Religion vs Religion

[DeLamar.J]

Here is a article about satanism and how they are to deal with the christian faith. Very interesting stuff, I posted something like this in the philosophy forum but I decided to move the discussion here because it seems more fitting for the study.
What I get from this article is basicly, let people belive what they want and leave it alone because your not going to get anywhere. But I would love a discussion on this Yin and Yang of religion. Were is there a better place to debate than on the forums where there is no risk of a fist fight? Well, here is the satanist point of view.....

BASIC TEACHINGS OR BELIEFS: The Church of Satan worships Satan, most clearly symbolized in the Roman God Lucifer, the bearer of light, the spirit of the air, and the personification of enlightenment. Satan is not visualized as an anthropomorphic being, rather he represents the forces of nature. To the Satanist, the self is the highest embodiment of human life and is sacred. The Church of Satan is essentially a human potential movement, and members are encouraged to develop whatever capabilities they can by which they might excel. They are, however, cautioned to recognize their limitations - an important factor in this philosophy of rational self-interest. Satanists practice magick, the art of changing situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be impossible.

I occasionally get letters from people asking me how best to deal with Christians—although from time to time other groups will be named, most similar to Christians in some sense or other. Perhaps the best answer is to deal with them as briefly, and as infrequently, as possible. However, this answer is seldom considered satisfactory by these inquirers. What follows are a few thoughts on the subject.

Some people want to know: “How can you convince these people that they are wrong and you are right?” My first thought is, “Who cares?” Such debates generally go nowhere. If this is something that you feel is really important, all you can do is set your facts and evidences forth. If your audience is like most Christians, you will accomplish little or, more likely, nothing by doing so. To a Christian, the only “facts” that matter are found between the covers of a Bible. You cannot reason with people who believe that their God has exalted the foolish and chooses to work through miracles. Ask yourself this question: “Why am I so concerned with what this idiot thinks of me and my beliefs and ideas?”

Others ask how best to win Christians over to our side. I normally respond to such a question with one of my own: “Who wants them?” Let’s pretend for a moment that you were actually able to convince this Christian halfwit that Satanism is the way to go—what then? I’ll tell you what. Before long the misguided fool will be looking, for a cat, goat, or baby to sacrifice to Satan—his “personal savior” who has now replaced Jesus. Why? Because he won’t accept our definition of Satanism; he’ll look to what his former Christian brethren define as Satanism. These people can’t understand Satanism, are plainly unsuited to a Satanic philosophy of life, and introducing them to one isn’t going to make things better for anybody. There are few things worse than a Christian who decides to devote himself to “sin and wickedness.” They will become pointlessly destructive and will wind up making a horrible mess of everything with which they come in contact. You think that they are a nuisance as Christians? Try and “convert” them all to “Satanism,” then you’ll find out what *******s they can be when they really try. As Christians, they are usually feeble and ineffectual enough. It’s best to let sleeping lambs lie, but persistently annoying lambs can make good “lamb chops.” More on that later.

Some of my inquirers want to know how they can convince Christians that we are really nice people. Answer: You can’t. If you are a Satanist, then by Christian standards, you are not a nice person. The mere fact that you choose to identify with what they perceive as the source of “Ultimate Evil” tells them that you are not nice. Learn to live with it. Again, why do you care about what they think of you? Are they people you know well? If so, they ought to be able to decide from direct experience whether you are a nice guy. If they would think that you are nice enough, except for that awful name you stick on yourself, then they are obviously not worth your time. Let’s face facts here. You are not going to be popular with Christians if you call yourself a Satanist. Why would anyone think otherwise?

What many of these questioners fail to take into account is that it isn’t just a question of freedom of choice. Truly committed Christians, and I’m not talking about nominal Christians or social Christians here, cannot be other than what they are. You’ve all heard the old saw about describing red to a person with color blindness—it can’t be done. It’s the same with trying to gain acceptance from a true Christian. Nominal and social Christians can be won over to some degree, because their dedication to Christianity (and thus commitment to hating its “enemies”) is far more tenuous, being born out of laziness, habit, or social convention. But I can’t really see why anybody would want to devote the time and energy needed to accomplish such a pointless task. Still, if you’ve got the time to kill, then you are certainly free to try.

Some have written, wondering how best to attack them. I have decided that the best weapon to use against this rabble is a sense of humor. Normally, a Christian so dedicated to his religion that he will accost you about yours regards it as some sort of sacred duty. He treats it as something very solemn and sacred. If you try to debate with him you will get nowhere. In fact, if you argue it will tell him that you regard his childish superstitions as something to be taken seriously, thus puffing him up even more. On the other hand, if you sneer, mock, or laugh at him, show him that you find his beliefs to be too ludicrous to possibly debate seriously, then he will flee the field in search of a more “serious” opponent. Meaning: he wants one who will play along and give him the opportunity to see himself as a sort of crusader for God and all things righteous, one who will validate him. I’d rather not play their game. One definition of “roast” is to severely ridicule. As I said earlier, if a “lamb of God” gets out of line, make “roasted lamb chops.”

The trouble is, most of those who are writing to me are so grimly solemn and serious about their “Satanic cause” that they have little sense of humor about it. They take Christianity seriously because they mistakenly see about them a vast cosmic struggle of “Good vs. Evil.” Now, while I would definitely agree that the Christians and their ilk have done a truly impressive job of messing things up, and they continue to be a nuisance at times, this certainly does not mean that you should take them seriously. Give serious consideration on how best to deal with the problems they cause and have caused, but you certainly should not play into their hands and boost their already inflated sense of self-importance by treating these ignoramuses and their idiotic beliefs seriously.

 

[Satt]

I normally don't post on religious issues, but oh well. I honestly believe that a "true Christian" would love Satanists just like anyone else. I believe that Jesus (In whom Christians are supposed to believe) would rather spend time with a Satanist that a fellow believer in the Christian God. It is sad that so many people have made a bad name for Christianity. I remember when I was a teenager, this old guy in the mall screamed at me from accross the walkway and said "you are going to hell unless you cut off that long hair!!!" I mean, come on, what the hell is that??? People get tied up in some really retarded issues, but Christianity is SUPPOSED to be about unconditional love. I remember reading a scripture in the Christian bible where it says to be "unobtrusive as a dove." I don't see the reason so many Christians feel they need to "shove their beliefs down others throughts" If someone honestly wants to hear about it, then be prepared to give an honest answer, but pushing people just pushes them away. That was a good article. :asian:

 

[DeLamar.J]

Also, here is anotherone from a satanic high priestess,



I see a red door, and I want to paint it black. I’m one of the things that goes “bump!” in the night. I’m a born Satanist. I’m a happy little blob of custard and you can’t nail me to any wall; in fact, I’d pull those nails out and aim them at you. Tell me how negative I am; tell me how I’m filled with hate. You’re not just stupid—you’re wrong.

Dracula loved his brides. Dr. Frankenstein loved his monster. My Satanic love burns fiercely; it’s perfect and uncompromising.

Firstly, necessarily, I love myself. I’m my own God, after all, and I put no Gods before Me. I’m uppermost in my mind; I always bring me flowers. Sometimes I realize I could have done something better; sometimes I make mistakes. It’s wonderful how I learn from these things; it’s exciting to have an opportunity to be an even better Me. Even when I deny myself something, withhold gratification, it’s always in order to enjoy something even more fulfilling and worthwhile down the road. This is why I can hate so purely, so irrevocably, anything that wastes my precious time, energy and attention.

Along with Me, I love He Who Is Not Me, my husband. He is, for one thing, the consciousness in which I can see a wonderful reflection of my own God, myself. His love for me qualifies him with the very best of taste and discernment, after all; he obviously knows what’s good for him. My cells respond to his pheromones, and being around him gives me a heightened feeling of happiness, contentment and well-being. The shape of his face is the dearest sight in the world to me. He is my mentor, my master, my very best friend; I have placed with him my perfect trust, and he accepts it as only a real man can. His hopes, dreams, goals are mine; his disappointments are mine, too, and thusly I hate whatever distresses him or gets in his way. This hate, too, is black and pure, like gunpowder; it can burn as brightly and as feverishly as my love.

Next, I love my tribe, my folk, those who are like as me. They can be friends or family, but in my heart they are simply my tribe, and the Black Flame burns within all of them. They light my days and bring me joy through their achievements and antics; they make the world a more interesting place, and only a Satanist knows what a gift that is. Sometimes they are close enough to share food or warmth or simply company; sometimes they are far away, voices on phone lines, words on a page. But they’re always in here, part of me, my folk. I cannot feel indifferent toward those who would distress my tribe. He who attacks them attacks Me; he who places obstacles in their way earns my ire, my enmity, my hate.

As a natural-born Satanist, I’m joyfully free of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic bias against non-human animals, and so have never questioned that what I feel and have felt for my pets is pure and simple love. I love them more than I love many people; I value their lives more highly. The Black Flame of Satan burns dark and soft in animals, at its purest and deepest. I bristle and chafe at the laws that give destructive, unwanted, horrid little children more rights than my dog has. She is my property, and I can only protect her as such. A product of a thousand generations of breeding for domestication, for compatibility with humans, she is nevertheless only a hair’s-breadth away from wild. As highly as I treasure her life, so deeply does my hate run for those who would be cruel to her. I bare my fangs at them.

I love everything that belongs to me, all my stuff. I love my books, my music, my pretty china, my coffee machine, my raincoat, my old, soft green blouse. I hate anybody who would steal, destroy or disorder my precious stuff; why wouldn’t I? What value could such a creep have that would exceed that of my heavy stoneware mug, my perfect leather bag?

Contingent on all of this, I love the world. It’s so beautiful, so perfect a setting for my God, Me. I love mountains, the sea, acres of trees without a single house, rows of houses all antique and charming, museums, fog, delicious nourishment, quiet afternoons, star-filled nights. If only there weren’t all these anti-life bastards who want to **** it all up, who hate themselves so much they have to destroy the source of their own sustenance. I hate them. Only in the depths of the Black Flame in my heart is it known how much I hate them and what they’ve done to the world, these library-burners, these child-molesters, these people who, as Charlie said, kill things that are better than they are. When they ask why we hate Christians, can they ever really understand the answer unless they love as we do, love with the dark, Satanic love of life and self?

 

[DarrenJew]

I dad always taught me. Don't discuss religon, politics, and which martial arts style is better.

 

[Ceicei]

I dad always taught me. Don't discuss religon, politics, and which martial arts style is better.

Good advice, especially considering that these three issues invoke strong opinions/emotions with some people.

- Ceicei

 

[DeLamar.J]

Thats a good thing to live by in person, unless your around people who can have a mature conversation and respect each other when its over. But on the internet, you dont have to worry about a fight, you can discuss intelligently and learn something instead of staying away from that type of conversation which is so important. Its good to hear the viewpoints of others, you may even be a changed man afterwards.
It is good to have your moral beliefs, but DONT close your mind, stop questioning things, and comparing. You get the most out of life that way. You learn more instead of just rejecting another way, take what you can from it and move on. For instance I took what I could from TKD and then moved on, some wont even try it because they have it set in there mind it is useless, and it is there BIG loss with that type of attitude.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I dad always taught me. Don't discuss religon, politics, and which martial arts style is better.

So then why did you register on this forum, or more specifically respond to a thread located in The Study?

 

[7starmantis]

Also, here is anotherone from a satanic high priestess,



I see a red door, and I want to paint it black. I’m one of the things that goes “bump!” in the night. I’m a born Satanist. I’m a happy little blob of custard and you can’t nail me to any wall; in fact, I’d pull those nails out and aim them at you. Tell me how negative I am; tell me how I’m filled with hate. You’re not just stupid—you’re wrong.

Dracula loved his brides. Dr. Frankenstein loved his monster. My Satanic love burns fiercely; it’s perfect and uncompromising.

Firstly, necessarily, I love myself. I’m my own God, after all, and I put no Gods before Me. I’m uppermost in my mind; I always bring me flowers. Sometimes I realize I could have done something better; sometimes I make mistakes. It’s wonderful how I learn from these things; it’s exciting to have an opportunity to be an even better Me. Even when I deny myself something, withhold gratification, it’s always in order to enjoy something even more fulfilling and worthwhile down the road. This is why I can hate so purely, so irrevocably, anything that wastes my precious time, energy and attention.

Along with Me, I love He Who Is Not Me, my husband. He is, for one thing, the consciousness in which I can see a wonderful reflection of my own God, myself. His love for me qualifies him with the very best of taste and discernment, after all; he obviously knows what’s good for him. My cells respond to his pheromones, and being around him gives me a heightened feeling of happiness, contentment and well-being. The shape of his face is the dearest sight in the world to me. He is my mentor, my master, my very best friend; I have placed with him my perfect trust, and he accepts it as only a real man can. His hopes, dreams, goals are mine; his disappointments are mine, too, and thusly I hate whatever distresses him or gets in his way. This hate, too, is black and pure, like gunpowder; it can burn as brightly and as feverishly as my love.

Next, I love my tribe, my folk, those who are like as me. They can be friends or family, but in my heart they are simply my tribe, and the Black Flame burns within all of them. They light my days and bring me joy through their achievements and antics; they make the world a more interesting place, and only a Satanist knows what a gift that is. Sometimes they are close enough to share food or warmth or simply company; sometimes they are far away, voices on phone lines, words on a page. But they’re always in here, part of me, my folk. I cannot feel indifferent toward those who would distress my tribe. He who attacks them attacks Me; he who places obstacles in their way earns my ire, my enmity, my hate.

As a natural-born Satanist, I’m joyfully free of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic bias against non-human animals, and so have never questioned that what I feel and have felt for my pets is pure and simple love. I love them more than I love many people; I value their lives more highly. The Black Flame of Satan burns dark and soft in animals, at its purest and deepest. I bristle and chafe at the laws that give destructive, unwanted, horrid little children more rights than my dog has. She is my property, and I can only protect her as such. A product of a thousand generations of breeding for domestication, for compatibility with humans, she is nevertheless only a hair’s-breadth away from wild. As highly as I treasure her life, so deeply does my hate run for those who would be cruel to her. I bare my fangs at them.

I love everything that belongs to me, all my stuff. I love my books, my music, my pretty china, my coffee machine, my raincoat, my old, soft green blouse. I hate anybody who would steal, destroy or disorder my precious stuff; why wouldn’t I? What value could such a creep have that would exceed that of my heavy stoneware mug, my perfect leather bag?

Contingent on all of this, I love the world. It’s so beautiful, so perfect a setting for my God, Me. I love mountains, the sea, acres of trees without a single house, rows of houses all antique and charming, museums, fog, delicious nourishment, quiet afternoons, star-filled nights. If only there weren’t all these anti-life bastards who want to **** it all up, who hate themselves so much they have to destroy the source of their own sustenance. I hate them. Only in the depths of the Black Flame in my heart is it known how much I hate them and what they’ve done to the world, these library-burners, these child-molesters, these people who, as Charlie said, kill things that are better than they are. When they ask why we hate Christians, can they ever really understand the answer unless they love as we do, love with the dark, Satanic love of life and self?

Thats awesome, I dated this chick in college once who had a really bad trip on acid, and to counter it she ate quite a bit of extacy, she said that same thing almost verbatum. :idunno:


7sm