Rank Promotion Method

[ArmorOfGod]

I was reading an article at 24fightingchickens.com and it told of one school that uses recycled belts to create a sense of community. On rank promotion days, the instructor promotes the highest rank, then passes that belt down to the next student and so on.
Would that work or be too much trouble? Would it create that sense of community? Would enough of your students be the same belt size for it to work? Would too many want to keep their old belts as keepsakes to make it fun for everyone?
Interestingly, the author of that article thinks it is a bad idea, although didn't really cover why he thought so.
What does everyone here think?

AoG

 

[terryl965]

I do not like it at all, too many people can get sick from other people germs. Plus I have all my belts from day one some may never ever be tied because they will fall a part.

 

[Kacey]

I have seen classes where some people choose to pass down a belt - in those classes, it is one of several things:

- the belt is a sign of unusual competence, such as high test score at a particular rank; these are usually "class" belts. I know of one class that had passed a particular red belt down so many times it was faded to a pale red that was almost pink.

- the person giving the belt is taking the junior student as someone to mentor; these are usually personal belts

- the person giving the belt is demonstrating a strong sign of esteem for the person it is given to; this is usually from a high senior - for example, my sahbum's sahbum gave him his own VII Dan belt when my sahbum was promoted to VII Dan.

I've never seen the type of situation you describe, where the belts are recycled in that fashion. Whether it would work or not would depend on the atmosphere of the class - if that is the norm in the class, and expected, I wouldn't see any problems with it, I guess, but like Terry, I have all of my old belts. There are certain circumstances in which I would pass a belt on to a particular student, and I've considered it a few times, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[thesandman]

I have passed down belts before, but as described only in a ceremonial fashion to show great esteem and respect. For instance, the first student I trainded all the way from white belt to black belt received my 1st degree black belt. It was a symbol not only of my great respect for his accomplishment, but one of evolution of my own training.

I think using it as a general practice could turn into a logistics nightmare and not allow for people displaying their belts at home (which I think most people enjoy) or for the possiblity of a special hand down.

 

[Grenadier]

In general, no.

Belts for kyu / gup ranks are usually only going to be worn for a short time, and are lower quality than the nicer black belts made by companies such as Tokaido, Shureido, etc. If the cheaper belts were to be passed down from one person to another, they'd fall apart.

Also, different people are going to be of different heights, weights, girths, etc. It simply makes no sense to hand down a belt, when you could go through your wholesale account and buy a belt for just a few dollars.

Now, for a Dan rank belt, that's a different story. Most black belts want to have a nicer belt, instead of the flimsy cloth ones, and will pay the $$$ to get a high quality belt (EOS, Tokaido, etc). These are the kinds that can last for many years, and I've seen them handed down to other black belts as a gift.

For the amount you pay for one of them (Tokaido ones cost around 35-40), they'd BETTER last...

 

[YoungMan]

We used to do something like that. After a testing, each person who tested gave their belt to the person who came after them and was now the rank they used to be. I'm not sure if anyone does that anymore. Aside from being unsanitary, it doesn't make it your belt. Why pay the testing fee just to get someone else's belt. I could see it if money was an issue, but the belts are, like, $5 each , it really shouldn't be.

We NEVER did it with black belts. Your black belt has your name on it in Hangul and is your belt. You can't give it to someone else because it is personalized to you.

 

[kwaichang]

I was reading an article at 24fightingchickens.com and it told of one school that uses recycled belts to create a sense of community. On rank promotion days, the instructor promotes the highest rank, then passes that belt down to the next student and so on.
Would that work or be too much trouble? Would it create that sense of community? Would enough of your students be the same belt size for it to work? Would too many want to keep their old belts as keepsakes to make it fun for everyone?
Interestingly, the author of that article thinks it is a bad idea, although didn't really cover why he thought so.
What does everyone here think?
AoG

While I respect a persons right to run their school as they see; this has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in my life. Sorry.

 

[Fiendlover]

I do not like it at all, too many people can get sick from other people germs. Plus I have all my belts from day one some may never ever be tied because they will fall a part.

i agree but not only because of health problems but because you earned those belts and they're yours. they are as much a part of you as an arm. you deserved them and therefore they are a keepsake, a vaulable. i would never surrender any of my belts not even my white belt to anyone.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Personally, I don't like it. Belts, to me, symbolize my foundation and what I've learned. I would want to keep mine as that reminder of the foundation of my training as I progress. However, that's a personal opinion and if others find it to be community building, that's fine.

As for germs, I wouldn't be worried about that so much. But, I'm one who will wash my sash and I know people who feel washing their sash, or belt, is taboo.

To each his own, no?

 

[IcemanSK]

I agree with those who don't like the idea for all the reasons mentioned (health concerns, personal achievement, etc). At Dan rank, I could see meaning behind an instructor giving a beloved student her/his own belt as a sign of honoring & a connection with the student. At gup/kyu ranks, I think it would have a negative effect.

 

[MBuzzy]

I'm with the "bad idea" school of thought.

I have all of my belts except my white belt. The first one was passed on to the next new student, the next one went to another new student. After every iteration, I kept buying a new one....for some silly reason....I suppose just to have one....and it keeps getting handed off. I am in between white belts right now.

Personnally I put too much meaning into a belt that you have earned to ever want to pass it along, in fact, at this point, I would be a bit insulted if my instructor ever asked me to hand off my belt. Everytime I've done it, it has been to help out.

 

[Sukerkin]

Do your schools not give certificates for the ranks you earn? Do people really display their belts? .

I'm wondering if this is a trans-Atlantic cultural scism because such reverence for martial arts belts is certainly not a characterstic we see over here (other than TKD schools, which sadly are mostly Pyramid Money-Makers/Child Care and near-cousins of McDojo's).

Perhaps it's because of the art I practise that I have such an incredulous response.

The sword arts simply do not make use of 'badges' of rank - your apparent skill is largely your 'belt'. Having previously practised an art where belts were used and seen the 'politics' that surrounds them, I'm glad I'm out of it.

Shun 'Belt Fascism' - the cloth doesn't make the artist. I don't have any of the belts from my Kung Fu days and until this thread I never gave it a second thought.

 

[MarkBarlow]

In Akayama Ryu Jujutsu, when a person earns their shodan, their sensei gives them the black belt they are wearing at the ceremony. Often, an instructor will wear an obi for a month or two to break it in a bit before passing it on rather than giving up an obi they are comfortable with. I know how much it meant to me when my Sensei gave me his black belt and I hope the new yudansha feel the same.

 

[MBuzzy]

Do your schools not give certificates for the ranks you earn? Do people really display their belts? .

I'm wondering if this is a trans-Atlantic cultural scism because such reverence for martial arts belts is certainly not a characterstic we see over here (other than TKD schools, which sadly are mostly Pyramid Money-Makers/Child Care and near-cousins of McDojo's).

Perhaps it's because of the art I practise that I have such an incredulous response.

The sword arts simply do not make use of 'badges' of rank - your apparent skill is largely your 'belt'. Having previously practised an art where belts were used and seen the 'politics' that surrounds them, I'm glad I'm out of it.

Shun 'Belt Fascism' - the cloth doesn't make the artist. I don't have any of the belts from my Kung Fu days and until this thread I never gave it a second thought.

You are completely right that a belt is nothing more than a piece of cloth. In fact, even a rank doesn't mean too much when compared to actual skill, imo.

At least in my style, we do get certificates as well as belts. Many people do display their belts also, in fact, my instructor displays all of his previous belts in our Dojang. I personally think it is a good display of his progession through the ranks and a reminder that he was once lower ranking as well. Personally, I'm proud of all of my previous belts. Some of them were custom made for me in Korea by my instructor, so I tend to put some weight on that - and will probably display my belts if I ever own a school.

 

[Sukerkin]

Personally, I'm proud of all of my previous belts. Some of them were custom made for me in Korea by my instructor, so I tend to put some weight on that - and will probably display my belts if I ever own a school.

Ah, now that puts a different complection on it - I can perfectly understand the emotional response to such a thing as a rank marker made by the hands of your instructor.

 

[Shicomm]

Martial arts is a human thing ,but why would there be the need to pin the "feel" down to a group of students rather then being nice with every person on his/her own ?
The 'community thing' can be good indeed but when it comes to the subject involved i think it's a rather vague idea.
Why should it be more complicated then it allready is ?

 

[tshadowchaser]

My instructor had old belts that he would give to some students when they where promoted.
We once had a black belt promotion ( seemed at the time it came out of nowhere) that he decided to do one night. After all the testing and fighting when he was ready to promote the young man he had no belt to award. I took mine off and handed it to him. The fellow was a good friend and I had been promoted earlier but had no stripes on my belt so I gladly watched my belt go around my friends waist.

 

[stone_dragone]

In my first school (and where I still call home), the Kancho (a title I refer to him as, not one that he has taken for himself) received his Red and White banded belt from his instructor when he was recognized with the title Shihan. When my instructor promoted the first (and so far only) of his students to that rank, he passed that belt on down the line.

After several years of watching our instructor walk around in his old belt, his black belts got together and bought him a new red and white belt.

When the next person gets promoted, we'll see who gets the belt...will it be the newer one or the old one...or just a certificate and be told "go buy your own damn belt!"

...either way, we must make sure that our uniform tops stay closed and our trousers stay up...

 

[JWLuiza]

Yeah, I hear most of the "health" arguments, but I don't mind washing a belt if it gets dirty.

I think calling it "stupid" is a bit harsh. Different? Yes. Might work great for a small club.

My school, we really don't do that, except for our "provisional" 1st dans. Most people pass our black belt test with a provisional belt (they have to test one of the areas again at the next test to pass full). Our provisional belt has a zigzag of thin white stripes. When you pass "full" you turn in your provisional belt, having written your name on one of the stripes.

Since most are only worn 6-12 months at a pop and have some breaks between tests, they last up to 10 years. You end up with some my younger students asking "Who is so and so" and you get to go into some really great stories about old friends/students.

 

[kwaichang]

Hai, wakarimasu.