What is the value of rank of probationary black black belts (Lakan 0)? Do they add any value to the organization and individual or are they in essence a "Barney Fife" black belt, ie deputy with a gun and single bulllet.
Probationary Black Belts Crock or Not?
- Thread starter Guro Harold
- Start date
If you view rank as a retention tool then there is benefit.
How many people drop out shortly after reaching that "end goal"?
By making it probationary they can reach there goal but still have to remain in order to make it "official". As opposed to delaying the BB which might cause earlier drop outs as it just seems "too far away".
Stop thinking about the "rank" and worry about how LONG people stay and what the quality of what they do there is. And if you are a business owner, How much money will I get from them so that I can pay the rent and keep the lights on...
How many people drop out shortly after reaching that "end goal"?
By making it probationary they can reach there goal but still have to remain in order to make it "official". As opposed to delaying the BB which might cause earlier drop outs as it just seems "too far away".
Stop thinking about the "rank" and worry about how LONG people stay and what the quality of what they do there is. And if you are a business owner, How much money will I get from them so that I can pay the rent and keep the lights on...
bdparsons
Black Belt
Not being involved in Modern Arnis I can't speak to how this system specifically handles the probationary Black Belt ranking. However I have been involved in a Hapkido kwan that handled the same belt in a unique way.
In between the 2nd Brown and Black Belts there was an intermediate belt that was half-brown and half-black in color. The time this belt was awarded was at the discretion of the instructor while the person was learning the material for Black Belt, but no sooner thatn six months after receiving the 2nd Brown promotion. This belt was awarded for a six month period. At the end of six months the individual was tested on fifty percent of the material of all belt levels White-2nd Brown. The catch is that the individual didn't know which 50 percent of the material would be tested until hearing it requested during the test. This meant the individual had to be prepared to perform anything learned White-2nd Brown. If the person failed the test, they would revert back to 2nd Brown Belt until the instructor decided to award the probationary belt again. You had to pass the probationary belt before they would even consider testing you for Black Belt
Really helped in making sure the colored belt material didn't fall by the wayside while learning the material for Black Belt.
Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute
In between the 2nd Brown and Black Belts there was an intermediate belt that was half-brown and half-black in color. The time this belt was awarded was at the discretion of the instructor while the person was learning the material for Black Belt, but no sooner thatn six months after receiving the 2nd Brown promotion. This belt was awarded for a six month period. At the end of six months the individual was tested on fifty percent of the material of all belt levels White-2nd Brown. The catch is that the individual didn't know which 50 percent of the material would be tested until hearing it requested during the test. This meant the individual had to be prepared to perform anything learned White-2nd Brown. If the person failed the test, they would revert back to 2nd Brown Belt until the instructor decided to award the probationary belt again. You had to pass the probationary belt before they would even consider testing you for Black Belt
Really helped in making sure the colored belt material didn't fall by the wayside while learning the material for Black Belt.
Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute
Hey There,
IMHO a probationary black is a bad idea. Anything probationary implies that it can be taken away and is not "real". Hence anyone wearing a probationary black belt would in fact be wearing a "fake" one.
I think a better idea may be a "black belt candidate" rank. This would show the person that their effort and potential is recognized and they are on track to a black belt, they just need some seasoning. My Wing Chun teacher employed a "black sash candidate" rank in just such a manner and it was a very positive thing. The "black sash candidate" became a rank that everyone went through, even if only for a short time before becoming a "black sash". The rank was simply given and not tested for and did not involve a fee in any way. Almost all "candidates" stayed on to get their "black sash" including myself.
My vote is a very tempered "crock".
IMHO a probationary black is a bad idea. Anything probationary implies that it can be taken away and is not "real". Hence anyone wearing a probationary black belt would in fact be wearing a "fake" one.
I think a better idea may be a "black belt candidate" rank. This would show the person that their effort and potential is recognized and they are on track to a black belt, they just need some seasoning. My Wing Chun teacher employed a "black sash candidate" rank in just such a manner and it was a very positive thing. The "black sash candidate" became a rank that everyone went through, even if only for a short time before becoming a "black sash". The rank was simply given and not tested for and did not involve a fee in any way. Almost all "candidates" stayed on to get their "black sash" including myself.
My vote is a very tempered "crock".
Personally, I'd rather not have a Probatioary Black, and have students just test right for the Black Belt. IMO, the Brown Belt ranks are the "Probationary Period" so to speak. Why wait to the Prob. Black to see if the student knows the material, can perform it, etc.? If they can't do it in the Brown ranks, they're not going to do it in the Prob Black either.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
When PRof. Presas was alive it was a good idea. I saw more "black belts" blow the scene until the probationary period was instituted. Now I suppose it all depends on how well you know your student. Hopefully you know him/her well enough when you do the promotion. On the other hand, if you are the lead instructor of an organization seeing the new black belt for the first time, from an organizational standpoint I see it as valid.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Yours,
Dan Anderson
It doesn't make a big difference to me either way, but not having it brings us more into line with other arts.
Palusut said:
Well I have heard and seen both, the Lakan rank used as a Probationary and also as a none probationary rank. So, in the later case you would have eleven ranks of Black. I think the probationary portion developed into the certificates being dated for expiration.
Personaly I think it is a bad idea. It causes confusion to have a degree (0) Zero. I only see one reason for it, and that would be to still have ten degrees, and the tenth could be reserved for GM R Presas. Otherwise I think it is difficult to discuss with other arts, and is better handled with an organizations re-certifcation process.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
My understanding is that the "0 dan" originated when someone making up a rank sheet mis-read the rank list in Professor's book and took the section designator ("Lakan") to be a separate rank. Don't know if that is true, but it makes sense. Such a rank may be appropriate for young martial artists, but NOT for adults. As to people getting rank, then not coming back....that is why the certs had expiration dates.
dearnis.com said:
Yes this did occur and unfortunately at about the same time so did the Probationary belt.
Many consider them to be the same but it depends upon where you were and what your cert says. Hence a lot of the confusion.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Like so many things.....Professor was just not about the administrative end of the art... Expiration dates are not a bad thing; I use them myself. BUT the whole lakan vs. lakan isa debacle should die a long overdue death.
Mark Lynn
Master Black Belt
Dan Anderson said:
I voted no thinking the same way as Dan here. I believe the probationary BB rank was good while the Professor was alive and BB testing was done at camps. This way if the person didn't stay active they never earned a "real" BB rank.
However if the student is being tested at your school and you are testing them then I think it's a waste. You should know your student well enough by then and they should have a test strong enough for them to have really earned it.
At the camps that I've been to, tested in, and graded other people in, while the Profesor was alive I thought the grading was more a formality than a real hard objective test.
No offense intended
Mark
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
We have a winner!!
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
The Boar Man said:
Dammit, Chad! You beat me to it. Mark. The arrow hit dead center.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
and I thought age and guile were supposed to beat youth and good looks....
Have to agree about it often being a formality, BUT the Prof. often was watching people for days before during the camp and so had a good chance to make up his mind based on that data.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Yes, but on the flip side there were many who couldn't pass the muster in a rugged test who were promoted.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Oh yeah, some people were certainly promoted for reasons other than their skill in arnis.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Do NOT get me started. My pet peeve are the loudmouthed high ranks who clearly could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag with two sticks!
:soapbox: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :soapbox:
