the matter. Also I never claimed to offer "self-defence" advice. My company does Armored transport, Electronic security, we sell tactical equipment and vehicles, Forensics, traffic solutions, safety vaults, among others. We don't professionals delve in Self-Defense because it is very problematic, the so called advice are questions asked by acquaintances and friends, I said that I'm often asked not that I consult in the matter.

As your company is in Mexico, and you are apparently from there does explain some things about your post. It explains some the the wording as well, even though your use of English was very good. You say above that you never claimed to offer "self-defence" advice. I guess a lot of us were confused by this sentence from your first post: "Self Defense is a topic on which I'm often consulted and have studied religiously to give a proper answer."

As the title of the threat says I exposed several aspects of street fights and whether MA training will help you in said situations. Many people have misconceptions, all I did was set three examples to show that street fighting is a broad topic and how MA training does help in said situations.

To the reply to which you replied I stated that MA practitioners are subject to a less amicable situation should he face court, at the very least in Mexico practitioners of any sort of MA are credited to be Cold Steel, should they take part in a confrontation, even if they were the victims, they are heavily prosecuted. What I explained was that should a MA face charges for assault there are ways to find out that he is a practitioner and that may have a negative effect in court. Also military and law enforcement are subjects to a similar situation as an MA should they use force, however it doesn't take a genius to figure out that said situation applies when they are off duty and the situation did not demand for it.

It is hard to see where you come from, not only have I not offered any advice but also I haven't talked about law enforcement, I didn't even talked about self defense as a stand alone topic, the threat is not about self defense and legal matters. I was just having fun chatting in a threat that I opened with the objective of becoming active in the community, I'm trying to be light hearted about it. My very long script involved examples that are easy to follow, involved fun facts, and was meant as way to express one's ideas, I'm very well aware that flaws are bound to exist in any product I devise.

I think if you keep posting like above and below, you will quickly become active in the community.

The fact that you are making a judgement about me after being able to read a few responses and an introduction without bothering to ask any questions, goes to show four things:

1.- Your narrow perception of the world, you couldn't fathom that I was not from the U.S., and didn't bother to consider researching before responding.
2.- Your very short potential and huge limitations, clearly you are unable to accept anything extending beyond your nose, thus you jump to conclusions and express the very first thing that comes to mind without considering any variables.
3.- Your lack of education and proper manners, not only did you misinterpret the intent of the text, but you acted rather aggressively without any provocation.
4.- Most important of all you show a lack of ability to read, comprehend, and put the information you have processed in context. You came of as wanting.


Careful sir, you may need to aim those comments above to yourself.

Also I'm well aware that in the U.S. gun possession is regulated state wide as opposed to the nation wide regulation of many countries. State regulations can greatly differ from each other. Anyone can deduct that from all the senseless shootings that take place in the U.S.

If I may give you some friendly advice, refrain from running your mouth until you have had a serious education and most importantly learned proper etiquette, and manners for you seem to be seriously lacking in both and will only do harm when expressing yourself.

You may give advice to any of us. I am sure you can give good advice on many subjects. But may I suggest you not be too quick to take offense to things said, especially since things may not always be meant as they may sound. Remember, (as you should know know) many MA are type A personalities. And on the internet, it is easier to act that way.

Kind regards.

Alex

Anyway, welcome to Martial Talk. I look forward to your input in the future. I think you may have many useful and interesting things to talk about.
 

jks9199

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.don't argue with an administrator, you can get yourself banned.

It's perfectly acceptable to argue with me about a technical issue, opinion, etc. Hell, I encourage it; differences of opinion are what makes things interesting! We strive hard not to moderate in threads where we are involved as posters. Once in a while, we have to -- which usually means we stop posting in that thread.

If I'm acting in my official role as an Admin here... Yeah, arguing then isn't so smart.
 

hoshin1600

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It's perfectly acceptable to argue with me about a technical issue, opinion, etc. Hell, I encourage it; differences of opinion are what makes things interesting! We strive hard not to moderate in threads where we are involved as posters. Once in a while, we have to -- which usually means we stop posting in that thread.

If I'm acting in my official role as an Admin here... Yeah, arguing then isn't so smart.

I was being polite using the word argue. There is a difference between topical debate and personal verbal attacks. I was thinking more towards the latter.
 

jks9199

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I disagree.

(Ducks and runs)

Nobody said you were smart... :p

I was being polite using the word argue. There is a difference between topical debate and personal verbal attacks. I was thinking more towards the latter.

No problem. I just wanted to remind folks that we don't generally moderate if we're debating... I've known of boards where you really didn't want to upset the staff, or you would find yourself banned...
 
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