Poomsae Seminar with Grandmaster Park, Hae Man

[Miles]

One of my students and I had the opportunity to take a Poomsae seminar today with Grandmaster PARK, Hae Man. We were invited to attend the seminar by the host, Grandmaster Ronald Rose at his school, Kicks Taekwondo & Fitness.

The seminar was 3 hours long, and because of the holiday weekend, it was not as well-attended as GM Rose would have liked. But, the small turnout-around 40, made it a very hands-on affair. There was an earlier seminar, for 5th guep and below, and this seminar was designed for 4th geup and above.

GM Park was introduced by GM Rose, and he warmed us up quickly. We started off doing stretches ending with a knifehand strike, or a block. From there, we performed the Chung Do Kwan kibon with a twist: GM Park would have us add in a middle section punch after each block. We did that for the first 3 kibon poomsae as a warm-up and then we were broken into 2 groups. My group consisted of 1st pooms through my senior and list-mate Sr. Master Roney.

Our group started with Taeguek 5 and did at least 2 repetitions of each poomsae by GM Park's count, and then he would have us do the poomsae on our own. He has a tremendous eye for detail! He made many slight modifications to my technique as well as that of my student.

Our group did each poomsae through Sipjin and then it was time to do a cool-down and take some photos. We were also presented with certificates of participation. After the award ceremony, there were group and individual pictures taken with GM Park.

It was a wonderful event and I felt privileged to have participated.

Miles

 

[TKDmel]

One of my students and I had the opportunity to take a Poomsae seminar today with Grandmaster PARK, Hae Man. We were invited to attend the seminar by the host, Grandmaster Ronald Rose at his school, Kicks Taekwondo & Fitness.

The seminar was 3 hours long, and because of the holiday weekend, it was not as well-attended as GM Rose would have liked. But, the small turnout-around 40, made it a very hands-on affair. There was an earlier seminar, for 5th guep and below, and this seminar was designed for 4th geup and above.

GM Park was introduced by GM Rose, and he warmed us up quickly. We started off doing stretches ending with a knifehand strike, or a block. From there, we performed the Chung Do Kwan kibon with a twist: GM Park would have us add in a middle section punch after each block. We did that for the first 3 kibon poomsae as a warm-up and then we were broken into 2 groups. My group consisted of 1st pooms through my senior and list-mate Sr. Master Roney.

Our group started with Taeguek 5 and did at least 2 repetitions of each poomsae by GM Park's count, and then he would have us do the poomsae on our own. He has a tremendous eye for detail! He made many slight modifications to my technique as well as that of my student.

Our group did each poomsae through Sipjin and then it was time to do a cool-down and take some photos. We were also presented with certificates of participation. After the award ceremony, there were group and individual pictures taken with GM Park.

It was a wonderful event and I felt privileged to have participated.

Miles

Miles, that sounds like its something I would love. I am a stickler for the details as well and would love to have my form critiqued.

 

[terryl965]

Miles I'm glad you had a wonderful time and I'm sure the instruction was second to none.

 

[IcemanSK]

That is really great, Miles! I had the previledge to meet GM Park again a few weeks ago. He is quite a man. Training with him is one of those special opportunities that don't come around very often. I hope it re-kindled your & your student's love & appreciation of poomsae!

 

[TraditionalTKD]

In the past, I had several opportunities to train with Hae Man Park, although it's been a while since I've done that. I think the last time I trained with him was when he accompanied us on a trip to Spain in '94. My Instructor does communicate regularly with GM Mr. Uhm, Chung Do Kwan Head.

 

[Miles]

Training with him is one of those special opportunities that don't come around very often. I hope it re-kindled your & your student's love & appreciation of poomsae!

Amen! I've got a page and a half of notes on things I need to work on. If we had done Taeguek 1-4, I'd probably have 2 and a half!

Miles

 

[TraditionalTKD]

Ironically, we always trained in the Palgue forms with him, even 10 years ago. I remember distinctly receiving advice on the proper execution of Palgue 4.

 

[exile]

Ironically, we always trained in the Palgue forms with him, even 10 years ago. I remember distinctly receiving advice on the proper execution of Palgue 4.

Can you remember anything of what he told you about Palgwe 4, TTDK? It's clear that form contains elements from Pinan Shodan in O/J karate, but it's also got some strange elements—the 360º spin into the horizontal hammerfist strike, e.g.—and I'm wondering what insights you might have picked up from him on this form.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Glad you had a great time Miles!

 

[TraditionalTKD]

As I recall, and this was quite awhile ago, he stated that I was making too large of action executing the initial square blocks. I was a 1st Dan at the time, and was used to overexaggerating the actions because that's how I was taught. According to GM Park, after black belt, I needed to be able to make the same amount of power from a small action. Practice large actions in the beginning, and then train your body to make the same power from small actions.
I do remember he had incredible stopping power and a kiup that you could hear a mile away.

 

[exile]

As I recall, and this was quite awhile ago, he stated that I was making too large of action executing the initial square blocks. I was a 1st Dan at the time, and was used to overexaggerating the actions because that's how I was taught. According to GM Park, after black belt, I needed to be able to make the same amount of power from a small action. Practice large actions in the beginning, and then train your body to make the same power from small actions.
I do remember he had incredible stopping power and a kiup that you could hear a mile away.

Interesting... that square block is the part that comes right out of Pinan Shodan. Iain Abernethy has some terrific coverage of bunkai for that `blocking' sequence in his videos on the Pinan/Heian (what IWishToLearn calls the `Peian') series.

I've always been kind of mystified by the 360º turn in the middle...

 

[bluemtn]

One of my students and I had the opportunity to take a Poomsae seminar today with Grandmaster PARK, Hae Man. We were invited to attend the seminar by the host, Grandmaster Ronald Rose at his school, Kicks Taekwondo & Fitness.

The seminar was 3 hours long, and because of the holiday weekend, it was not as well-attended as GM Rose would have liked. But, the small turnout-around 40, made it a very hands-on affair. There was an earlier seminar, for 5th guep and below, and this seminar was designed for 4th geup and above.

Miles

I'm glad you were able to attend! Wow- sounds like a lot of great material was covered. It's always nice to go to things like that, getting other perspectives on the same forms. Thanks for letting us know!

 

[TraditionalTKD]

Palgue 4 has two 360-degree turns to which you are referring. The first one comes after a break-away in which you pull your arm out of the opponent's grasp, then immediately pivot around and strike him with a horizontal hammerfist.
The second one comes in the second middle section, when someone has again grapped your arm. Instead of pulling back. you go in the direction of the pull, rotate around and again strike with a hammerfist, although I have seen backfist done.
Palgue 8 has a 360-degree pivot and backfist as well, for the same reasons, although the scenario is a little different.
The pull vs go with is directly related to the manner in which the arm is grabbed. The first way, it is more feasable to pull back based on where the weak spot is. The second way, it is better to go with the flow and surprise them, for the same reasons.
It was very interesting to have GM Park explain these little nuances, for they are what make high level Tae Kwon Do.

 

[exile]

Palgue 4 has two 360-degree turns to which you are referring. The first one comes after a break-away in which you pull your arm out of the opponent's grasp, then immediately pivot around and strike him with a horizontal hammerfist.
The second one comes in the second middle section, when someone has again grapped your arm. Instead of pulling back. you go in the direction of the pull, rotate around and again strike with a hammerfist, although I have seen backfist done.

Right, those are the ones... they're almost but not quite symmetrical, because of the difference in the wrist releases that precede them. I've often wondered if the 360º spin concealed a throwing move of some kind. There are 360s in certain karate kata and the applications for those seem also to be somewhat controversial...

Palgue 8 has a 360-degree pivot and backfist as well, for the same reasons, although the scenario is a little different.
The pull vs go with is directly related to the manner in which the arm is grabbed. The first way, it is more feasable to pull back based on where the weak spot is. The second way, it is better to go with the flow and surprise them, for the same reasons.
It was very interesting to have GM Park explain these little nuances, for they are what make high level Tae Kwon Do.

Yes, it's very good to have someone who knows what these small details and refinements are there for.

Palgwe 8 is the one I haven't learned yet—looks very complex, from what I've seen of my instructor demonstrating it. Will be learning that one after my next belt test sometime this autumn... I appreciate the light you've shed on these forms, TTKD! :asian:

 

[TraditionalTKD]

People who think Tae Kwon Do doesn't teach effective self defense haven't studied these forms closely. The higher forms (green belt and above) contain numerous SD techniques, some quite painful and lethal.

 

[terryl965]

YOur right it does have alot of SD in them, quick question how many times have you actually trained or done a seminar about poomsae from Grandmaster PARK, Hae Man. I love to hear about them.

 

[exile]

People who think Tae Kwon Do doesn't teach effective self defense haven't studied these forms closely. The higher forms (green belt and above) contain numerous SD techniques, some quite painful and lethal.

That is so true—and yet it's something that so many people aren't aware of, and actually argue with you about when you try to explain to them some of the realistic applications! The pioneers of thes striking arts took it for granted that the forms they devised would be understood as reflecting tactical applications of solid self-defense fighting principles... that aspect of the poomsae has only recently begun to get the attention and analysis it deserves.

 

[IcemanSK]

YOur right it does have alot of SD in them, quick question how many times have you actually trained or done a seminar about poomsae from Grandmaster PARK, Hae Man. I love to hear about them.

I've done one. It was last year at the USCDKA conference. I wanted to this year, but after my test, I wasn't up for it.

 

[TraditionalTKD]

I have done 4-5. Two here in the States, and two with him accompanying us on a trip to Spain in '94. Technically I was present at a seminar/testing he did for us back in '83, but I was testing for yellow belt and had no idea who he was, so it really doesn't count. He was also a judge at my 4th dan testing in '96, and came up to me after my break and seemed to be impressed.
Important to realize, we not only practiced with him, but got to hang out with him and talk with him informally. Not easy to do because his English isn't the best, but he would physically demonstrate concepts for us, and our GM would translate as best he could. Sometimes his English wasn't the best either. In Spain, he rode the tourbus with us for several days until he had to leave for separate obligations.

 

[Miles]

If I did this right, here's a photo of my 3rd dan student Andy, GM Park, and myself.