Power and economy of motion

[Rick Wade]

This weekend we had an impromptu seminar (so to speak) where we analyzed techniques and juiced them up. We learned how to deliver power with the timing. Which then provided speed.

Maybe I am showing my ignorance but in the past I have tried to become faster, thinking faster is more powerful. However it is just the opposite if you work on your timing.

I was amazed.

Can anyone out there offer some insight.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Power comes from (among many other things) proper position, proper alignment, proper angles and lines of motion, coordinated timing.

Economy of motion is the ability to execute all those proper and coordinated things I just mentioned without extra and unecessary movements. This economy enables you to deliver powerful strikes quickly.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I find that getting down in stance, increases power; however, the constant head level stuff can really hinder you. Don't be afraid to rise up with your uppercuts and drop into your downward strikes.

 

[Rick Wade]

We analyzed Five Swords and I was amazed that the initial double block Sword 1 and 2 (if you choose to do it that way) at how much power you are trying to absorb. Where if you use your right hand to check him in the neck and the left more like an angled block (his arm slips off).

Third sword: If you execute that uppercut before you go into the twist stance and bring it from low (from your hip). I was AMAZED at how much more power just these two simple adjustments made in the technique and it flowed a lot better.

P.S. Any Black Belts want to pick up and move to Oahu, Hawaii to be MY personal Trainer? I will support you. I will be taking applications all week. Just Kidding

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rick Wade
We analyzed Five Swords and I was amazed that the initial double block Sword 1 and 2 (if you choose to do it that way) at how much power you are trying to absorb. Where if you use your right hand to check him in the neck and the left more like an angled block (his arm slips off).

Third sword: If you execute that uppercut before you go into the twist stance and bring it from low (from your hip). I was AMAZED at how much more power just these two simple adjustments made in the technique and it flowed a lot better.

P.S. Any Black Belts want to pick up and move to Oahu, Hawaii to be MY personal Trainer? I will support you. I will be taking applications all week. Just Kidding

I wouldn't think the first move in "Five Swords" was about absorbing power, but about getting on the inside and beating him to the punch. The left hand is more of a check. What twist stance?
Sean

 

[Rick Wade]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I wouldn't think the first move in "Five Swords" was about absorbing power, but about getting on the inside and beating him to the punch.

I agree with you but that is the way I was taught I am just saying that it is amazing when taught properly with body in alinement How it changes the technique and sudenly makes sense.

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death

What twist stance?
Sean

I mispoke on the twist stance:

here is the section of the technique that I am talking about as written
"5. Immediately have your left foot slide counter clockwise (to 4 o'clock) into a right forward bow as you left heel of palm strikes to the left jaw of opponent (striking in an outwardly fashion). Without hesitation and while shifting into a right neutral bow have your left hand hook and pull opponent's head down as you deliver a right overhead downward hand sword to back of opponent's neck. "
I was refering to the shift in stance.

Thanks for setting me straight. It is people like you tha empower students.

Thanks
Rick

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by Rick Wade I mispoke on the twist stance...here is the section of the technique that I am talking about as written "5. Immediately have your left foot slide counter clockwise (to 4 o'clock) into a right forward bow as you left heel of palm strikes to the left jaw of opponent (striking in an outwardly fashion).

I was originally taught to use a full twist stance here, but later corrected to the step to 4:00. Both work, but the step is far more stable.

As a point of interest, I've seen other styles teach this cross behind step as the proper way to do a twist stance, and I always considered it to be a variation on the twist stance. Out of curiosity, how does AK in general view this- is the step across with the rear foot to 4:00 a variation on the twist, or just a positional adjustment?

 

[Rick Wade]

Originally posted by ob2c
I was originally taught to use a full twist stance here, but later corrected to the step to 4:00. Both work, but the step is far more stable.

As a point of interest, I've seen other styles teach this cross behind step as the proper way to do a twist stance, and I always considered it to be a variation on the twist stance. Out of curiosity, how does AK in general view this- is the step across with the rear foot to 4:00 a variation on the twist, or just a positional adjustment?

I was originally taught that the twist was to give you torque for the right sword hand across the neck. That is why I always called it a twist stance.

However as I was shown this weekend it is defiantly a position adjustment for the shot across the back of his neck.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rick Wade
I agree with you but that is the way I was taught I am just saying that it is amazing when taught properly with body in alinement How it changes the technique and sudenly makes sense.



I mispoke on the twist stance:

here is the section of the technique that I am talking about as written
"5. Immediately have your left foot slide counter clockwise (to 4 o'clock) into a right forward bow as you left heel of palm strikes to the left jaw of opponent (striking in an outwardly fashion). Without hesitation and while shifting into a right neutral bow have your left hand hook and pull opponent's head down as you deliver a right overhead downward hand sword to back of opponent's neck. "
I was refering to the shift in stance.

Thanks for setting me straight. It is people like you tha empower students.

Thanks
Rick

We don't teach grabbing or hooking the opponents head. At this point it becomes more like "charging ram" if you correctly executed the uppercut, step to four, handsword thing.
Sean

 

[rmcrobertson]

Some other cheap ways to power up 5 Swords:

1. Step in faster
2. Deliver a right elbow along with the initial right inward block
3. Shuffle between each move
4. Settle into a horse stance with the uppercut
5. Slide into a forward bow with the next move

--and--
6. Use a hooking chop to position the opponent

 

[Rick Wade]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Some other cheap ways to power up 5 Swords:

1. Step in faster
2. Deliver a right elbow along with the initial right inward block
3. Shuffle between each move
4. Settle into a horse stance with the uppercut
5. Slide into a forward bow with the next move

--and--
6. Use a hooking chop to position the opponent

My poor workout partner will just love your sugestions tonight. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Power comes from (among many other things) proper position, proper alignment, proper angles and lines of motion, coordinated timing.

Economy of motion is the ability to execute all those proper and coordinated things I just mentioned without extra and unecessary movements. This economy enables you to deliver powerful strikes quickly.

Power does not come from proper position. Position is more akin to the 4 ranges, defensive and offensive choices, and grafting. Whips executed from odd angles and totally out of position are quite capable of taking someones head off- Just one example out of a thousand.

 

[Rick Wade]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Some other cheap ways to power up 5 Swords:

1. Step in faster
2. Deliver a right elbow along with the initial right inward block
3. Shuffle between each move
4. Settle into a horse stance with the uppercut
5. Slide into a forward bow with the next move

--and--
6. Use a hooking chop to position the opponent

We were working this last night. We are good with everything you suggested except the elbow on the right block.

We practice that as a left block and the right hand would come out and check the opponent at their neck. Now the left block the arm would actually be 45-degree angle away from your body. The reason for this is so that you don’t absorb as much force. The right hand checking his neck just stops him dead in his track.

I hope I painted a good enough picture.

Back to the topic when we execute it our way we are not sure where the elbow goes?

Please elaborate

Thanks
Rick

I love this stuff!!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rick Wade
We were working this last night. We are good with everything you suggested except the elbow on the right block.

We practice that as a left block and the right hand would come out and check the opponent at their neck. Now the left block the arm would actually be 45-degree angle away from your body. The reason for this is so that you don’t absorb as much force. The right hand checking his neck just stops him dead in his track.

I hope I painted a good enough picture.

Back to the topic when we execute it our way we are not sure where the elbow goes?

Please elaborate

Thanks
Rick

I love this stuff!!

I don't thing adding a move increases power either.
Sean

 

[rmcrobertson]

I usually stick the elbow to the left of their sternum, a little, when doing the version in which you block upwards with the initial two blocks. But I see I've confused different types of power--that generated by, say, a shuffle, and what I guess could be called, "stopping power." My oopsie...though that elbow does tend to elicit a little more torque out of you.

I'd also argue that things like that hooking chop help generate power because a) they help position the opponent correctly (sorry, I agree with OFK), b) they increase the force with which that right hand draws back, (see Parting Wings?), which really works if you round that corner a little, and c) they help with the "can-of-snakes," effect you get as the opponent tries to rise, as you release and drop the right hand-sword...

Above all, I'd say drop your weight.

Personally, my fave version of 5 Swords is the one that begins and ends with a right ball-kick on an opponent charging in with a right punch...

 

[Seig]

Let me ask a question.
To set the stage so we are all on the same page, when the punch comes in, you step to in to a right neutral bow, check the wrist of the punching hand with your left hand and execute a right inward block to the inside of the oppoent's arm. Now, if we are following the yellow belt rule, "When blocking on the inside of an opponent's arm, do so below the elbow never above it" how are we going to deliver an elbow to the opponent's sternum without interrupting the flow of motion of the right handsword?

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Seig
Let me ask a question.
To set the stage so we are all on the same page, when the punch comes in, you step to in to a right neutral bow, check the wrist of the punching hand with your left hand and execute a right inward block to the inside of the oppoent's arm. Now, if we are following the yellow belt rule, "When blocking on the inside of an opponent's arm, do so below the elbow never above it" how are we going to deliver an elbow to the opponent's sternum without interrupting the flow of motion of the right handsword?

Stand with your hands at your sides and your feet shoulder width apart. Violently snap your hips to the left... What do your arms do but fly out from your sides- centrifugal force. Samething with the elbow strike to the sternum. The technique Triggered Salute uses a like idea with the outward elbow and back knuckle combo then followed by the half fist uppercut. So there are three or more things that will seriously make this work or as you say interrupt the flow if not added.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Stand with your hands at your sides and your feet shoulder width apart. Violently snap your hips to the left... What do your arms do but fly out from your sides- centrifugal force. Samething with the elbow strike to the sternum. The technique Triggered Salute uses a like idea with the outward elbow and back knuckle combo then followed by the half fist uppercut. So there are three or more things that will seriously make this work or as you say interrupt the flow if not added.

Let me get this strait. You want us to face off to an oponent with our feet shoulder width apart, and our hands at our sides? what is this a gun fight?

 

[Thesemindz]

Originally posted by Seig
Let me ask a question.
To set the stage so we are all on the same page, when the punch comes in, you step to in to a right neutral bow, check the wrist of the punching hand with your left hand and execute a right inward block to the inside of the oppoent's arm. Now, if we are following the yellow belt rule, "When blocking on the inside of an opponent's arm, do so below the elbow never above it" how are we going to deliver an elbow to the opponent's sternum without interrupting the flow of motion of the right handsword?

I do this all the time when I execute this technique. All you do is raise the right elbow to a closer to horizontal angle as you step in with the block. Instead of the traditional inward block structure, your fist is slightly cocked as it hits the opponents bicep/tricep at the same time as the right elbow connects with his sternum or solar plexus. Striking the sternum can really stop an opponent and the solar plexus takes the air out of them right away. From there the technique flows normally. The right handsword goes straight to its target along the same path it would have followed because the point of origin off the arm is the same for the weapon.



I also use a chop to the neck to crane the head down at the end. I figure if I'm gonna touch my opponent it might as well hurt. I also like to add a finger flick to the groin with the right hand as I step towards four oclock on the way to the final sword.



I was taught to step with the rear foot up the circle, essentially rotating my torso over the right foot rather than the rear crossover to the twist stance at the end of this technique. Basically like the beginning of charging ram.


-Rob

 

[Thesemindz]

The only problem I've had with this technique is knocking my opponent back and having to chase him down with the succesive strikes.

I'm not sure how this would work for someone significantly smaller than their opponent. The elbow could help them stop the opponent or stun him, but they might need the correct structure of the block to stop the attack.

Maximum protection before maximum penetration?

-Rob