Self-defense in your car?

HKphooey

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I did a quick search and did not see any threads on this subject. If I missed something, I apologize and please post any links.

Anyone teach any self-defense techniques designed to work while seat-belted in a car? I was toying with some real life applications/siuations and found those to be the most difficult.

I have come up with few sample situations:
  • Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
  • Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
  • Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
  • Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
I would assume some of the techniques could also be used by individuals in a wheel chair.

Please share your techniques or ideas on the subject.

Thanks!
 

samurai69

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I cover ssome car stuff in my advanced SD courses

In taxi - assaulted by driver

Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
we have trained scenarios similar to this

there has been a lot of interest in the car jackings as some of my students travel to S Africa frequently and car jacks are on the increase there
 

Rich Parsons

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HKphooey said:
I did a quick search and did not see any threads on this subject. If I missed something, I apologize and please post any links.

Anyone teach any self-defense techniques designed to work while seat-belted in a car? I was toying with some real life applications/siuations and found those to be the most difficult.

I have come up with few sample situations:
  • Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
  • Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
  • Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
  • Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
I would assume some of the techniques could also be used by individuals in a wheel chair.

Please share your techniques or ideas on the subject.

Thanks!

  • Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
Release the Brake and move forward. This puts the "B" Pillar in the way and or hits the attacker with your car. If you do accidentily hit the car in fron of you your insurance should cover it because they will then move to get out of their car and the bad guy most likely will leave.
  • Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
Once again see the puch above. Only this time they begin to chase the vehicle. Also gets attention of others if at red light or in traffic. If not then you can drive away.

If they have a gun then you give them the car. Unless you children are in the vehicle and in that case in my limited opinion one should not leave the vehicle.

As to gaining access right hand drops and releases seat belt. Then the right hand reaches across the body and you meet the person reaching in for you. The left arm may (* Most likely *) be still tangled with the seat belt. This is fine. If you must exit the vehicle you continue to point with the right hand and left your left go limp or fall back to your side. This causes a spin of the torso to have the release complete from the seat belt.
  • Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
If vehicle is running put in gear and drive away. Slam on brakes, repeat as drastically as possible to remove hands from throat. Also attracks attention.

If vehicle seat belt is being used to assist in the stangle the seat belt should lock up when the brakes are applied in a harsh manner. Do the above and then release the seat belt. The person behind you is most likely not going to be belted in. If no one is in the vehicle, then you can open the door and release from the seat belt as discribed above.
  • Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
If the attacker has already used over-powering physical force to get one into the back seat, then there is not much that can be done. The person should have used everythign they have had already to stop this.

If the attacker has a gun, then the idea is to get them to place the gun down and then one can use all they have to defend themsleves.
 

MA-Caver

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Rich Parsons said:
[*]Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle. [/LIST] If vehicle is running put in gear and drive away. Slam on brakes, repeat as drastically as possible to remove hands from throat. Also attracts attention.

If vehicle seat belt is being used to assist in the stangle the seat belt should lock up when the brakes are applied in a harsh manner. Do the above and then release the seat belt. The person behind you is most likely not going to be belted in. If no one is in the vehicle, then you can open the door and release from the seat belt as discribed above.
.
I went over this one in particular and was thinking that grabbing the hands that are grabbing you and simply folding one's self forward towards the passenger seat foot well should break their hold if they are not wanting to be pulled out of the back seat. They're already off balance/stability due to reaching up over the seat (and head rest possibly) to put their hands around one's throat. Moving diagonally dowward right towards the passenger-seat should spread the left arm of the attacker away enough to break that particular grip.
If the seat belt is used then yeah I would think stomping on the brake to lock up the belt is an okay idea. But it also throws your body forward and thus increasing risk of neck injury. Something to think about there.
Applying whatever rear choke technique your respective art has would be the best bet... sitting or standing the movement with the upper torso and arms should be the same. If your in motion in the automobile then yeah crash the damn car and try to find a cop to crash in-to. Anyone who is stupid or daring enough to apply a choke while inside a 2000 lb piece of plastic and metal is in motion and capable of attaining high speeds ... is dangerous. They apparently have no regard for their own safety. Or they're just supremely confident.
Getting assistance from others is tantamount.
If you're in a dark avenue or something then laying of the horn and trying to get to a better lighted area with more traffic is the best bet... if possible. Choking with a garrote is quick and painful. You have literally only seconds to act.
Looking into the back seat before getting into the car (or even opening the door) helps quite a bit in avoiding this particular scenario.
 

stone_dragone

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It would seem that situational awareness would be the best preparation for this type of event. Not just situational awareness relative to other people, but to inanimate objects in and around the vehicle. I do like the pulling ahead and hitting the car infront to gain attention.
 

Rich Parsons

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MA-Caver said:
.
I went over this one in particular and was thinking that grabbing the hands that are grabbing you and simply folding one's self forward towards the passenger seat foot well should break their hold if they are not wanting to be pulled out of the back seat. They're already off balance/stability due to reaching up over the seat (and head rest possibly) to put their hands around one's throat. Moving diagonally dowward right towards the passenger-seat should spread the left arm of the attacker away enough to break that particular grip.
If the seat belt is used then yeah I would think stomping on the brake to lock up the belt is an okay idea. But it also throws your body forward and thus increasing risk of neck injury. Something to think about there.
Applying whatever rear choke technique your respective art has would be the best bet... sitting or standing the movement with the upper torso and arms should be the same. If your in motion in the automobile then yeah crash the damn car and try to find a cop to crash in-to. Anyone who is stupid or daring enough to apply a choke while inside a 2000 lb piece of plastic and metal is in motion and capable of attaining high speeds ... is dangerous. They apparently have no regard for their own safety. Or they're just supremely confident.
Getting assistance from others is tantamount.
If you're in a dark avenue or something then laying of the horn and trying to get to a better lighted area with more traffic is the best bet... if possible. Choking with a garrote is quick and painful. You have literally only seconds to act.
Looking into the back seat before getting into the car (or even opening the door) helps quite a bit in avoiding this particular scenario.


While I understand the neck injury you were stopped so the amount of speed you get is limited so the deceleration is an issue and the second order term called jerk is what would hurt the neck. But, just a simple reach back when they can hide their face behind the seat or head rest is not enough to get them to release. Believe me, it is hard. If they think you are crazy enough to crash the car anyways they usually stop holding you and look for a place to grab and then exit. Unless they were looking for the kill, in which case they would have already shot you or slit your throat.

In your example this may work depending upon the vehicle. A minivan or even a full truck or SUV with a bench seat or standard center console. But in a car with a center console the leaning over is restricted by your bending motion and the interference fit of the console and your body.

Now, I agree that many will do what they want to do. I am also not opposed to doing certain things that many people would not do as it is just not in their character or make up. So the idea of runnning at 20 miles an hour into a wall was rejected as most people are not willing to commit to that type of maneuver.

Yet, a release of the brake while steping on the pedal gives forward momentum of the vehicle but a backward momentum of the bodies in the car, and the brake decreases the forward momentum but also causes the bodies to change direction from backwards to forewards. You have broken their center if you react in time. Hence the quick launch with the quick jerk. Try it. And yes if you know you have a neck injury then do not do it. But then again most people with this type of injury would not be in a class for this type of training.

****************

Also Note: I went with the assumption that the person in the car was oblivious to the world until the encounter occurred. Otherwise opening the door into people, moving towards them to scare them back. (* This puts you into the attacker mode and could be liable, -- Once again things I am willing to do to survive. *)
 

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Rich Parsons said:
While I understand the neck injury you were stopped so the amount of speed you get is limited so the deceleration is an issue and the second order term called jerk is what would hurt the neck. But, just a simple reach back when they can hide their face behind the seat or head rest is not enough to get them to release. Believe me, it is hard. If they think you are crazy enough to crash the car anyways they usually stop holding you and look for a place to grab and then exit. Unless they were looking for the kill, in which case they would have already shot you or slit your throat.

In your example this may work depending upon the vehicle. A minivan or even a full truck or SUV with a bench seat or standard center console. But in a car with a center console the leaning over is restricted by your bending motion and the interference fit of the console and your body.

Now, I agree that many will do what they want to do. I am also not opposed to doing certain things that many people would not do as it is just not in their character or make up. So the idea of runnning at 20 miles an hour into a wall was rejected as most people are not willing to commit to that type of maneuver.

Yet, a release of the brake while steping on the pedal gives forward momentum of the vehicle but a backward momentum of the bodies in the car, and the brake decreases the forward momentum but also causes the bodies to change direction from backwards to forewards. You have broken their center if you react in time. Hence the quick launch with the quick jerk. Try it. And yes if you know you have a neck injury then do not do it. But then again most people with this type of injury would not be in a class for this type of training.

****************

Also Note: I went with the assumption that the person in the car was oblivious to the world until the encounter occurred. Otherwise opening the door into people, moving towards them to scare them back. (* This puts you into the attacker mode and could be liable, -- Once again things I am willing to do to survive. *)

Yes true but I guess I need to clarify when I say reach back to grab the hands around the throat... basically grabbing the fingers/hands and holding them while making that move forward (provided there is no interference from a high center console), in effect pulling them with you as you move forward. They'll either let go or they will be pulled out of their balance enough to allow you to make other escape movements.

(crap that didn't come out right either... )
 

Rich Parsons

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MA-Caver said:
Yes true but I guess I need to clarify when I say reach back to grab the hands around the throat... basically grabbing the fingers/hands and holding them while making that move forward (provided there is no interference from a high center console), in effect pulling them with you as you move forward. They'll either let go or they will be pulled out of their balance enough to allow you to make other escape movements.

(crap that didn't come out right either... )


Ralph et al,

I understand what you are saying and I think someone like myself and others who knows good finger locks and joint locks this could be done. Just remember while you are fumbling someone could be poking you in the eyes, and or covering your mouth. I know you are leaning forward to get away from them. I know it works if they are caught unaware by surprise. The brake manuever allows for you to create that surprise from my experience.

Yes the experience is with just people playing with me, but the more I struggled the tighter they would get. Yet just like a toe to the skin even when expected there is a reaction, and during the reaction there is a window of opportunity.

Like I said there are lots of ways to approach this, I was just giving what I recommended.
 

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When I was doing that peice for fox news, we covered some tactics that one could do if engaged in a car.

I'll see if I can get Bob to put the vid online. I have a couple of things to send him that could be extremely useful and helpful to MT if we got it up. So, lets see if I can get around too it by next week (feel free to get on my *** about this one... ;) )

Paul Janulis
 

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Some quick things to add to the discussion in the meantime, however...

When you approach problems like these, you have to deal with the most probable scenario's, and the most practical solutions first. This gives you a starting point and allows you to cover the most likely situations first in the most pragmatic way possible. You can get into more unlikely scenarios later if you would like, provided that they aren't completely speculative and out of the realm of possability.

In order to start with the most likely scenarios, you have to collect evidence of what is actually occuring when people are assaulted in a car. There may be other possible situations that you can think of in your head, but just because something is possible, that doesn't mean that it is actually happening in the manner of which you thought. You don't want to get into the pattern of coming up with solutions to problems that don't really exist (or rarely exist). This leads to speculative self-defense solutions at best.

So, here is an example of my process...

We start by breaking up these assaults into categories. I am sure that there are better terms for these, but we have impulsive spontanious incidents (road rage, guy gets out of his car and rushes yours; it was something spontatious in that you didn't foresee it and you have a short window of time to respond, and it was "impulsive" on the attacker part, in that he didn't plan to assault you specifically when he got in his car that day), planned spontanious incidents (old boyfriend was planning to assault you all day, and he catches you in your car at the parking garage after work and you have limited time to react), impulsive predictable incidents (road rage guy has gotten out of his car and just starts randomly yelling at bystanders. This was impulsive to him, but it is predictable to you that he is likely to assault you or another bystander, and you can therefore prepare), and planned predictable incidents (old boyfriend was planning to assault you all day, and is waiting for you in the parking garage. You see his car parked before you get to yours, so you have more time to decide your course of action).

Car assaults (I could say all assaults for that matter) fall into these 4 categories. Again, there are terms for these in certain circles; I am just going off the top of my head right now to get the basic ideas across.

What you want to be able to do as much as possible is reduce your chances of a spontanious incident from occuring. There is no magic technique here; when your sitting down in a car and your not driving away from the threat, you are vulnerable to various degrees. If the threat has the element of surprise to his advantage, especially if it is planned, you will be at a major disadvantage if you have to resort to physical skills to defend yourself.

So, you want to do things that will prevent the spontaious incident from occuring. Have someone walk you to your car if your ex boyfriend has indicated that he may try to hurt you. Look for pre-incident indicators. Glance in your backseat before you get in the car. Don't have your window rolled down and your door unlocked if someone has gotten out of their car and is acting erratic. Don't trap yourself, like pull into a parking area where you can get blocked in, if you've just been rear ended at night on a scarcely populated street. Etc., etc., etc. These things will prevent the need for any self-defense technique from the car. I would say that most car assaults can be prevented by taking simple and effective measures to prevent the spontatious incident.

Now, from the above categories and solutions, 99% of them will have nothing to do with martial technique. But from there we can get into that 1% of self-defense solutions that involve physical skills. Whether the skills are physical or not, when it comes to dealing with specific self-defense circumstances, I'll say again that we need to work off of what is probable, not possible.

For example, let's examine the situation of someone hiding in your backseat, awaiting ambush. What is the motivation for such a maneuver? It is either a quick assasination, or it is because they want something from you beside just your life (your keys and money, your body in terms of rape or kidnapping or torture, etc.). From this motivation, we can move through some likely scenarios depending on the possible victim.

But we can rule out unlikely scenarios as well, which would prevent us from coming up with solutions to problems that don't exist. So, going back to the "backseat ambush," there isn't a slew of serial backseat attackers that strike while people are driving. If you are driving, you are not likely to be attacked, because if you are killed or incapacitated then who will drive? Not only is this not happening statistically, but it doesn't make sense logically. So, "If I am driving down woodward and someone trys to garrote me with piano wire, I WOULD...." is really speculative. Now, someone may present a threat while you are driving in order to gain something else (like poke a gun into your side and tell you where you are going to take him, for example); although this is still unlikely statistically, this is at least more probable then the "highway garrote strikes again." Moving from this type of situation, you can put a reasonable fight plan together, as long as you have the understanding of the extreme disadvantage you are in that could have been prevented by simply being aware of preincident indicators in the first place.

To conclude, the point of this post is that there is a specific process of discovery and planning involved when it comes to assault prevention planning that rules out a lot of speculation and unpractical ideas very quickly. I am presenting some of that process (free of charge, aren't I nice? ;) ) on a forum, but there is more then one way to skin a cat here. When it comes to approaching problems like these, you want to have a process in place, I think, that will rule out improbable situations and solutions, and that will allow you to get into the crux of what is actually needed for self-defense by todays standards.

All for now. Hopefully my post has been somewhat helpful...

:)

Paul Janulis
 

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HKphooey said:
I did a quick search and did not see any threads on this subject. If I missed something, I apologize and please post any links.

Anyone teach any self-defense techniques designed to work while seat-belted in a car? I was toying with some real life applications/siuations and found those to be the most difficult.

I have come up with few sample situations:
  • Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
  • Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
  • Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
  • Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
I would assume some of the techniques could also be used by individuals in a wheel chair.

Please share your techniques or ideas on the subject.

Thanks!

What a co-inky dink. Check my recent posts describing being attacked from behind while seatbelted in a car. You know what I did? I covered my face with my forearms and I got out of the car. If I was prepared, hrmm. I would have covered my face sooner and got out of the car. If I was really prepared, I might have had the idea to claw a wrist and pull him out of the car with me, dragging his chest painfully accross the top of a seat or wrenching his joints painfully. If I was smart, I never would have allowed myself to be in a position where I couldn't see the bastard.
 

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HKphooey said:
Anyone teach any self-defense techniques designed to work while seat-belted in a car? I was toying with some real life applications/siuations and found those to be the most difficult.

I have come up with few sample situations:
  • Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
  • Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
  • Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
  • Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
I would assume some of the techniques could also be used by individuals in a wheel chair.

Please share your techniques or ideas on the subject.

Thanks!

In my early days of training, we fought in the class room, and occasionally trained out doors. However, we never did anything in cars or the like. The way I have taught for the past couple of decades is to cover any scenario possible, and put my students in those situations: In a car, in a bathroom, seated at a desk, etc. I have also taught students in wheel chairs, and those that use crutches. I currently teach a program for Law Enforcement, Security Officers, Anti-terrorist, and Executive Protection Agents.

There are many responses that could be used in the car. If you are a student interested in learning these types of skills, hopefully you have an instructor who can teach them to you. If you are an instructor looking to teach these things, hopefully you are under a Master Instructor who can guide you. I certainly am not going to share specifics of my program on the internet as I would prefer not to inform the "bad guys" of what they are up against if they encounter me, or one of my students. :supcool:

Good luck with your search for knowledge!
Chief Master D. J. Eisenhart
 
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HKphooey

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Thanks for the feedback so far!

In the event moving the car is not an option and you have taken the proper precautions, but still end up in a SD siutation. Do you have specific movements or techniques? I like the finger lock ideas presented so far.

Any other SD ideas?

Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
Since the shoulder strap portion of the seat belt you are somewhat free to dodge/move to your right side. Left hand goes into a standard pary block followed by a right wrist grab (right hang circling under left). Pull the attacker into a left back fist or tigerclaw to the eyes.
 

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HKphooey said:
I did a quick search and did not see any threads on this subject. If I missed something, I apologize and please post any links.

Anyone teach any self-defense techniques designed to work while seat-belted in a car? I was toying with some real life applications/siuations and found those to be the most difficult.

I have come up with few sample situations:
  • 1)Seat-belted in the front seat, attacker tries to punch you.
  • 2)Attacker opens the door to car-jack you (seat-belted).
  • 3)Attacker is hiding in the back seat and attempts rear choke or strangle.
  • 4)Attacker forces you into the back seat (with the intent of sexual assault).
I would assume some of the techniques could also be used by individuals in a wheel chair.

Please share your techniques or ideas on the subject.

Thanks!

1) I'd think that blocking/parrying the punch followed by a strike would be a good choice.

2) One method of prevention is to lock your doors as soon as you enter the car. However, if that did not happen, we can look at other options. Are their weapons involved? If so, the best choice would probably to give them the car. Then again, theres nothing saying they still won't shoot or stab you. If possible, resort to step 1...strike at the person the best you can, until you can escape. If the car is already running, if you can put it into gear and drive off, then do so. If the guy is crazy enough to still hang onto the car, then the results from that are his own fault.

3) I always make a point of keeping the windows up and doors locked when I'm not with the car. Checking around you car upon approach, as well as taking a quick look inside are things that should always be done. However, assuming those things were not done, making sure you can breath should be on the top of the list. If you can reach behind you, try to strike the person. Once free, exiting the car should be a priority.

4) Again, checking your surrounds upon approach to the car shouldn't be neglected. If the attack does happen though, do your best to fight back. Your typical stand up SD skills should come into play here.

Great thread Wayne!!:)

Mike
 
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HKphooey

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The situations I posted are actual events brought my attention by students and LEO. I personally have been in a situation (back in my younger, bar-going days) where a drunk person followed my out into the parking lot. I was already in the car with the window open. He came up to the car and put both hands on the door and started rambling. Luckily he was so drunk, simply opening the door very quickly caused his to lose his balance.

But afterwards, I remember feeling somewhat trapped. All that training on solid stances and body mechnics and I could not use my lower body. I know many Aikido practioners will train from their knees to perfect ther upper body mechanics.

Lately I have been thinking of the car situation and seated postions where you may be ambushed (or individuals in a wheelchair). I know sometimes these situations seem outside the norm, but the ones I have listed seem more common than some of the SD techniques I have learned in a basic curiculum. I have never had someone throw a kick/punch combination on the street, but there are numerous techniques for that attack.
 

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