Rule's of self defense

[terryl965]

I have been told by a couple of people in TKD there are certain guidelines in self defense, since we have a mix batch of tkd'ers on this forum I would like to know your definition of TKD self defense. Mine would be let it all out and try to hurt the person so severly they would end up in the hospital wishing they where dead. I'am interested in the sport aspect people views on self defense since they really train on timing and movement to win there matches what is your training like for self defense and your philosophies appoach to it. I'm just curious and I'm looking for genuine answers not really trying to start up a controversy over sport versus tradition.
Thank you for your responses
Terry Lee Stoker

 

[Spookey]

Dear Sir,


Our dojang teaches two primary rules of self defense. They are not however implied to be "Rules of Taekwon-Do"...they are as follows:

1. Avoid the circumstances

2. Hit them first, hit them hard, and dont stop hitting until they can no longer pose a threat

Fairly basic and broad based, but realistic in application!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[TigerWoman]

I agree with Spookey--avoid or defend with whatever you need to do to get away. I wouldn't keep hitting the guy until he was almost dead though. I don't think that would read too well in court. Well, he was down and out of commission but you kept hitting him...

I would like more ground tactics, grappling or avoidance moves-using the other's body weight against him. I find it interesting my instructor has on the 3rd degree requirements for test, "black belt self-defense" but hasn't taught anything to a guy who is testing in July. Nor me, even though I asked what they were.

I also would prefer he teach teenagers self-defense-and actually require them to know all the ones the adults are required. It's too bad that I send both of my teens to college without them. TW

 

[bdparsons]

The issue here is not what your style or organization or even school thinks about self defense, but what the law says about it. Depending on where you live, the laws today can encompass a wide range of what's acceptable from a defender's standpoint and still be considered self defense. Most county courthouses have a copy of your state's penal code, it might make for some interesting reading. If you don't want to go that far, talk to your local law enforcement.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[FearlessFreep]

We talk a lot about avoidance, but also escalation. I don't like the "hit them until they are in the hospital wishing they were dead" approach. I think you really have to know your situation and respond accordingly. I mean, a drunk guy in a bar who takes offense at the team colors of your T-shirt and starts pushing you or something probably does not need to be beaten senseless to decide to leave you alone....but not all drunks are the same. I think some people will respond to a little pain and decide to back down, some won't and will need to be hit with much more pain or something incapacitating. I mean if you get in a street fight with some dude who thinks you stole is girlfriend...well..his motives and willingness to continue to try to attack you are different than the road rage case of someone who thinks you stole his parking space.

Has nothing to do with TKD but it's important to know not to go overboard. One thing MA teaches is how to stay relaxed and focused under pressure and I think it's important to use that to not over react

 

[searcher]

Mr. Parsons has brought up a good point about getting a copy of the local penal code and reading it through. What you are dealing with is called perceived threat. It is dealing with how you saw things before you defended yourself. Jim Wagner is an expert in the threat heirarchy, so you might want to look him up.

As for rules and guidelines, there really are any to speak of. Just remeber that once they go down you must try to get away. If they get up drop them again and try to get away. If you keep going at them you will be headed for some time behind bars. This may change if they are: armed, considerably larger than you, if you are a female and they are male, and so on.

Hope these help.

 

[Miles]

Mr. Parsons has brought up a good point about getting a copy of the local penal code and reading it through.

First the ubiquitous disclaimer: I have never practiced criminal law anywhere and I'm only licensed in Michigan.

I agree with Mr. Parson and Searcher that one must educate himself/herself as to the law of their particular State/Commonwealth.

But you won't find it fleshed out in the statutes/codes since the concept of self-defense is judge-based law ("common law"). You have to piece it together using what judges have interpreted is essentially excusable conduct (i.e. I had to harm him as he was about to harm me). If you have access to them either online (check out www.findlaw.com) or go to a good library, I suggest looking at the SJI or Standard Jury Instructions. These are what a Judge instructs a jury as to an issue such as self-defense. They are in laymen's terms, not legalese, and give you a good place to start.

Miles

 

[hardheadjarhead]

There are several very good older threads discussing self defense and the law. You might look them up.

I'll head this off: The old "It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" is NOT always the case. People often quote that and then advocate some very unwise methods for self defense. Not knowing your local and state laws could quite realistically ruin your life and give you a criminal record. Understand the "reasonable man" standard, the law concerning pre-emptive attacks, when you are required to retreat (if at all) and when you're required to stop your attack...among other things.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Gemini]

terryl965,

Being a practitioner of both SD and competition TKD, I found training from both to be very valuable. Competition sparring has taught me to Keep a clear mind and stay calm which is key to being able to respond with reasonable force. And yes, that has been unfortunalely put to the test, so it's not speculation. However, it's the SD side of my training that I would most likely rely on. Low kicks, holds, ground fighting and all the other things so many claim are not taught in TKD.

Having grown up in the 70's, knives where rare, guns even more so and self defence was then really a matter of beating your assailant until he couldn't get up. It really wasn't an option. I agreed with it for a long time, because that's the mind-set of the time I grew up.

Now being much older, I find that a very dangerous generalization. Having a family and responsibilities, it could easily be a very bad decision to rely on what I used to know.

Unfortunately, there are circumstances that are not so easily covered by reasonable force. In example, an individual that even if subdued once, will come back, and keep coming back. Such as a stalker. To me, reasonable force in such a situation is to disable him in a manor that he can no longer come back. Ever. It's a very grey area, but a real possibility. If you can prove your case to support your actions, you're fortunate. If not, hmm...

 

[Drac]

1. Avoid the circumstances
2. Hit them first, hit them hard, and dont stop hitting until they can no longer pose a threat

You mean there is more? It sounds complete to me..

 

[Spookey]

Dear Drac,


I obviously agree!

I do not like conflict or violence, furthermore I hate the necessity for violence in certain circumstances...however, if it is a choice between you and my family...HATE IT FOR YOU!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[searcher]

We will all have to decide when and if we will defend. Each one will have to weigh the pros and cons of how we defend. I just hope we are all ready when that time comes.

 

[Flamebearer]

Self defense as in getting out of wristgrabs, chokes, bearhugs:

1. Whatever your attacker has, take it away (such as your wrist or lapel) Usually this involves movement :ultracool

2. Make sure your stance is good.

3. Counterattack


Self-defense in three words
For just general self-defense, anytime, anywhere, anyone:

DON'T GET HIT​

-Flamebearer​

 

[Bushi40]

Sorry to mention, your instructor taught you incorrectly.

Yes. self defense is what it says, to defend your self but only to the extent of protecting your self or your loved ones and not to go beyond that point.

Example: I am fixing the battery in my car and someone comes up behind me and attacks me with a knife, I turn block, and punch him hard enough to knock him out, I have done just what I had to do and nothing more. The way you are thinking is, yes, you did the above, but, you also open the cap of the battery while he is knocked out and poored the acid down his throat. Bot the idea. It reaches a point of self ego, not a good thing inthe martial arts, lack of self confidense in your thinking and techniques. Sorry for bring honest.

Grand Master Gene Perceval
[email protected]

 

[terryl965]

Sorry to mention, your instructor taught you incorrectly.

Yes. self defense is what it says, to defend your self but only to the extent of protecting your self or your loved ones and not to go beyond that point.

Example: I am fixing the battery in my car and someone comes up behind me and attacks me with a knife, I turn block, and punch him hard enough to knock him out, I have done just what I had to do and nothing more. The way you are thinking is, yes, you did the above, but, you also open the cap of the battery while he is knocked out and poored the acid down his throat. Bot the idea. It reaches a point of self ego, not a good thing inthe martial arts, lack of self confidense in your thinking and techniques. Sorry for bring honest.

Grand Master Gene Perceval
[email protected]

Well lets go with your opinion here you would block and punch and nothing more sorry I find that hard to believe. I believe if I am being attack with a weapon than it is my opinion to release them from that weapon with force. Now no weapon probly like you said block and hit and then leave. No dis-respect toward you sir.

 

[Twin Fist]

TWIN FIST'S RULES FOR EFFECTIVE SELF DEFENSE (tm)


1-avoid what you can avoid
2-when you cant avoid, take action with no hesitation
3-stay on your feet when you can, if you cant, do ANYTHING to get them to let go, and get back on your feet
4-dont stop till they drop
5-ALWAYS assume they have a friend behind you

now, those rules are broad and loose for a reason, real life has no rules, and adaptation is essential.

anything that violates these rules is outside the realm of "effective self defense"

 

[Aikicomp]

I have been told by a couple of people in TKD there are certain guidelines in self defense, since we have a mix batch of tkd'ers on this forum I would like to know your definition of TKD self defense. Mine would be let it all out and try to hurt the person so severly they would end up in the hospital wishing they where dead. I'am interested in the sport aspect people views on self defense since they really train on timing and movement to win there matches what is your training like for self defense and your philosophies appoach to it. I'm just curious and I'm looking for genuine answers not really trying to start up a controversy over sport versus tradition.
Thank you for your responses
Terry Lee Stoker

I do not practice TKD. However, I do teach a strictly self-defense style of Ju-Jitsu and if you do not mind I'd like to add some thoughts.

1. Know the law as best as you can (as said by others)
2. Flee and/or avoid the confrontation if at all possible.
3. Do enough to stop the person from hurting you but, no more than that.
4. Get training in some sort of control techniques (if you already do not have it) it will give you the option of keeping the attacker safe and controlled and unable to "come back" at you untill police are called and/or arrive.

Self defense can be a tricky situation and every scenario is different so be prudent and use common sense in your response to an attack and do not forget the first rule of self-defense:

Be aware of your surroundings.

Michael

 

[Earl Weiss]

HMMM Think I saw an article on this
http://www.geocities.com/ustfregion5/commandments.html

For some good books on the topic get Peyton Quinn's "Real Fighting" and "the Bouncer's guide to barroom brawling "

He covers things like awareness, avoidance, de escalation, and setting the legal stage.

 

[Balrog]

There are no set-in-stone guidelines, but there are some good concepts.

1. When confronted, run away. Nobody ever got hurt by not fighting.
2. If you can't run, then attempt to defuse the situation.
3. If you can't defuse and have to fight, then don't be the first person to throw a technique, but definitely be the last one to.
4. Do it as peaceably as possible, but as forcefully as needed.
5. If the other guy pulls a weapon of any kind, all bets are off. Your life is now in danger, and you need to put him down hard and fast.

 

[Kacey]

My rules are similar to those already posted:

1) Don't get into a situation where you need to defend yourself
2) If you are in such a situation, run like Hell
3) If you can't run, do whatever you need to do to be able to run - then run.