Sacrifice

[green meanie]

I was having a discussion with my students one time and the conversation turned on to the topic of how many people have come through our doors over the years, and worked out with us, only to quit later on.

We're a very small outfit up here and most people hear about my place by word of mouth. So most come here already knowing what they're getting themselves into so it isn't the shock of what we're doing that scares people off. And many train for a few weeks, months, and even years before they suddenly decide that this isn't for them.

I've come to the conclusion that it isn't what we're doing that makes staying with this too hard, it's what practice time interferes with... what they have to give up... that makes training too difficult for them to continue. I wrapped up the conversation by saying the martial arts are about sacrifice, it's not what you have to do that makes the journey difficult, it's what you have to give up and let go of along that makes it hard.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Cirdan]

I wouldn`t exactly call it sacrifice. Dedication I think. If you want to do martial arts there is no way you can`t spare a few hours a week for this even if you have a busy scedule.

 

[Carol]

Prioritizing. MA doesn't have to be absolutely every single waking moment of your life, but you have to prioritize some amount of time to it.

 

[Flying Crane]

Depends on how you look at it. I personally don't see much in it that is a sacrifice. It is simply what I want, so it is what I do. I don't feel like I have given up something else to be able to train. Compared with my passion to train, other things pale. I wouldn't rather spend my training time in other ways.

If other obligations interfered with my ability to train, I would consider that a sacrifice.

 

[Flying Crane]

I wouldn`t exactly call it sacrifice. Dedication I think. If you want to do martial arts there is no way you can`t spare a few hours a week for this even if you have a busy scedule.

Yeah, turn off the damn TV after work, put on your workout clothes and start moving. It is so easy to get lulled into wasting time that could be so much better spent.

 

[stone_dragone]

Quoting Coach Couzo in "Best of the Best":

"We all have our priorities."

Its amazing how many brown belts and used-to-be-a-blackbelt's there are running around.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Remember we all have to live/work to survive. The first priorty is to your Family. 2nd to your work..which takes care of the family.

Martial arts can be 3,4,5,6, and so on. When you have children...this should take the highest priorty in your life...It is your job to raise them.

There is more to life than just martial arts, for some it is a hobby,part-time, in time you will know if you like it or not.

We live in world where street fighting is not that common...so martial arts do not become that important.

There are so many other things we all enjoy to....Fishing,Hunting,Diving,Hiking,and all sports included.

To be a TRUE martial artist...it must become your whole life....nothing else exists....train and practice...train and practice.....

Families always should be first. Your Job should be 2nd.....than whatever you want it to be...............Aloha

PS: Two kids in High School,one going to College next year. Have two jobs and train every Monday and Wednesdays.....Love to go Ulua fishing and camping at the beach......use to go often...lucky a few times a year....

 

[green meanie]

Its amazing how many brown belts and used-to-be-a-blackbelt's there are running around.

No doubt.

 

[MJS]

I was having a discussion with my students one time and the conversation turned on to the topic of how many people have come through our doors over the years, and worked out with us, only to quit later on.

We're a very small outfit up here and most people hear about my place by word of mouth. So most come here already knowing what they're getting themselves into so it isn't the shock of what we're doing that scares people off. And many train for a few weeks, months, and even years before they suddenly decide that this isn't for them.

I've come to the conclusion that it isn't what we're doing that makes staying with this too hard, it's what practice time interferes with... what they have to give up... that makes training too difficult for them to continue. I wrapped up the conversation by saying the martial arts are about sacrifice, it's not what you have to do that makes the journey difficult, it's what you have to give up and let go of along that makes it hard.

What are your thoughts on this?

I agree, alot of it comes down to the dedication that people have. Real life issues are things that pretty much everyone has. However, I think its important, especially, if the Martial Arts are something that you want to be a part of your life, that you find that equal balance.

When I first started training, I was still in school and held a PT job a few nights a week, so needless to say, I had quite a bit of training time. As time went on, and I entered into that real life phase, I found that my training time began to decrease, however, I still made time to get in a few days of training, rather than just give it up altogether.

Everyone has different goals and priorities when they begin their training. Some obviously find that their training goals are not as high as other things.

Mike

 

[tshadowchaser]

Family ( that includes having to work to support them),school, religion ( for some) all should take place before your practice.
Now having said that i admit that families will allow you the time i it is not all your time. Some even encourage you to practice.
It is that small amount of time that (as had been said) you normally watch v or go fishing or sew, etc that your martial arts bites into so you must decide what time you allow what, and what you are willing to do with out

 

[Myles_Lonell]

I have always felt that Martial Arts is more of a calling. It sounds kind of cheesy, but I believe that it takes a certain kind of person to stick with an MA program, and if you don't feel "pulled" to it, it's not for you. To me, things like MA feels spiritual. You can always find some kind of time to practice. Saying you can't is only an excuse. Call me crazy, but that is my opinion.

 

[Brother John]

I've come to the conclusion that it isn't what we're doing that makes staying with this too hard, it's what practice time interferes with... what they have to give up... that makes training too difficult for them to continue. I wrapped up the conversation by saying the martial arts are about sacrifice, it's not what you have to do that makes the journey difficult, it's what you have to give up and let go of along that makes it hard.

What are your thoughts on this?

Not everyone wants to, or will, pay the price.... but that'll never change the fact that doing well and growing in the martial arts will always come at a high price in personal sacrifice.
The thing is.... do the rewards warant the cost??

That's up to each person to decide, but each instructor or school owner/manager should scrutinize this sentiment and have their finger on it's pulse.
NOT that it'll lead them to change things much if any, but at least they'll have a better understanding of "WHY".

Your Brother
John

 

[Franc0]

I've lost more students to wives & girlfriends that complained they were spending too much time training, than any other reason.
IMO it's more a matter of making the time as opposed to making a sacrifice. To me, most long time MA'ists are doing it for the love, some for the money, but either way it eventually turns into a "way of life" simply through the amount of time invested, with the thought of sacrificing long gone. A persons outlook on things can determine whether their training contains sacrifices. For example, a married man with kids wants to start training. Now does he sacrifice time spent with the family to go train, or does he sign up the family to train along with him? A pessimist could comment that he's sacrificing the extra money it takes to include his family, while an optimist could say he's "making" quality time by including them in his training. When one of my students makes it to the higher levels (1 out of dozens) I usually give them the short speech commending them on the "hard work and sacrifice" it took to get there. By the time they get there, "sacrifice" is usually replaced by "way of life" in their minds.

Franco

 

[Drac]

Its amazing how many brown belts and used-to-be-a-blackbelt's there are running around.

Amen dragone..I constantly hear "I use to do that karate stuff" but I quit because I'm too old for all that now..These are guys in their late 30's early 40's..TOO OLD????

 

[MartialIntent]

I've come to the conclusion that it isn't what we're doing that makes staying with this too hard, it's what practice time interferes with... what they have to give up... that makes training too difficult for them to continue. I wrapped up the conversation by saying the martial arts are about sacrifice, it's not what you have to do that makes the journey difficult, it's what you have to give up and let go of along that makes it hard.

What are your thoughts on this?

Saying that it's about sacrifice is true to a point but I think the implication there is that by *not* making the sacrifice to continue, somehow these people are less committed. While that may be the case, in my experience, life gets in the way and as Carol has said already, it's about prioritization. For some folk their MA may claim a higher spot than taking their kids to various activities after school and for others it won't. And of course there are as many alternatives to MA and other priorities over MA as there are practitioners of the arts.

Be philosophical, if you're convinced that it's nothing to do with your school or club being able to maintain momentum and sustain motivation amongst the higher ranks, then a few other possibilities might be either that their lives got in the way of their ability to continue or simply that folk have different goals.

I mean, as trainers in such goal-driven times, we gotta ask ourselves the question: what am I doing to keep senior members challenged once they've reached BB status?

By way of analogy, some folk leave high school as soon as they can get work, some study further, go to college/university as a means to a "better" job perhaps, and some persist beyond that and do their masters and doctorates because firstly they enjoy the challenge of research and further study into their discipline and secondly because there's a chance they can make a name for themselves or give something back to the academic community they're a part of.

I think in some ways this is akin to striving for progress in MA - some folk just want basic skills and leave after they've picked up the minimum, some are striving [either consciously or subconsciously] for purple, brown or black belts or sashes and then others, having reached that stage seek not only continued further enlightenment for themselves but the chance to develop new things and pass on to others. In this case, we're neither questioning the instructor or school nor are we particularly talking about prioritization but rather that the reason folk stay for varying durations might simply be because everyone just has a different goal. That's not particularly clever or novel but perhaps soem food for thought, fwiw. Good luck.

Respects!

 

[painstain]

i see where sacrifice comes in. its not hard to train as a white belt wqhen it comes to motivation, but as you move up and more is expected from you it becomes more demanding. you get to a point where the instructor needs and uses you. maybe its to take some kids and work on their technique, or maybe taken som adults and working on self defense. perhaps every once in a while you call on one of your students to teach for you. all the sudden you need more time to train because your doing the other part of martial arts by helping. or maybe your moving to a new training ficility and you need help. so i need to give up my day in spirit of being where my instuctor needs me to be. volunteering at tests to spar just to be that much more tire when your test comes around. maybe bringing some water for everyone in class just to show support.

with respect,
painstain

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

i see where sacrifice comes in. its not hard to train as a white belt wqhen it comes to motivation, but as you move up and more is expected from you it becomes more demanding. you get to a point where the instructor needs and uses you. maybe its to take some kids and work on their technique, or maybe taken som adults and working on self defense. perhaps every once in a while you call on one of your students to teach for you. all the sudden you need more time to train because your doing the other part of martial arts by helping. or maybe your moving to a new training ficility and you need help. so i need to give up my day in spirit of being where my instuctor needs me to be. volunteering at tests to spar just to be that much more tire when your test comes around. maybe bringing some water for everyone in class just to show support.

with respect,
painstain

Yeah, I've been down those roads. It's a constant cycle in the arts but it's necessary for the arts to continue.

 

[Brother John]

I've lost more students to wives & girlfriends that complained they were spending too much time training, than any other reason.
IMO it's more a matter of making the time as opposed to making a sacrifice. To me, most long time MA'ists are doing it for the love, some for the money, but either way it eventually turns into a "way of life" simply through the amount of time invested, with the thought of sacrificing long gone. A persons outlook on things can determine whether their training contains sacrifices. For example, a married man with kids wants to start training. Now does he sacrifice time spent with the family to go train, or does he sign up the family to train along with him? A pessimist could comment that he's sacrificing the extra money it takes to include his family, while an optimist could say he's "making" quality time by including them in his training. When one of my students makes it to the higher levels (1 out of dozens) I usually give them the short speech commending them on the "hard work and sacrifice" it took to get there. By the time they get there, "sacrifice" is usually replaced by "way of life" in their minds.

Franco

OK...
but I'm a married man with a family, and my family doesn't want to do martial arts.
My son wants to do soccer, my daughter dance and my wife an aerobics class and we all have events at church...
so now what? I can't "include" them in my training, this path is not for everyone.
For me, martial arts IS a 'way of life', but there is still sacrifice. It is unavoidable. My family is THE most important thing in my life, but I do cut out some time each day to practice and then some time each week for classes.
HOW is that not sacrifice??

Sorry if I come off all peeved about your point of view, but it seems like you are saying that if I don't joyfully give my time to the martial arts and drag everyone along with me.....I'm not in it for the love of the arts or the "way".
Or....I have a 'wrong' attitude.
what gives?

Your Brother
John

 

[Fluffy]

I'm not going to wade through everyone else's answer here, I already have my view. So please excuse me if someone else has said this.

You are going through what most professional commercial clubs/schools went through in the 90's. Thanks to "The Karate Kid" "Teen age mutant Ninja Turtles" and "Power Rangers" we had an influx of kids. The kids could not handle the 'old school' mentality of macho training, so all had to make that choice - heavy style training, or lighter training with games.....

It matters what you want to do. If you want to grow, create a lighter class - if you want to stay the same (and there is nothing wrong with that) stay the same.

Good luck! And keep it fun!

 

[green meanie]

I'm not going to wade through everyone else's answer here, I already have my view. So please excuse me if someone else has said this.

You are going through what most professional commercial clubs/schools went through in the 90's. Thanks to "The Karate Kid" "Teen age mutant Ninja Turtles" and "Power Rangers" we had an influx of kids. The kids could not handle the 'old school' mentality of macho training, so all had to make that choice - heavy style training, or lighter training with games.....

It matters what you want to do. If you want to grow, create a lighter class - if you want to stay the same (and there is nothing wrong with that) stay the same.

Good luck! And keep it fun!

No offense but you missed the point. This isn't about me. I'm not running a commercial school. I'm not the least bit concerned or upset about my numbers. This is just a conversation I had with some of my students who have witnessed firsthand their friends falling by the wayside while they continue to drive on.

I run the classes the way I want them to run. The ones who want to be a part of this are here. The ones who don't, aren't. It's not a problem. This is just what I believed might be an interesting subject and just thought I would share. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :asian: