Nunchucks in California for USAT Jr Olympics?

[TaekwondoDad]

My 6 year old daughter competed last weekend at the USAT/OMAC Ohio State and Regional Championships and qualified for the USAT Junior Olympics in San Jose in June. (Yes, I realize not hard to do when all you have to do is show up and breathe to qualify these days.)

She competed here in Ohio in the weapons competition with her speed-chucks and would like to do the same in San Jose. However, I have looked online and it appears nunchucks are illegal in California with an exception for schools that teach martial arts. Our plan is to fly into San Jose for the USAT event and then drive down to Los Angeles for the ATU National Championship a few days later.

Can anyone in California tell me if there is a legal way to travel to a competition in California with nunchucks?

 

[StudentCarl]

Interesting question. I emailed USAT and will post their reply.

 

[miguksaram]

My 6 year old daughter competed last weekend at the USAT/OMAC Ohio State and Regional Championships and qualified for the USAT Junior Olympics in San Jose in June. (Yes, I realize not hard to do when all you have to do is show up and breathe to qualify these days.)

She competed here in Ohio in the weapons competition with her speed-chucks and would like to do the same in San Jose. However, I have looked online and it appears nunchucks are illegal in California with an exception for schools that teach martial arts. Our plan is to fly into San Jose for the USAT event and then drive down to Los Angeles for the ATU National Championship a few days later.

Can anyone in California tell me if there is a legal way to travel to a competition in California with nunchucks?

you should be fine in a martial art competition. We have students who compete at Compete Nationals in Cali and use nunchaku and have never had a problem. As long as the chucks are stored in your luggage and not easily accessible while you are traveling between competitions you will be fine.

 

[andyjeffries]

you should be fine in a martial art competition. We have students who compete at Compete Nationals in Cali and use nunchaku and have never had a problem. As long as the chucks are stored in your luggage and not easily accessible while you are traveling between competitions you will be fine.

That's the same as UK law and is sensible so I would hope it would be fine. These laws exist to stop people carrying them around the street and doing serious damage. If they're at the bottom of a bag, in either a bag that is tied up or locked case (with the key on your keyring) then I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[ATC]

As long as you weapon is in the bag with your MA gear you should be fine. I have been pulled over before with Tonfa's, Sai's and Chuck's in my bag and had no problems.

The only time I ever had an issue is when I used said weapons on a would-be robber.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would not rely on the responses of people who are not attorneys to dispense legal advice. I am not an attorney either. I suggest you consult one. No one else is qualified to dispense that type of advice, and none of the people who post here (including myself) will step forward to pay your legal bills if you get into trouble. Just sayin'...

As a practical matter, I doubt you would have trouble, but in my general opinion, I'd sooner ship the weapons to myself at the hotel you intend to stay at than put them into checked luggage. You're not allowed to lock checked luggage anymore unless you use a TSA-approved lock (which they have a key for so they can open and inspect) and you may well find that your child's weapons are confiscated, stolen, or law enforcement notified.

Please note well this story:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...-declines-hear-airport-gun-arrest-appeal.html

Despite what 'common sense' might say, the man did not prevail in court. Period. The law considers 'dangerous weapons' in the same class as firearms in some states, so the fact that we're talking about nunchaku here and not firearms is of little consequence.

Personally, I'd want a letter, in writing, from the city attorney of the town I was visiting and I'd carry it with me. Period.

 

[miguksaram]

I would not rely on the responses of people who are not attorneys to dispense legal advice. I am not an attorney either. I suggest you consult one. No one else is qualified to dispense that type of advice, and none of the people who post here (including myself) will step forward to pay your legal bills if you get into trouble. Just sayin'...

As a practical matter, I doubt you would have trouble, but in my general opinion, I'd sooner ship the weapons to myself at the hotel you intend to stay at than put them into checked luggage. You're not allowed to lock checked luggage anymore unless you use a TSA-approved lock (which they have a key for so they can open and inspect) and you may well find that your child's weapons are confiscated, stolen, or law enforcement notified.

Please note well this story:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...-declines-hear-airport-gun-arrest-appeal.html

Despite what 'common sense' might say, the man did not prevail in court. Period. The law considers 'dangerous weapons' in the same class as firearms in some states, so the fact that we're talking about nunchaku here and not firearms is of little consequence.

Personally, I'd want a letter, in writing, from the city attorney of the town I was visiting and I'd carry it with me. Period.

While I agree that you should never take legal advice from anyone who is not an attorney, the fact of the matter is that if there were problems with people having them at tournaments, these tournaments would have been shut down years ago or the tournament director would have (at least should have) put on their flyer no nunchaku allowed.

As a person who has helped promote martial art tournaments in Illinois, where the law pertaining to nunchaku are the same as that in California, we are able to posses the weapons as a legal business that teaches self defense. This extends to any events which our school hosts such as tournaments or demos. Common sense has to prevail in that you are not walking down the street to a tournament swinging your nunchaku around like an idiot.

Some people have shipped their weapons to and from the hotel. Mostly they have been swords, bo's or other weapons that are could be easily damaged in flights. The drawback is that it will cost you some $$$ and there is not guarantee that they will not be damaged or lost.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I do not know of any legal way to have illegal weapons in the state of California.
that being said if you put the weapons in a storage bag that you can lock and have in your trunk and only take it out of the trunk to take in to compete and then to take into your home(hotel) and then back on the plane you will probably not run into troubles unless you do something else.
I think that having them for "artistic" reasons would probably be enough for most police officers to not worry about it, but you are definitely placing yourself at the mercy of the police officers good will, or just plain getting away with having them.

CALIFORNIA CODES
PENAL CODE
SECTION 12020-12040
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(3) The possession of a nunchaku on the premises of a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense.
(4) The manufacture of a nunchaku for sale to, or the sale of a nunchaku to, a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense.

so legally if you are not in a school, or transporting that nunchaku to a school in order to be sold then you are probably not in the right side of the law.

of course for how long?.... who knows......

In New York, attorney Jim Maloney has brought a federal constitutional challenge to the statutes that criminalize simple in-home possession of nunchaku for peaceful use in martial-arts practice or legal home defense. As of June 29, 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court has granted a writ of certiorari in favor of Maloney and has sent it back to the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit for "further consideration".

we will see....

also to the poster above...
when did common sense ever matter in laws? especially in California, and especially when they might able to get some money out of you?... lol

 

[Bill Mattocks]

While I agree that you should never take legal advice from anyone who is not an attorney, the fact of the matter is that if there were problems with people having them at tournaments, these tournaments would have been shut down years ago or the tournament director would have (at least should have) put on their flyer no nunchaku allowed.

The OP was asking about taking them on the plane. The tournament officials have no control over that.

"Our plan is to fly into San Jose for the USAT event and then drive down to Los Angeles for the ATU National Championship a few days later.

Can anyone in California tell me if there is a legal way to travel to a competition in California with nunchucks?"
​

As a person who has helped promote martial art tournaments in Illinois, where the law pertaining to nunchaku are the same as that in California, we are able to posses the weapons as a legal business that teaches self defense. This extends to any events which our school hosts such as tournaments or demos. Common sense has to prevail in that you are not walking down the street to a tournament swinging your nunchaku around like an idiot.

Common sense does not have to prevail, and often doesn't. That's just my opinion. But like your opinion, neither mine nor yours holds any water in court. In the end, it's up to cops, judges, and juries what is 'common sense' and what isn't. I would not ask someone to risk arrest based on what I thought was a pretty good idea or something that had never gotten me in trouble before.

Some people have shipped their weapons to and from the hotel. Mostly they have been swords, bo's or other weapons that are could be easily damaged in flights. The drawback is that it will cost you some $$$ and there is not guarantee that they will not be damaged or lost.

My experience with putting valuable things in unlocked checked luggage is that theft is rather distressingly common.

The TSA allows martial arts weapons to be transported as checked luggage. That does not mean it will arrive still inside the bag, or that the state of California will not decide to enforce its laws regarding martial arts weapon possession when you arrive:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#8

I found this link regarding the California law on nunchaku:

http://www.uplandmacenter.com/nunchakulaw.html

I see an exemption for possessing nunchaku IN THE SCHOOL where it is taught. Nothing at all about transportation of them, but a clear restriction on importation. I would not place bets on California utilizing common sense with regard to this.

 

[TaekwondoDad]

Thank you for all the responses.

When I read the California law, it appeared to me that individuals cannot even own a set of nunchucks and transport them to and from their school, let alone tournaments. The exceptions appear to allow them to be sold to a school and kept in a school, nothing more.

I doubt her kamas would receive a much better welcome and can't see her bo staff surviving the flight.

This may best be a learning experience.

I noted that the National Qualifiers do not appear to have weapons competition, which is perfect for Buffalo since NY doesn't even allow an exception for schools.

Perhaps the "larger" or "major" martial art organizations should refuse to hold tournaments in states that outlaw part of their arts. Of course with the large markets in NY and CA and the population of martial artists this would never happen.

 

[miguksaram]

The OP was asking about taking them on the plane. The tournament officials have no control over that.

"Our plan is to fly into San Jose for the USAT event and then drive down to Los Angeles for the ATU National Championship a few days later.

Can anyone in California tell me if there is a legal way to travel to a competition in California with nunchucks?"
​

Common sense does not have to prevail, and often doesn't. That's just my opinion. But like your opinion, neither mine nor yours holds any water in court. In the end, it's up to cops, judges, and juries what is 'common sense' and what isn't. I would not ask someone to risk arrest based on what I thought was a pretty good idea or something that had never gotten me in trouble before.





My experience with putting valuable things in unlocked checked luggage is that theft is rather distressingly common.

The TSA allows martial arts weapons to be transported as checked luggage. That does not mean it will arrive still inside the bag, or that the state of California will not decide to enforce its laws regarding martial arts weapon possession when you arrive:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#8

I found this link regarding the California law on nunchaku:

http://www.uplandmacenter.com/nunchakulaw.html

I see an exemption for possessing nunchaku IN THE SCHOOL where it is taught. Nothing at all about transportation of them, but a clear restriction on importation. I would not place bets on California utilizing common sense with regard to this.

If the big question is the plane, then just call and see their rules. You will have to put them as check in. Our team has done this time and time again with nunchaku, swords, bo, tonfa, etc. You just need to call the airline for their policy on it.

Think what you want overall but I am telling you that this is how it is and has been for many years. Our team has been to California numerous times for open martial art tournaments and we have never had a problem. I guess our team along with 100's of other out of state competitors have just been lucky.

TKD-dad, honestly don't sweat it. Call the airline ask about their policy. Once in California just keep them packed away until going to the tournament.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Once in California just keep them packed away until going to the tournament.

Are you an attorney licensed to practice in California?

If he gets arrested, will you pay his legal bills?

That's why I don't think it's a good idea to give or take legal advice over the internet.

 

[miguksaram]

Are you an attorney licensed to practice in California?

If he gets arrested, will you pay his legal bills?

That's why I don't think it's a good idea to give or take legal advice over the internet.

Whatever...1000's of people in go to California each year to do tournaments which involve weapon divisions and arrests are not made outside of the rare few who are just idiots doing something stupid.

I'm telling you from experience, not pulling the answer out of my ***. Not giving him legal advice. Giving him advice based on my experience in being there. Not an opinion, but actual first hand experience of what I have witnessed. Do you do weapon forms? Have you competed in the state of California in a weapons division? Do you even compete for that matter? Just telling him the way things are and have been for some time now.

So if it is illegal to have tournaments in California in which people from out of state could participate with nunchaku, then the CPD should start standing outside the door to each event, because they could make a killing and clean up their debt writing out the citations.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Whatever...1000's of people in go to California each year to do tournaments which involve weapon divisions and arrests are not made outside of the rare few who are just idiots doing something stupid.

I'm telling you from experience, not pulling the answer out of my ***. Not giving him legal advice. Giving him advice based on my experience in being there. Not an opinion, but actual first hand experience of what I have witnessed. Do you do weapon forms? Have you competed in the state of California in a weapons division? Do you even compete for that matter? Just telling him the way things are and have been for some time now.

So if it is illegal to have tournaments in California in which people from out of state could participate with nunchaku, then the CPD should start standing outside the door to each event, because they could make a killing and clean up their debt writing out the citations.

It is not illegal to have tournaments in California. It is illegal to possess, or to import, nunchaku in California, to the extent that I can determine.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

That clear enough for you?

There are exemptions:

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
...
(3) The possession of a nunchaku on the premises of a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense.
(4) The manufacture of a nunchaku for sale to, or the sale of a nunchaku to, a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense.

What you are doing is giving legal advice for the O/P to break the law, based on your experience that he will probably get away with it.

I think giving or taking legal advice is unwise, and my opinion is that it is to be avoided.

You can say 'whatever' as much as you like; the fact remains that it is illegal in California and if the O/P takes your advice and DOES end up in trouble, you're not going to step up and pay his legal bills, are you?

 

[Tony49]

It is not illegal to have tournaments in California. It is illegal to possess, or to import, nunchaku in California, to the extent that I can determine.

That clear enough for you?

There are exemptions:

What you are doing is giving legal advice for the O/P to break the law, based on your experience that he will probably get away with it.

I think giving or taking legal advice is unwise, and my opinion is that it is to be avoided.

You can say 'whatever' as much as you like; the fact remains that it is illegal in California and if the O/P takes your advice and DOES end up in trouble, you're not going to step up and pay his legal bills, are you?

Bill is right just because they don't enforce the law doesn't mean it is okay to break it.

By the way, the two tournaments you mention do they even have a weapons form division?

 

[mango.man]

I find people that post on martial arts message boards for legal and medical advice to be a strange bunch.

"I was at practice last night and I kicked and I heard a loud pop and now I can't put any pressure on my right foot. What should I do?"

Is just a bad as

"I am going to take a weapon into a state where it is a felony to possess such a weapon outside of a martial arts school. Do you think I might get in trouble?"

Well chances are you are not going to get caught with said weapon, unless you give a cop a reason to stop you and search your car etc. Of course it is always possible that someone could do something stupid in a car similar to yours, prompting the police to pull you over and search your car thinking you are that other suspect. Then when they find the your illegal weapon, regardless of if you are the suspect they were looking for, you get to go to jail on a felony.

As for whomever it was that said that the law is not enforced. Well I have had the pleasure of enforcing this exact law on an occasion or two, back in my law enforcement days oh so many years ago.

 

[miguksaram]

As for whomever it was that said that the law is not enforced. Well I have had the pleasure of enforcing this exact law on an occasion or two, back in my law enforcement days oh so many years ago.

Never said that the law was not enforced. What I did say was that it is very unlikely that it will be enforced at a tournament. BTW...did you bust a lot of kids at a tournament or on the street?

 

[Tony49]

I find people that post on martial arts message boards for legal and medical advice to be a strange bunch.

"I was at practice last night and I kicked and I heard a loud pop and now I can't put any pressure on my right foot. What should I do?"

Is just a bad as

"I am going to take a weapon into a state where it is a felony to possess such a weapon outside of a martial arts school. Do you think I might get in trouble?"

Well chances are you are not going to get caught with said weapon, unless you give a cop a reason to stop you and search your car etc. Of course it is always possible that someone could do something stupid in a car similar to yours, prompting the police to pull you over and search your car thinking you are that other suspect. Then when they find the your illegal weapon, regardless of if you are the suspect they were looking for, you get to go to jail on a felony.

As for whomever it was that said that the law is not enforced. Well I have had the pleasure of enforcing this exact law on an occasion or two, back in my law enforcement days oh so many years ago.

You could always take them apart and have two individual sticks and then at the tournament put them back together. However, you are still probably breaking the law since it is not a martial art school.

 

[mango.man]

Never said that the law was not enforced. What I did say was that it is very unlikely that it will be enforced at a tournament. BTW...did you bust a lot of kids at a tournament or on the street?

At the tournament venue, you are probably right. Much like shooting a gun at a firing range would not get you into trouble as the cops aren't going to kick in any doors and start rounding people up.

However getting to and from the tournament / firing range is another story. You get stopped by a cop and he has PC to search your car and he finds the weapon under the drivers seat (be it the nunchaku or a gun) and you are busted likely no matter how many times you plead I was on my way to a tournament / firing range and I am from out of state and didn't know.

 

[jks9199]

Whatever...1000's of people in go to California each year to do tournaments which involve weapon divisions and arrests are not made outside of the rare few who are just idiots doing something stupid.

I'm telling you from experience, not pulling the answer out of my ***. Not giving him legal advice. Giving him advice based on my experience in being there. Not an opinion, but actual first hand experience of what I have witnessed. Do you do weapon forms? Have you competed in the state of California in a weapons division? Do you even compete for that matter? Just telling him the way things are and have been for some time now.

So if it is illegal to have tournaments in California in which people from out of state could participate with nunchaku, then the CPD should start standing outside the door to each event, because they could make a killing and clean up their debt writing out the citations.

Bill's got a valid point. Let's look at the issue another way.

From lots of people's experience, you can drive about 10 mph over the limit in most places and not be stopped or ticketed. That's not the same as saying it's legal -- and if you do get stopped and ticketed, all that experience won't get you out of the fine.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a CA LEO. I don't know what the law says or what the realities of the tournament scene there is. I will tell you that, if I wanted to, I could absolutely arrest you for carrying a pair of nunchaku in a bag on your person, in Virginia. Would I unless you're being really stupid, if you're on the way to a tournament or class? No. But that is NOT one of the exceptions listed in the code.

That's the danger of getting legal guidance over the internet. The OP would probably be well advised to contact law enforcement in California; they can probably give some solid guidance or refer him to a reliable source of guidance.