Return of small Taekwondo

[IcemanSK]

I was just thinking of how things in society are cyclical. A thread on another board talked about how the fitness craze of the 80's ebbed & flowed. Some MA instructors got into that & lost their shirts & got out of that business.

It seems now that MA (not just TKD) is big. Full time instructors running several schools is the "ideal" business model. Adding this or that Art to what you already do, to make more profit. The MA market is saturrated with that type school.

In churches, there has been a shift from mega-churches to small intimate congregations. Some folks have felt they "get lost" in a big mega-church of the 80's & 90's to a church where "people can know me better."

I think the time is coming, although perhaps not yet here, when smaller schools based on traditional SD TKD will be more saught after than the big schools. A school where "I can learn the roots of the Art & my kid can learn discipline" without all that extra "stuff." The instructor teaches part time & enjoys doing so.

I picture a day when small, quality schools will be saught after again.

 

[terryl965]

The days are even closer than you think Ice, there have been a push very resently to bring back the true Art of TKD and get out of this fluff fluff. I for one will be glad for these when it come and will open my school and members to it. I hope that alot of people will look closely for these types of organization and veer away from all those money hungry places of today.

 

[IcemanSK]

The days are even closer than you think Ice, there have been a push very resently to bring back the true Art of TKD and get out of this fluff fluff. I for one will be glad for these when it come and will open my school and members to it. I hope that alot of people will look closely for these types of organization and veer away from all those money hungry places of today.

I hope that it spans across organizations: that any & every organization will have these types of schools within them. School owners will say, "I want to get back to teaching the roots of the Art."

We're on the same page. Perhaps it is starting to happen.

 

[terryl965]

I hope that it spans across organizations: that any & every organization will have these types of schools within them. School owners will say, "I want to get back to teaching the roots of the Art."

We're on the same page. Perhaps it is starting to happen.

Look into Stuart Anslow and his org. that is exactly what they are trying to do. For both ITF and WTF and KKW types of schools.

 

[IcemanSK]

Look into Stuart Anslow and his org. that is exactly what they are trying to do. For both ITF and WTF and KKW types of schools.

I'm happy where I am, but thanks!

 

[terryl965]

I'm happy where I am, but thanks!

Not asking you to change, but you brought the thread and you know GM Sells is not going to go back to anything small. He makes way to much money and so does all his people. Was just showing you other avenues that you might want to look into.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[IcemanSK]

Not asking you to change, but you brought the thread and you know GM Sells is not going to go back to anything small. He makes way to much money and so does all his people. Was just showing you other avenues that you might want to look into.

Have a wonderful day.

Actually, most of our schools are small. He encourages me to do what I'm doing the way I do it.

 

[terryl965]

Actually, most of our schools are small. He encourages me to do what I'm doing the way I do it.

Well that is great, I am behind anyone that is happy and you are happy. Keep teaching are future.

 

[exile]

I see several signs that we're on the cusp of a major change in the direction of what Iceman is calling 'small TKD'.

• The appearance of recent work on practical applications of TKD hyungs. This work important for two reasons: first of all, it reflects a growing dissent from the WTF vision of TKD as mostly Olympic sparring, probably the highest-profile representation of our art, and certainly the most profitable and profit-oriented. So a change in view of the nature of TKD is emerging. Second, it announces an approach which by its very nature cannot be done on a mass scale; it requires intense work and oversight by instructors working one on one, or in very small groups, to show how to develop and pressure-test realistic applications, something that goes completely against the 'large TKD' grain. While most of this work has been done by a small number of practitioners (most notably, Simon O'Neil and our own Stuart Anslow), more is sure to follow from other quarters as their point of view gains traction and followers.
  
  
• The emergence of proposals for new TKD organizations specifically dedicated to promotion of TKD as a CQ defense system. We have one incipient org of this kind announced for the first time on this very board, Stuart A's new group described here. There is a good deal of discussion that has been generated by this one announcement alone, and other proposals will likely emerge both here and elsewhere. The interest shown in Stuart's work by Iain Abernethy, linked to the British Combat Association and a major leader in the 'realistic MA' movement, is another expression of the same development. Again, this means small, intense classes and training methods.
  
  
• The nature of much of the discussion on MT itself, reflecting a primary commitment amongst many of us in the TKD community to 'old school' TKD—small, intense, practical, combat-focused. We're still decidedly in the minory, most likely, but the fact that there are so many of us at all suggest that a critical mass is building at the dojang level.

All of these factors suggest to me that the movement back to 'small', dojang-centered, SD-based TKD is already underway. As time goes by, it will become an increasingly important part of the TKD landscape—and about time!

 

[Nolerama]

I think the time is coming, although perhaps not yet here, when smaller schools based on traditional SD TKD will be more saught after than the big schools. A school where "I can learn the roots of the Art & my kid can learn discipline" without all that extra "stuff." The instructor teaches part time & enjoys doing so.

I picture a day when small, quality schools will be saught after again.

You're right.

It will happen. Smaller class sizes equals more personal attention and a stronger bond with the subject matter and instructor. Plain and simple. There's value in that.

 

[terryl965]

You're right.

It will happen. Smaller class sizes equals more personal attention and a stronger bond with the subject matter and instructor. Plain and simple. There's value in that.

Yes there is but how much are people really ready to pay.

 

[StuartA]

Sorry, I totally disagree. Whilst there will be smaller schools that go more in-depth and sought out by some the almighty $$$ will always rule.. after all money talks - thats a fact.

With that in mind, I do believe the more traditional and martial focus schools will grow.. but maybe TKD is just too far gone to turn the tables around fully.. as much as I would wish it to be so. Still, it really is time for people to put there money were there mouth is and start to walk the walk.

As an instructor, my priority is to my students.. if we are the last club on the planet doing what we do.. then so be it. I am trying to reach out.. but if it goes no-where I wont be sad because I know I tried to do the best for my studnets and for what I believe is true TKD.

Stuart

 

[YoungMan]

What I see happening:

Yes, Taekwondo will change. I see the Kukkiwon as collapsing after Mr. Uhm steps down, and the Kwans reasserting themselves.

However, I do not see the rise of small schools. In our information age, and human nature being what it is, politics will still come into play. Schools will not become small and intimate. They will still network and become part of larger organizations. Instead of Kukkiwon and WTF affiliated schools, these networks will remain independent or be affiliated with their respective Kwans. Now, whether there will be a single kwan headquarters or various Kwan organizations remains to be seen. I also see many schools fading away as their curriculums, based on the Olympics, become irrelevant.

I personally have no problem with this. I would love to see a re-emergence of Kwan rivalry such as in Korea 50 years ago. The result will be schools proclaiming their Kwan affiliation much like they did Kukkiwon or WTF affiliation in the past. However, school size will not change.

 

[IcemanSK]

In the same way that the mega-churches are still around, there will still be big schools with a big feel to them. There will always be folks with a "bigger is better" consumer thought process. I think YM has a good point above. A Neo-Kwan based TKD might be the next wave. Let's just hope that that too doesn't get turned into Disneyland.

 

[Brad Dunne]

There already exists a proliferation of TKD organizations, which individual schools/instructors teach what they want to teach. The Kukkiwon offers a general minimum format, of which the school/instructor is free to enhance as they see fit. So my impression is that folks want a Kukkiwon type of organization, that has SD as the focal point of training. Again, there are organizations already out there, that are offering this venue. They act in essence, just as the Kukkiwon acts and that being the role of BB/Dan certificate issuance and registration. But, the action of what is being taught is still up to the individual school/instructor. So in the long run, I guess it really dosen't matter to who or what you choose to align with, it just matters how and what you teach.

 

[StuartA]

There already exists a proliferation of TKD organizations, which individual schools/instructors teach what they want to teach. The Kukkiwon offers a general minimum format, of which the school/instructor is free to enhance as they see fit.

TBH Brad, I think that is the problem.. the minimums required become all that is required and lots of stuff that in an ideal world should get taught, is lost.

So my impression is that folks want a Kukkiwon type of organization, that has SD as the focal point of training.

Yes.. WTF'ers that is! Ch'ang Hon types arnt bothered about KKW, in fact, most of the solo clubs I know arnt bothered about the ITF either!

Again, there are organizations already out there, that are offering this venue.

Please clarify. Do you mean the 'minimum requirements.. add the extra yourself' senerio or ones that require more as standard? I know quite a few schools that do this (add to the curriculium to make it more rounded)... however, there is nothing except the school instructor to maintain these levels.. until now that is!

So in the long run, I guess it really dosen't matter to who or what you choose to align with, it just matters how and what you teach.

That is true in a way, as an instructors 1st responsibility should eb his students.. however, accountability keeps the standards high.. its one of the reasons I still have a panel for gradings, made up of outside examiners.. keep the bar high and students/instrucors/clubs will raise to it.. make it low and expect instructors to do the rest sees standard drop as only a few actually take that notion on board.

Stuart

 

[newGuy12]

it just matters how and what you teach.

Hear, hear!

Also, what is the problem with large class sizes from time to time? In and of itself, there are pluses and minuses to that. A large number of partners to choose from, with varying body types, and skill levels can add much to an experience, in my opinion.

Regarding curriculum, which is the REAL matter at hand, the vital resources (Abernethy / Anslow and others of the British Combat Association's ilk) are already accessible. Its only a matter of time until some 3rd or 4th Degree decides to make the trip to England, spend a year or so, and then come back and "go for it" whole hog. After that, its only a matter of "critical mass".

How long until the United States breaks out of its lethargy and "gets a clue"? Your bet is as good as mine.

 

[britcanbulldogtkd]

I would love the idea of small or the return of but there is a saying that money talks and BS walks
Todays society dictates that money rules the roost As an instructor when living in the UK I had to pay money out for public liabilty (In case I was sued for an injury to a student) We train a physical martial art there is always going to be a risk of injury and students / parents should know that when signing up
Since moving to canadan and returning to Taekwondo after a 5 year lay off I am shocked at the big club idea of paying everything up front I loved it when i could pay when i trained and the money wasnt the main thing cos all the the instructors did it part time and if they made a few quid (pounds) from it all well and good
I dont instruct to make millions i instruct cos i want too pass on the knowledge i have learned to people who also want to learn
Please call me naieve but maybe the return of the small and all the large organisations returning to the roots of the martial arts instead of finding sponsorship with the big manufacturers may initiate a turning back to the traditions of taekwondo and the tennant ettiquette modesty, persevernce,self control and indomitable spirit as opposed to profit, building, membership, sponsorship and contracts

This is my first day on the site and yes i do have some wierd opinions and thoughts

great discussions

 

[terryl965]

I would love the idea of small or the return of but there is a saying that money talks and BS walks
Todays society dictates that money rules the roost As an instructor when living in the UK I had to pay money out for public liabilty (In case I was sued for an injury to a student) We train a physical martial art there is always going to be a risk of injury and students / parents should know that when signing up
Since moving to canadan and returning to Taekwondo after a 5 year lay off I am shocked at the big club idea of paying everything up front I loved it when i could pay when i trained and the money wasnt the main thing cos all the the instructors did it part time and if they made a few quid (pounds) from it all well and good
I dont instruct to make millions i instruct cos i want too pass on the knowledge i have learned to people who also want to learn
Please call me naieve but maybe the return of the small and all the large organisations returning to the roots of the martial arts instead of finding sponsorship with the big manufacturers may initiate a turning back to the traditions of taekwondo and the tennant ettiquette modesty, persevernce,self control and indomitable spirit as opposed to profit, building, membership, sponsorship and contracts

This is my first day on the site and yes i do have some wierd opinions and thoughts

great discussions

No actually you have some wonderful views.

 

[YoungMan]

What will also happen with the scenario I described is that black belts will mean something again. Rather than the Kukkiwon serving as an anonymous clearinghouse for black belt certification, a re-emergence of kwan-based schools will mean that it will no longer be possible for any schlub to send in his applications for certification.
The way it works now is: I and another person might be Kukkiwon certified, with two totally different levels of technique and credibility. The Kukkiwon doesn't care.
If TKD reverts back to smaller, Kwan-based format, who your Instructor is certainly will matter, because now it will be much easier to know who the Instructors and their teaching styles are. You won't be able to hide behind anonymous Kukkiwon certification. Then, not all black belt certificates will be equal.