patches

[Manny]

I want to get a small patch from Jido Kwan and wear it in my dobok in the left arm. My lineaje is Ji Do Kwan, I am very proud of it but don't know if wearing my old patch in the dobok of the new organization (Hwanrang Tae Kwon Do) would be unrespectfull or bad taste to my Sambonim.

I remeber one classmate who went to NY to study and trained under Richar Chun there, the master Chun allowed her to wear her Ji Do Kanw Patch below the Richard Chun's patch without hesitation but don't know if my sambonim will take this as a lack of respect.

Manny

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I wouldn't think that it would be a problem, though some schools are very strict regarding patches. Best way to find out is to ask.

Daniel

 

[jthomas1600]

I think the only one who can answer this question will be your sambonim. I can see how some school owners would have a problem with this. Many people like uniformity in the class and if you let one person wear other patches pretty soon everyone has 20 different patches on their uniforms. Perhaps if you approach your sambonim about this you can propose it as only being for black belts.

 

[dancingalone]

I want to get a small patch from Jido Kwan and wear it in my dobok in the left arm. My lineaje is Ji Do Kwan, I am very proud of it but don't know if wearing my old patch in the dobok of the new organization (Hwanrang Tae Kwon Do) would be unrespectfull or bad taste to my Sambonim.

I remeber one classmate who went to NY to study and trained under Richar Chun there, the master Chun allowed her to wear her Ji Do Kanw Patch below the Richard Chun's patch without hesitation but don't know if my sambonim will take this as a lack of respect.

Manny

Isn't your sabom also Jidokwan? If so, it's worth asking. He might even establish an official policy where students can wear the patch in a specific part of uniform.

I'll admit I don't particularly like it when transfer students wear a different badge or emblem when they join my school. It seems out of place to wear something foreign when they are in your dojo to learn new material from you.

 

[terryl965]

Manny all one can do is ask, without sounding demanding. I am sure he will understand your thought process.

 

[andyjeffries]

I'll admit I don't particularly like it when transfer students wear a different badge or emblem when they join my school. It seems out of place to wear something foreign when they are in your dojo to learn new material from you.

I find that weird. All our doboks are different (different brands, amounts of embroidery, badges, etc) so I don't mind what people wear. They are training with you, but it doesn't mean they've pledged their first born in your honour, it's a place for people to learn.

I may view it slightly differently if they want to be considered an Assistant Instructor at your school (then they should be proudly displaying your branding as they are an official representative of your school), but for a student - particularly one that trains at both places or it's short term - I have no issue with it.

 

[dancingalone]

I find that weird. All our doboks are different (different brands, amounts of embroidery, badges, etc) so I don't mind what people wear. They are training with you, but it doesn't mean they've pledged their first born in your honour, it's a place for people to learn.

You indeed have a different understanding.

When I teach karate, I have a primary goal of teaching my students self-defense. However, I do also have a stated secondary aim of passing along intact the traditional training methods of Okinawan karate as was taught me by my own instructor. Given that context, it shouldn't be surprising or weird that I look upon the practice of wearing a different patch within my own dojo with disfavor.

Or to word it a different way. My dojo isn't a Gold's Gym.

 

[Manny]

My master is an ex Moo Duk Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan had an disrupt in the 90's that lead to Moo Duk Kwan Mexico and Asociacion Moo Duk Kwan, Dai Won Moon kept the Moo Duk Kwan brand and the other masters formed the Asociation or went to made his own dojang, my master did not follow MDK or the MDK Asociation, he created Hwanrang Tae Kwon Do dojangs.

I think dancing alone is right, for that sake I want to wear a tiny patch in the left shoulder/arm area just as a reminder (to me) and not to my master get mad about it.

In fact I am still using my old jido kwan bag (circa 1986) whit all the advertisement and colours and patches of JDK wihtout a single problem.

My sambonim knows I have jido kwan blood runing tru my veins and deep in my hart Jido Kwan has a place.

Manny

 

[jthomas1600]

I don't completely understand the "your at my school now, forget all that came" before single mindedness. What happens to the student who trains for 15 years at your school and then his company transfers him to a new location 200 miles away. I would expect he would find a similar school. I would also suspect that he would want to hold on to and honor some of the traditions, experiences and memories from your school.

 

[dancingalone]

I don't completely understand the "your at my school now, forget all that came" before single mindedness. What happens to the student who trains for 15 years at your school and then his company transfers him to a new location 200 miles away. I would expect he would find a similar school. I would also suspect that he would want to hold on to and honor some of the traditions, experiences and memories from your school.

Ah, but that's not what I am saying, am I? It's true that we are the composite of all our experiences, so it's impossible to ignore any prior physical training we have already.

What I am saying is that when you are in my dojo, you are training in my method, a method that traceable to at least 3 generations back, and it is one of my goals for you to learn it as closely to the way I learned it as I can impart. Given that understanding, it would be a breach in spirit to come to my dojo wearing a badge from another school, promoting another training methodology.

<shrugs> If some of you still don't understand my thoughts behind this, that is fine.

 

[msmitht]

I am a former marine. One time my infantry unit was joined by an army unit for some field testing. We shot together, ran together etc...
Our uniforms had an EGA and our name. The army guys had all sorts of patches and stuff on their cammies.
My point? Wear what is appropriate. If you have not asked your instructor by now then you probably know the answer.

 

[dancingalone]

My master is an ex Moo Duk Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan had an disrupt in the 90's that lead to Moo Duk Kwan Mexico and Asociacion Moo Duk Kwan, Dai Won Moon kept the Moo Duk Kwan brand and the other masters formed the Asociation or went to made his own dojang, my master did not follow MDK or the MDK Asociation, he created Hwanrang Tae Kwon Do dojangs.

I think dancing alone is right, for that sake I want to wear a tiny patch in the left shoulder/arm area just as a reminder (to me) and not to my master get mad about it.

In fact I am still using my old jido kwan bag (circa 1986) whit all the advertisement and colours and patches of JDK wihtout a single problem.

My sambonim knows I have jido kwan blood runing tru my veins and deep in my hart Jido Kwan has a place.

Manny

Off topic, Manny, but do you notice a difference in teaching methods between your old and new sabom? What makes you hold an allegiance to the Jidokwan other than it was your first association?

 

[Manny]

Off topic, Manny, but do you notice a difference in teaching methods between your old and new sabom? What makes you hold an allegiance to the Jidokwan other than it was your first association?

The methodology beetwen Jido Kwan Tae Kwon Do (master Ramon Alvite)and Hwarang Tae Kwon Do (Miguel Carillo) is the following, Kido Kwan's more traditional (like in the 1980's-1990's) they train in wooden floor, the warm up/exercise is more power oriented, more hand techs/blocks and parries, more han bon kyorugy, san bon kyurugi, and the sparring (kyorugy) is not as aerial. In the other hand Hwarang tae Kwon Do training is more olimpic and updated, lot's of kicks, more kicks, ho si sul almost inexistent, one step sparring very few, good poomsae and the kyorugy is more olimpic style.

I can say JiDo Kwan training is a little more traditional than Hwarang.

My allegiance to JiDo Kwan and Master Ramon Alvite is I highly respect him, he was one of the pioneers of TKD in my state, he was one of the fisrth TKD black belts in my country back in the early 1970's, Mr.Alvite is such a warrior and a gentelman at the same time, and I relly liked his methodology of teaching, yes his methodology maybe is not so actual but it's efective from the MA thing, and I belive dacingalone I know what are you heading with your questions....


Manny

 

[dancingalone]

The methodology beetwen Jido Kwan Tae Kwon Do (master Ramon Alvite)and Hwarang Tae Kwon Do (Miguel Carillo) is the following, Kido Kwan's more traditional (like in the 1980's-1990's) they train in wooden floor, the warm up/exercise is more power oriented, more hand techs/blocks and parries, more han bon kyorugy, san bon kyurugi, and the sparring (kyorugy) is not as aerial. In the other hand Hwarang tae Kwon Do training is more olimpic and updated, lot's of kicks, more kicks, ho si sul almost inexistent, one step sparring very few, good poomsae and the kyorugy is more olimpic style.

I can say JiDo Kwan training is a little more traditional than Hwarang.

My allegiance to JiDo Kwan and Master Ramon Alvite is I highly respect him, he was one of the pioneers of TKD in my state, he was one of the fisrth TKD black belts in my country back in the early 1970's, Mr.Alvite is such a warrior and a gentelman at the same time, and I relly liked his methodology of teaching, yes his methodology maybe is not so actual but it's efective from the MA thing,

I was curious because I had thought all the kwan-specific teachings had mostly been extinguished at this point in favor of a more unified KKW TKD approach. So while individual dojang will have extra training or requirements, their expressions of TKD should more or less look the same with similar stances, chambering, movement, etc.

and I belive dacingalone I know what are you heading with your questions....
Manny

I don't know that I really have a point I was trying to make. I try to compartmentalize my martial arts in study, although privately they must all co-exist within myself.

As you know I teach karate and TKD and I also practice aikido under my wife's direction. I don't wear the same uniform to each school although conceivably I could since all three schools use a similar white dogi design. I want to keep the badges where they belong - to me it's a matter of paying respect to the place I am at the time.

 

[Manny]

I was curious because I had thought all the kwan-specific teachings had mostly be extinguished at this point in favor of a more unified KKW TKD approach. So while individual dojang will have extra training or requirements, their expressions of TKD should more or less look the same with similar stances, chambering, movement, etc.





I don't know that I really have a point I was trying to make. I try to compartmentalize my martial arts in study, although privately they must all co-exist within myself.

As you know I teach karate and TKD and I also practice aikido under my wife's direction. I don't wear the same uniform to each school although conceivably I could since all three schools use a similar white dogi design. I want to keep the badges where they belong - to me it's a matter of paying respect to the place I am at the time.

When I wrote....and I belive dacingalone I know what are you heading with your questions.... I was talking about that maybe you were asking yourself..... if Manny loves Clasic TKD why then he does not return to his former Kwan/Sambonim??? and tgis my friend is a valid way of thinking.

I think I should go to the past and explain myself. When I got my blue belt my sambonim open a new dojang near my home below the direction of one of his senior studentes, so I change to the new dojang and trained there till I got my black belt, in that time I got a very good frienship with my new sambonim Mr.Morales, he is gentelman, almost a brother to mee.

Mr.Morales broke up with our sambonim and afiliate to a new dojang and I follow him, till he left my city and went live to Tijuana. Afther that I trained a little akido, a little shotokan and went back to my old dojang (JiDo Kwan) however I was tired of TKD, I was tired of the olimpic movement, the olimpic sparring and just wanted to do something else, plus I got married, etc,etc.etc. and leave TKD JDK.

Some day back on may 2007 I wanted to do some exercise and improve my helath and it was because of destiny thta I arrived to a new dojang (Hwarang) the sambo was nice, he acpted my dan, I do not know anything from this sambo, but the atmosphere in his dojang was right and the rest is history.

Right now I am very grateful to Hwarang Tae Kwon Do and my master and still have a nice relationship with my former dojang/sambonim.

Manny

 

[puunui]

I want to get a small patch from Jido Kwan and wear it in my dobok in the left arm. My lineaje is Ji Do Kwan, I am very proud of it but don't know if wearing my old patch in the dobok of the new organization (Hwanrang Tae Kwon Do) would be unrespectfull or bad taste to my Sambonim.

When I joined a new school, I tried as much as possible to blend in. I did the curriculum and techniques the way the instructor wanted them done. I never tried to interject anything from prior training. I never said for example, "but my prior dojang and instructor did it differently." That way, I got the full flavor of what the new school offered. I wasn't into patches in the first place, so it wasn't a big deal. I would do as the romans do when in rome and simply wear the patches that your new school wants you to wear, if any. I wouldn't even bring it up to the instructor. My original Taekwondo lineage is Jidokwan too.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Others have already mentioned simply asking your instructor if he'd have a problem with you wearing a Jidokwan patch and you can certainly do that. Personally, if it was me I wouldn't. That's a bit like training in Goju Ryu and asking your instructr if you can wear a patch from your old Shorin Ryu school. Both are karate, but different enough to be their own thing. Your old school and the new one sound like they differ enough in training methods to be different even though both are Taekwon-Do.

You might want to consider simply having a dobok you use for training at home with a Jidokwan insignia on it. When I was training in college under a KKW instructor who came up through the Jidokwan I wore his insignia when training and my instructor's patch when I trained on my own or trained at his school on break.

If you feel a pull towards your roots you could always at least talk to your old instructor about training there again. I could be misreading your posts but it seems like you prefer the training methods (and material) of the older school to the newer one with its focus on Olympic style sparring.

Pax,

Chris