Question about "being ready to open a dojo"

[realg7]

In your opinion what are the minimum requirements and or credentials one should have before opening up a dojo to instruct tactical Arts? Should we go by rank , actual experience in training measured by years, or experience in the practical application of these arts in life or death situations?

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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Is there a specific tactical art? I would imagine that one's own instructors would be the best judge of if you are ready to open your own dojo. Unless you are creating something new, in which case I would probably go by a combination of rank and experience in various arts (both training and teaching hopefully), although as will be pointed out rank only has meaning in the system it is rewarded in.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When your instructors think you're ready to teach, then you're probably ready to teach.

 

[Tez3]

In your opinion what are the minimum requirements and or credentials one should have before opening up a dojo to instruct tactical Arts?

The minimum requirement is somewhere to train, without that everything else is redundant.
Not a flip answer, you'd be surprised how hard it is to get a place big enough with basic conveniences, that and having enough money to cover rent, insurance, publicity, equipment etc. Not many people who haven't been in martial arts long are willing to do that so there's a good chance anywhere opening up won't be run by beginners.

 

[marques]

In fact, to open a dojo the essential requirements are 1) a dojo and 2) clients.
Rankings help with legalities and marketing. Experience training teaching and in real life will be good* or 'just' years training will not do damage.

More seriously, after British Martial Arts & Boxing Association (BMABA) the minimum requirement is a Black Belt or equivalent (3-4 years training 1 style). And it seems to be valid generally speaking. Sometimes a less than Black Belt own a dojo because of the scarcity of instructors and demand from people. And I think it is fine if the rank is high enough and if the instructor keeps training himself somewhere else. Better than nothing.

Besides that, I am also interested in that question, since I have no papers, neither patience for low-level schools. So I would like also to meet the minimum requirements (papers) in order to be able to manage my own thing legally (thinking about 1-2h training/week in someone else club/gym - or garage), eventually.

*too much experience in real life may make you a trustable self-defence instructor AND indicates you are not a trustable person, who chose dangerous places to live or risky behaviour... showing low self-protection.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In your opinion what are the minimum requirements and or credentials one should have before opening up a dojo to instruct tactical Arts? Should we go by rank , actual experience in training measured by years, or experience in the practical application of these arts in life or death situations?

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Quite simply, the ability to teach something others find useful. Rank may matter within a given context, or it may not.

 

[marques]

The minimum requirement is somewhere to train, without that everything else is redundant.
Not a flip answer, you'd be surprised how hard it is to get a place big enough with basic conveniences, that and having enough money to cover rent, insurance, publicity, equipment etc. Not many people who haven't been in martial arts long are willing to do that so there's a good chance anywhere opening up won't be run by beginners.

There are a lot of 'beginners' teaching, in fact. They sell belts*, fitness for kids and birthday parties**.
If you know about business, you can sell martial arts. Most of the people do not know what really is a martial art and trust a good seller.

* I got one white for myself on a (paid) trial class... asked for sparring and... "only from green belt"...
** near me, 2 clubs offer birthday parties. Is it normal?!? lol

 

[Juany118]

The minimum requirement is somewhere to train, without that everything else is redundant.
Not a flip answer, you'd be surprised how hard it is to get a place big enough with basic conveniences, that and having enough money to cover rent, insurance, publicity, equipment etc. Not many people who haven't been in martial arts long are willing to do that so there's a good chance anywhere opening up won't be run by beginners.

Yeah and that can be expensive. The school I go to basically makes enough money at the moment to be self supporting (the Sifu basically runs the school as a side line/labor of love out of his Consulting company) but we have an opportunity to expand to a 6 day a week school next year and that means needing more space. A Provisional Master under TWC will be free to move to our area, making this possible, so that would mean being able to add more class days. Thing is we need to sock away almost 6 grand for the move while still covering current expenses. Fun times.

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[JowGaWolf]

In fact, to open a dojo the essential requirements are 1) a dojo and 2) clients.

This ranks as the most basic needs. An indoor facility to train in and clients. It's really difficult to have a school when outdoors is the only place to train. When my Sifu went overseas, we had to close the existing school and find an alternative place to train. I think we trained outside for about 7 months before we could find a place to train. During those 7 months, there was only one real student that attended practice. The other 5 students were only there to make sure that the school didn't die out. During those 7 months we didn't get one new student. Once we found an indoor facility we were able to go back to night classes and weather didn't have such a detrimental effect on attendance.

I have also seen where my Sifu has as a place (most recently) but no students. A situation like that requires a really strong marketing campaign to bring in new students. This is especially true for non-belted systems. The general rule of business is to have customers before you open.

If you have a low cost place to practice in, then you can afford to open before having students, such starting business in a place that wants a martial arts component to their gym. They'll usually supply the marketing and help get the students for you as your dojo is part of additional services offered by an existing business. When I was first looking for a place to train in, I called a martial art school in hope of allowing the existing students to train in their gym for the winter. The person who answered was a fitness gym representative who stated that they didn't run the martial art school or have much to do with them, they only sold memberships to the school as one of the services that a gym offered.

If you have a place to train and existing clients then that's all you really need, and then there's the legal stuff, which is the easy part.

 

[Juany118]

This ranks as the most basic needs. An indoor facility to train in and clients. It's really difficult to have a school when outdoors is the only place to train. When my Sifu went overseas, we had to close the existing school and find an alternative place to train. I think we trained outside for about 7 months before we could find a place to train. During those 7 months, there was only one real student that attended practice. The other 5 students were only there to make sure that the school didn't die out. During those 7 months we didn't get one new student. Once we found an indoor facility we were able to go back to night classes and weather didn't have such a detrimental effect on attendance.

I have also seen where my Sifu has as a place (most recently) but no students. A situation like that requires a really strong marketing campaign to bring in new students. This is especially true for non-belted systems. The general rule of business is to have customers before you open.

If you have a low cost place to practice in, then you can afford to open before having students, such starting business in a place that wants a martial arts component to their gym. They'll usually supply the marketing and help get the students for you as your dojo is part of additional services offered by an existing business. When I was first looking for a place to train in, I called a martial art school in hope of allowing the existing students to train in their gym for the winter. The person who answered was a fitness gym representative who stated that they didn't run the martial art school or have much to do with them, they only sold memberships to the school as one of the services that a gym offered.

If you have a place to train and existing clients then that's all you really need, and then there's the legal stuff, which is the easy part.

In so far as out door training I think that may be a factor of the art and Marketing. There is a Krav Maga school near me, that I am considering adding to my WC/Kali school. The Instructor teaches in a local park 365 days a year on purpose. His idea is "I am teaching a fighting system for the street so we train on the street in all seasons and weather.". He actually has a decent student base, believe it or not.

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[JP3]

I'm curious about the meaning you are putting on the word "tactical?" I'm assuming you mean practical, and real world, not the stylish performance of pretty, idiomatic kata? I may be wrong.


IMO one of the best places to learn real world, application-driven martial art techniques which are proven to work is in the Armed Forces, it doesn't get much grittier than that.

Barring that recruitment thing... as stated above, the first requirement is a place that is stable, and isn't going to go away. Paying rent is a big problem, and you have to find a way around it. For me/us, it's to jump into an existing school when they aren't using/on their own mat, and offer to pay dues to use their space during heir unused time. If we didn't have that opportunity, that means coming out of pocket for our own space, and our out of pocket would probably quad, or quintuple.

 

[realg7]

Is there a specific tactical art? I would imagine that one's own instructors would be the best judge of if you are ready to open your own dojo. Unless you are creating something new, in which case I would probably go by a combination of rank and experience in various arts (both training and teaching hopefully), although as will be pointed out rank only has meaning in the system it is rewarded in.

Blending Kali, kick boxing, and wrestling. My instructor wants to start the business with me. Like a hybrid tactical with some MMA influences. We are both credentialed in various arts.

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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Blending Kali, kick boxing, and wrestling. My instructor wants to start the business with me. Like a hybrid tactical with some MMA influences. We are both credentialed in various arts.

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If both of you guys have experience, and I'm going with the obvious assumption that your instructor thinks you are ready, and you think your instructor is qualified as well (which is why I would guess you're training with him), I say go for it. My one caution would be to make sure both of you are in agreement regarding the material and when it is supposed to be taught, along with why. Nothing could ruin it more quickly than early disagreements on what should be taught.

Also, depending on what you mean by the world tactical, if neither of you have experience in the self-defense realm of MA (none of those arts are really self-defense-focused outside of kali possibly), I would suggest having someone in that realm become an instructor as well so it is not neglected or have false-information.

 

[Tez3]

There are a lot of 'beginners' teaching, in fact. They sell belts*, fitness for kids and birthday parties**.
If you know about business, you can sell martial arts. Most of the people do not know what really is a martial art and trust a good seller.

* I got one white for myself on a (paid) trial class... asked for sparring and... "only from green belt"...
** near me, 2 clubs offer birthday parties. Is it normal?!? lol

A white belt doesn't mean anything and while I know of no one that does birthday parties it could well be a way to pay the rent. doesn't mean anything one way or another. I also don't know of anyone that makes money out of running martial arts classes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This ranks as the most basic needs. An indoor facility to train in and clients. It's really difficult to have a school when outdoors is the only place to train. When my Sifu went overseas, we had to close the existing school and find an alternative place to train. I think we trained outside for about 7 months before we could find a place to train. During those 7 months, there was only one real student that attended practice. The other 5 students were only there to make sure that the school didn't die out. During those 7 months we didn't get one new student. Once we found an indoor facility we were able to go back to night classes and weather didn't have such a detrimental effect on attendance.

I have also seen where my Sifu has as a place (most recently) but no students. A situation like that requires a really strong marketing campaign to bring in new students. This is especially true for non-belted systems. The general rule of business is to have customers before you open.

If you have a low cost place to practice in, then you can afford to open before having students, such starting business in a place that wants a martial arts component to their gym. They'll usually supply the marketing and help get the students for you as your dojo is part of additional services offered by an existing business. When I was first looking for a place to train in, I called a martial art school in hope of allowing the existing students to train in their gym for the winter. The person who answered was a fitness gym representative who stated that they didn't run the martial art school or have much to do with them, they only sold memberships to the school as one of the services that a gym offered.

If you have a place to train and existing clients then that's all you really need, and then there's the legal stuff, which is the easy part.

There are a lot of business-side considerations, as you and others are pointing out. I read the OP as asking how to know he was ready to teach, and that's what I answered. Perhaps his question was closer to what you're addressing, so I'll go a bit further.

To find out if you have what it takes to open and run a school, you need a place to teach where cost is low. A rec center or YMCA or such will do if htey have a usable space and no competing programs. If you let them keep the income (some or all), you can probably get the space for free. Now you get to practice your marketing, and work on building up the students you'd need to support a school. Figure out the attendance you'd need to pay for rent, insurance, utilities, equipment replacement, etc. When you have more than that many students for several months (you must have more, because you will lose a portion when you move) then you start looking for an appropriate space.

Consult with several instuctors (in your area and elsewhere) to make sure you're considering all the pieces.

 

[hoshin1600]

My instructor wants to start the business with me.

i would advise against this. partnership businesses are more likely to fail. when that happens you will lose the business and your teacher along with any organization affiliation. in business there can only really be one boss. yes certain people can be responsible for certain areas of the business but there needs to be a top decision maker. if that is your instructor (because he is your teacher) then in fact you are his employee, while carrying the financial risk and personal investment.
not saying this is your case , but in many instances the senior instructor is looking for financial gain for the use of his title and reputation. while the junior does all the work. this type of set up leads to frustration and resentment.
i understand this is not the advise you asked for so i will leave it at that.

to address.. if your ready...

Should we go by rank , actual experience in training measured by years, or experience in the practical application of these arts in life or death situations?

actually all three. think of a professional resume. that is really what you are trying to build up. some years ago i personally sat down and typed up a martial art resume. ( its three pages long) if your personal resume is one or two lines , then you may not be ready.
the consumer is the final judge of whether or not your ready. people will vote with their feet. if the business fails then you were not ready. but credentials only matter within a context. who is your potential customer? are you going to teach law enforcement or do kids birthday parties? each one has a different criteria that are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
person "A"
was a Florida state police officer for 10 years, 4th degree black belt in karate, Ceritified Florida defensive tactics instructor and an expert adviser for the court system.
person "B"
graduated with a BS in education, was an elementary school teacher for 20 years and has a green belt in karate.

big difference but both would be considered qualified depending on the context.
the most important part is integrity. if you have doubt about your own qualifications then you are probably not ready.

 

[marques]

A white belt doesn't mean anything

Actually, it means I could not spar before paying a couple of graduations (green belt). Sparring class was the best they had for me.

I also don't know of anyone that makes money out of running martial arts classes.

You must be lying. You certainly know more people in that business than me and I already now a few (3-4 immediately in mind) living on that, no other job. I am almost sure the instructors of that last dojo are living on Martial art + fitness, adding more a few-.

I was to omit the 'birthday' think. But... Actually, it doesn't mean 'beginner', but surely means business wise (and not martial art skill), which was my point. (Perhaps my writing wasn't the clearest.)

 

[Tez3]

You must be lying.

Really? Do you normally speak to people like that?

Despite the fact I think you are being rude and ignorant I will answer you. No, I'm not lying, I don't know anyone who just lives off teaching martial arts other than Iain Abernethy and he doesn't run schools or classes as such, he's a man of integrity and honesty who earns an honest crust.
That I don't know anyone who just earns a living from teaching martial arts in the manner you describe doesn't mean there aren't any, it means those I know, train with etc don't do it. Everyone I know, also has a 'day job'. I don't know anyone who runs schools or holds birthday parties, neither of which I disapprove of because it's none of my business what other's do, it's up to them. I imagine if you are a martial arts mad child having a birthday party in your dojo would be the height of fun for them so why not. If the owners feel they need to do this to pay the rent then good for them, I'm not going to get into the whole argument about the so called 'purity' of martial arts schools etc.
I know people who run gyms, there's kick boxing, MMA, fitness, boxercise, yoga etc etc but it's hard work and doesn't bring in as much as you'd think so many of those owners also have 'day jobs'.
There's a JKD school near me, run by a friend of my son's, it's a cracking place, lots of classes, lots of students but the owner has his own business, he doesn't make money from martial arts.
Perhaps before you start calling people liars you might like to take yourself off and give yourself a good talking to, just because you know some people who can earn a living doesn't mean the rest of us have. Just because those people earn a living from martial arts doesn't make them rip off merchants or thieves, you perhaps want to adjust your attitude and you may find a more congenial martial arts class. Rather than think you know it all, perhaps you should look at the empty cup idea. many places don't let you spar until after a certain grade, that's their prerogative, perhaps you were annoyed that they wouldn't take your word that you were this marvellous fighter who had deigned to join them and wanted to see some techniques from you before letting you loose in sparring. How dare they have such a sensible attitude!
Son, next time don't call me a liar, wind your neck in and think about what you write, twice, before you type anything up again.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Actually, it means I could not spar before paying a couple of graduations (green belt). Sparring class was the best they had for me.

You must be lying. You certainly know more people in that business than me and I already now a few (3-4 immediately in mind) living on that, no other job. I am almost sure the instructors of that last dojo are living on Martial art + fitness, adding more a few-.

I was to omit the 'birthday' think. But... Actually, it doesn't mean 'beginner', but surely means business wise (and not martial art skill), which was my point. (Perhaps my writing wasn't the clearest.)

Many instructors don't make a living at it. Even one of the instructors I know who has a long-established school with more than a dozen classes a week doesn't make his living on it. I'm not sure if he even clears a profit of any substance or not.

 

[marques]

Many instructors don't make a living at it. Even one of the instructors I know who has a long-established school with more than a dozen classes a week doesn't make his living on it. I'm not sure if he even clears a profit of any substance or not.

I am not saying many instructors are making a living on it. I am saying it is hard to believe most of the instructors are not making some money (=making money out, right?). And I said I know people (and I know very little) living on it as extreme examples.

In my first month teaching, I was making money for my organisation and for me (50/50) with a few students. (Ok, all my earnings I put back on my own training and equipment, fuel... but it was from the first month.) So how to believe people in the market for decades and/or dozens of student don't make some money?
Ok, I put a lot of money and time on my own training before having some earnings. But after decades still not making some money overall? You don't know no one making some money, really?

Ok, you may say it is like this. I will not argue more about that. It is since a while no more about 'requirements to open a dojo'. Perhaps about 'requirements to keep the door open'... New thread to come?