palm strikes?

[chris_มวยไทย]

i have only ever got into 2 real fights , the first i won by knees and a hip throw from the clinch , the second i won with a double leg takedown then a (not so tight) rear naked choke until he calmed down and we apoligised to eachother , and i never intend to fight again. ive always hated the thought of punching because of the chances of damaging the knuckles or wrist. last night for the first time i punched the pads with grappling gloves on (the same the UFC ones) , it was ok until i did a hook , which hurt my wrist evertime.

i was wondering that if i ever get into another situation like the ones mentioned above, should i keep the same technique but use palm strikes instead of a closed fist? and is there a way i can use my palm with a hook? it feels a bit , well , strange using my palm in a hook , maybe im just not used to it

and are there any reasons not to use palm strikes? , and if i do use them should i practice first to get the right "feel"?


chris

 

[tellner]

One of the very best in the world, bar none, no exaggeration is Phil Messina of Long Island. NYPD's most decorated cop. One of three survivors of the Violent Street Crimes Unit. Most felony arrests. The 200+ students at his school are mostly active duty law enforcement. Marine Corps in Vietnam with a heavily redacted service record. You get the idea.

He doesn't teach punching with the closed fist anymore for just the reasons you mention plus a few others. His people have set up heavy bags with strain gauges and accelerometers and found that the palm heel strike does not hit noticeably slower, softer or with less power than closed-fist strikes.

 

[chris_มวยไทย]

One of the very best in the world, bar none, no exaggeration is Phil Messina of Long Island. NYPD's most decorated cop. One of three survivors of the Violent Street Crimes Unit. Most felony arrests. The 200+ students at his school are mostly active duty law enforcement. Marine Corps in Vietnam with a heavily redacted service record. You get the idea.

He doesn't teach punching with the closed fist anymore for just the reasons you mention plus a few others. His people have set up heavy bags with strain gauges and accelerometers and found that the palm heel strike does not hit noticeably slower, softer or with less power than closed-fist strikes.

good info thanks! and what do you mean by "plus just a few others" , what others?

 

[Flying Crane]

and is there a way i can use my palm with a hook? it feels a bit , well , strange using my palm in a hook , maybe im just not used to it


chris

Palm strikes are very effective. As for the hook, point your fingers away from you as you hook in with the palm. Only strike with the very heel of the palm, not the flat of the open hand. If you try to point the fingers toward yourself as you hook, you will probably sprain your wrist pretty badly as you impact with the top of the open palm.

 

[chris_มวยไทย]

Palm strikes are very effective. As for the hook, point your fingers away from you as you hook in with the palm. Only strike with the very heel of the palm, not the flat of the open hand. If you try to point the fingers toward yourself as you hook, you will probably sprain your wrist pretty badly as you impact with the top of the open palm.

so its kinda looks like a slap? i thought that maybe the fingers pointed up , that may be why it felt uncomfortable lol

 

[rutherford]

You weren't throwing your hooks correctly.

That said, even the best boxer risks breaking a hand or a wrist if he gets in a fight bareknuckles. I'd use my fists less, if I didn't enjoy it so much. Sometimes fun gets a higher priority than health. Maybe someday I'll mature out of that.

You can throw hooks with a palm, and works especially well against the ear if you really don't like the other guy.

However, be careful of your targets. You don't want to end up having your fingers strike an obstruction.

 

[Flying Crane]

so its kinda looks like a slap? i thought that maybe the fingers pointed up , that may be why it felt uncomfortable lol

no, if it looks like a slap, you are probably hitting with more of the palm than you should. bend the wrist back to pull your fingers back and out of the way. This should extend the very bottom of the palm and this should be the only portion that you hit with. Play with that on a heavybag. I find that I can get a very nice, resounding "thud" out of that shot. It would be very effective against the ribs or kidneys.

The path of the palm coming in might be slightly different from a hook with a closed fist. I guess I can see where it might look a little bit like a slap, but not too much. Kind of somewhere in between the thrusting arc path of a hook punch, and the arcing path of a slap. Not sure how to describe it better than that... Play with it a bit, you'll figure it out.

 

[Danjo]

Slaps are very effective for knocking people out and breaking their jaws. But they have to be done correctly. You hit with the bottom of the palm and you turn the torso and let the arm follow afterwards to get the proper velocity.

 

[Flying Crane]

Slaps are very effective for knocking people out and breaking their jaws. But they have to be done correctly. You hit with the bottom of the palm and you turn the torso and let the arm follow afterwards to get the proper velocity.

I agree, good description. I just tend to think of a "slap" as loose, with the full open palm. I kind of differentiate the term when it is done as you describe.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Palm strikes are trained heavily in non-sport Sanda (as taught to Chinese police) and they are quite effective. If you have ever see any of my post about beating trees that is generally training a palm strike. They are straight strikes no hook.

Also Xingyi Piquan has a palm strike which also is straight but its force is generally downward, hard to explain here. But my Sifu used me to demo its application for the class and at about half power my neck and shoulders were hurting for a couple of days.

Palm strikes are very effective.

 

[rutherford]

I tend to think of a slap as a very loose movement where you wave the strike much like cracking a whip.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I tend to think of a slap as a very loose movement where you wave the strike much like cracking a whip.

I can't speak for the rest but the palm strike in Xingyi or Sanda I would not exactly call a slap

In sanda it has more similarity to a straight punch than a classic slap

 

[tellner]

good info thanks! and what do you mean by "plus just a few others" , what others?

I'm trying to remember. It's been few years. What comes to mind are increased chance of infection when you hit the mouth. The skin over a fist's knuckles is thin and stretched tight. Also, since many of his students are cops they've done some research and found that someone who has punching as his main weapon is more likely to clench his fist when he draws his firearm and have a negligent discharge.

 

[morph4me]

I've ended confrontations twice with palm heels, both times in a downward direction, one resulted in a broken nose and the other with the guys knees buckling, and him being semi conscious. I prefer, downward or hooking motions to straight strike type.

 

[Touch Of Death]

i have only ever got into 2 real fights , the first i won by knees and a hip throw from the clinch , the second i won with a double leg takedown then a (not so tight) rear naked choke until he calmed down and we apoligised to eachother , and i never intend to fight again. ive always hated the thought of punching because of the chances of damaging the knuckles or wrist. last night for the first time i punched the pads with grappling gloves on (the same the UFC ones) , it was ok until i did a hook , which hurt my wrist evertime.

i was wondering that if i ever get into another situation like the ones mentioned above, should i keep the same technique but use palm strikes instead of a closed fist? and is there a way i can use my palm with a hook? it feels a bit , well , strange using my palm in a hook , maybe im just not used to it

and are there any reasons not to use palm strikes? , and if i do use them should i practice first to get the right "feel"?


chris

Just keep your thumb up and hook like you are pulling a rope; elongate that circle and keep your elbow anchored.

 

[rutherford]

I can't speak for the rest but the palm strike in Xingyi or Sanda I would not exactly call a slap

In sanda it has more similarity to a straight punch than a classic slap

I was addressing the two posts above yours. :asian:

 

[chris_มวยไทย]

You weren't throwing your hooks correctly.

i think maybe you misunderstood me , i meant i was throwing the palm hooks (for use of a better name lol) with my fingers up not my regular hook , but that was wrong aswell , so why am i posting this:uhyeah:

 

[chris_มวยไทย]

every post in this thread has been very informative thank you all so much , you all deserve rep!

p.s. dont start posting here for free rep now i said that cos you wont get any unless its a very informative post

 

[rutherford]

i think maybe you misunderstood me , i meant i was throwing the palm hooks (for use of a better name lol) with my fingers up not my regular hook , but that was wrong aswell , so why am i posting this:uhyeah:

i think maybe you misunderstood me

If you hurt your wrist punching a pad, you didn't throw your hook correctly. Could also be that the pad holder wasn't holding correctly.

But, the human body isn't a pad. It's got curves, contains materials of different density, and it moves around.

 

[chris_มวยไทย]

i think maybe you misunderstood me

If you hurt your wrist punching a pad, you didn't throw your hook correctly. Could also be that the pad holder wasn't holding correctly.

But, the human body isn't a pad. It's got curves, contains materials of different density, and it moves around.

ah sorry about that lol , it doesnt usualy hurt , but whenver i used grappling gloves it did , but i found that if i moved my body aver so slightly forward so i was a bit closer then my wrist was sraight and it ddnt hurt , but it still hurt from the first few punches that i did wrong